Does the right to life exist?

[mac]

lol... ok, you want to start digging yourself into a hole again?

That would imply that I did so at some other point. I did not, nor am I now.

 

[mac]

Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So is this genocide racial, ethnic, or religious?

oh, you misunderstood....again.

 

[Removable Mind]

It's not entirely a philosophical debate. The simple truth is that the offspring of two humans is human, and that should be enough (but currently isn't) to extend basic human rights to it.

Mac,

I think you can agree that we can't control others sexual behaviors. Sex isn't a function of human behavior that's for the sole purpose of procreating. If sex was for proliferating the species only...there would be a hell of a lot less people.

Obviously, humans do produce human offspring. But until that offspring is kicking, screaming, and crying...it's not a legal person despite your opinion that a fetus should be.

Personally, I'm pro-choice for a variety of debatable reasons.

But, there might be a solution that may appease pro-life folks.

1. Make all types of abortions illegal.

2. Create a BABY DRAFT BOARD that is very similar to the military draft.

3. All Pro-Lifers must register with the BDB and he or she will be issued a draft number.

4. When a woman conceives and she doesn't want to have the baby...she notifies the Baby Draft Board.

5. The Baby Draft Board will have daily/weekly/monthly (whatever period is designated) drawings for draftees.

6. The Pro-Life Draftees selected with be responsible for the following:

(a) Become their drawn child's adopted parent
(b) Pay all prenatal expenses
(c) Pay all hospital expenses
(d) Pay all postnatal expenses
(e) Be responsible for all expense incurred until the child reaches 18 years of age or has graduated from high school, which ever comes first.

As unpleasant as that suggestion might be. I have to go back to my original comment. We, (you, me, everybody) are powerless over the sexual behaviors of others. Consequently, there will be unwanted pregnancies. Society is forced to deal with that issue because of laws that make it a social problem.

If all abortions are outlawed...would a solution be to imprison both the father and mother of an unwanted pregnancy should they (he/she/both) decide that abortion is the best option for them? America already has the largest prison population in the world.

If you don't mind me asking. Is your reasoning for not believing in the right of a woman to have an abortion related to your religion or just a personal reason?

And, what do you perceive as a possible solution to unwanted pregnancies, excluding stop having sex?

 

[SheWolf]

It doesn't matter, It's wrong and a fundamental violation of human rights. It will continue to occur, though, and that doesn't mean it's not a violation of human rights.

If you want to say it's a human rights violation that's one thing, but don't ignore what "genocide" actually means...

 

[SheWolf]

oh, you misunderstood....again.

Maybe you should explain yourself better than Mac, or use words as they are defined in the dictionary...

 

[mac]

Mac,

I think you can agree that we can't control others sexual behaviors. Sex isn't a function of human behavior that's for the sole purpose of procreating. If sex was for proliferating the species only...there would be a hell of a lot less people.

actually the biological and evolutionarily developed purpose is procreation....the side effects of the sensations causing us to wish to procreate have turned into more as we have evolved.

Obviously, humans do produce human offspring. But until that offspring is kicking, screaming, and crying...it's not a legal person despite your opinion that a fetus should be.

This is injecting subjectivity where it need not be. You are adding criteria.

Personally, I'm pro-choice for a variety of debatable reasons.

But, there might be a solution that may appease pro-life folks.

1. Make all types of abortions illegal.

2. Create a BABY DRAFT BOARD that is very similar to the military draft.

3. All Pro-Lifers must register with the BDB and he or she will be issued a draft number.

4. When a woman conceives and she doesn't want to have the baby...she notifies the Baby Draft Board.

5. The Baby Draft Board will have daily/weekly/monthly (whatever period is designated) drawings for draftees.

6. The Pro-Life Draftees selected with be responsible for the following:

(a) Become their drawn child's adopted parent
(b) Pay all prenatal expenses
(c) Pay all hospital expenses
(d) Pay all postnatal expenses
(e) Be responsible for all expense incurred until the child reaches 18 years of age or has graduated from high school, which ever comes first.

As unpleasant as that suggestion might be.

I like it. A lot.....I'll bet you'll find a lot of us would vote for such a plan. The problem is that it is generally not infants that have trouble getting adopted.

I have to go back to my original comment. We, (you, me, everybody) are powerless over the sexual behaviors of others. Consequently, there will be unwanted pregnancies. Society is forced to deal with that issue because of laws that make it a social problem.

I believe there will/would be less unwanted pregnancies if there weren't an "easy" way out.

If all abortions are outlawed...would a solution be to imprison both the father and mother of an unwanted pregnancy should they (he/she/both) decide that abortion is the best option for them? America already has the largest prison population in the world.

The law should treat them equally.

If you don't mind me asking. Is your reasoning for not believing in the right of a woman to have an abortion related to your religion or just a personal reason?

Both, but honestly I was pro-life before my religion mattered much to me, and I'm still not what one would call devout.

And, what do you perceive as a possible solution to unwanted pregnancies, excluding stop having sex?

Education.

 

[mac]

If you want to say it's a human rights violation that's one thing, but don't ignore what "genocide" actually means...

I'm not ignoring it in the least. But what genocide is other than "a human rights violation" is irrelevant to my point. Not unimportant...irrelevant to MY point. Mi capisci?

 

[mac]

Maybe you should explain yourself better than Mac, or use words as they are defined in the dictionary...

I believe you found genocide in the dictionary.....but to make it easy, change genocide to rape in my original statement.

 

[Bodi]

You could always ask me more questions instead of making fun of me. It's a shame that you turn away so easily from something that makes you uncomfortable.

If you can believe that a fetus is a conscious, viable life form that deserves personhood, then I don't see why my view is anymore far fetched.

Furthermore, I don't see how such a consciousness could not affect the mother in some way, especially given that it is connected to her directly inside of her and is growing from the materials of her body.

I find it incredibly ironic that you are dismissing my beliefs yet you take your own to be so sacrosanct.

I was being sarcastic and joking around. I thought that it would be taken with a spoonful of fun even though the topic is serious. Apparently it wasn't. I apologize.

Back to the debate though... why do you think that I might be uncomfortable. I can assure you that I am just fine and dandy instead...

I don't think that a is a conscious life form, though it is a valid life form. The two need not be together in order to make the life valuable. What I am dismissing is that you think that a fetus might actually make a conscious chose to abort itself, even if it had that consciousness, to think that it might want to abort its own life is amazingly bizarre.

 

[mac]

I am just fine and dandy instead...

You're a little full of yourself aren't you?

 

[Bodi]

You're a little full of yourself aren't you?

I am my own best fan.

 

[SheWolf]

I'm not ignoring it in the least. But what genocide is other than "a human rights violation" is irrelevant to my point. Not unimportant...irrelevant to MY point. Mi capisci?

Rape and human trafficking are also "human rights violations" but neither of those qualify as "genocide"...

 

[mac]

Rape and human trafficking are also "human rights violations" but neither of those qualify as "genocide"...

You just don't get it, do you?

Simply because they keep happening, and will continue to happen, does not diminish the right itself, nor does it indicate the right does not exist.

 

[SheWolf]

You just don't get it, do you?

Simply because they keep happening, and will continue to happen, does not diminish the right itself, nor does it indicate the right does not exist.

I am not talking about rights... I was talking about your use of the word "genocide."

 

[SheWolf]

Rights and where they come from is just a philosophy anyway...

 

[mac]

I am not talking about rights... I was talking about your use of the word "genocide."

You obviously don't understand why I used it where I did.

 

[mac]

Rights and where they come from is just a philosophy anyway...

So, you have no rights?

 

[SheWolf]

So, you have no rights?

It's just a philosophy...

 

[SheWolf]

Philosophy of human rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rights (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Human Rights (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

You're really asking for a philosophical debate, and I don't want to get into it...

 

[mac]

It's just a philosophy...

That's not an answer......you don't have any rights? Or do you understand that philosophies are as real as anything else?

 

[SheWolf]

You obviously don't understand why I used it where I did.

Explain it better than Mac

 

[mac]

Philosophy of human rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rights (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Human Rights (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

You're really asking for a philosophical debate, and I don't want to get into it...

No, I'm not....do you or do you not have rights? Yes, or no, simple.

 

[SheWolf]

That's not an answer......you don't have any rights? Or do you understand that philosophies are as real as anything else?

Philosophical concepts are not real or fake... You can't prove they are real. You can believe you're rights come from nature, from the government, or from God... It really has no impact on reality.

 

[SheWolf]

No, I'm not....do you or do you not have rights? Yes, or no, simple.

No... rights are a social construct. They come from nowhere. They aren't natural or inalienable.

 

[mac]

That isn't enough to stop millions of women and young girls from aborting..

or genocide from occurring.

Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So is this genocide racial, ethnic, or religious?

It doesn't matter, It's wrong and a fundamental violation of human rights. It will continue to occur, though, and that doesn't mean it's not a violation of human rights.

If you want to say it's a human rights violation that's one thing, but don't ignore what "genocide" actually means...

I'm not ignoring it in the least. But what genocide is other than "a human rights violation" is irrelevant to my point. Not unimportant...irrelevant to MY point. Mi capisci?

I believe you found genocide in the dictionary.....but to make it easy, change genocide to rape in my original statement.

Rape and human trafficking are also "human rights violations" but neither of those qualify as "genocide"...

You just don't get it, do you?

Simply because they keep happening, and will continue to happen, does not diminish the right itself, nor does it indicate the right does not exist.

I am not talking about rights... I was talking about your use of the word "genocide."

You obviously don't understand why I used it where I did.

Explain it better than Mac

You're claim that the right to life will not stop women from aborting ( I assume you meant illegally) is no different than the right to life not stopping genocide (or rape/murder/etc) from happening. Neither one of them occurring affect in anyway that the right exists. This isn't a statement about genocide itself except as another example of a violation of the basic human right to life.