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Does Eternal Fire Mean Eternal Torment?

devildavid said:
It seems that perfection is not a goal at all, because there is no way to know if it has been achieved.
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To Christians it’s God’s determination that matters and an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent entity is certainly able to make that determination.

So it can be known to the entity requireed for it it to be known.

Does that mean people shouldn’t attempt it? There is also man’s contract with his fellow man to consider. So, if only in that regard alone, there is reason to attempt to do right by each other. Why? Because we want that from others and we can’t ethically ask for something we are unwilling to give.
 
ModernDiogenes said:
To Christians it’s God’s determination that matters and an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent entity is certainly able to make that determination.

So it can be known to the entity requireed for it it to be known.

Does that mean people shouldn’t attempt it? There is also man’s contract with his fellow man to consider. So, if only in that regard alone, there is reason to attempt to do right by each other. Why? Because we want that from others and we can’t ethically ask for something we are unwilling to give.
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If we depend on god to make a determination we can never know what it is because we are not god. We can’t ever know the mind of god. So we have no idea what it means to attempt it. No one can agree what it means to do right by each other. We all have our own subjective ideas about what that entails.
 
Daisy said:
If you never do anything wrong/sin, if you never get sick or grow old and die, you're perfect...
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The problem is that there is no objective definition of what is wrong/sin. Even deli people can’t agree on one. Living forever isn’t what makes anyone perfect, it just makes them eternal.
 
devildavid said:
If we depend on god to make a determination we can never know what it is because we are not god. We can’t ever know the mind of god. So we have no idea what it means to attempt it. No one can agree what it means to do right by each other. We all have our own subjective ideas about what that entails.
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God’s word spells out precisely what is required by believers: Faith, adherence, good works.

Same with our contract to each other: Golden Rule Ethical Thinking. Do unto others as you’d have them do unto you.

At its root it’s all rather simple.
 
ModernDiogenes said:
God’s word spells out precisely what is required by believers: Faith, adherence, good works.

Same with our contract to each other: Golden Rule Ethical Thinking. Do unto others as you’d have them do unto you.

At its root it’s all rather simple.
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God spells out nothing at all. Those three words spell out nothing at all. They are entirely subjective. It isn’t all that simple. How do I treat those who hurt me? How do I treat drug addicts? How do I treat criminals? How does a sociopath interpret the golden rule?
 
Daisy said:
He knew the consequences...Jehovah's command was simple, He only asked one thing of him and He told Him exactly what would happen if he did disobey...

“From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.  But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die." Genesis 2:16,17
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How could he know that those consequences were bad when he didn't know what good was?
 
Daisy said:
What does the Bible actually say about Eternal Fire? Is it a literal place of unending torment, or does scripture reveal something different? In this video, we dive deep into the Bible, challenge traditional views of Hell, and reveal the truth about God’s judgment. Join us as we discover the truth about what Eternal Fire truly means.

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It doesn't matter because there is no eternal life.
 
Questerr said:
How could he know that those consequences were bad when he didn't know what good was?
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He did know what good was...everything was good including humans until they sinned...

"After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good." Genesis 1:31
 
dairyair said:
Nothing at all with god making imperfect humans from the git go.
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So, tell me...how would you define a perfect human, if not being created without sin?
 
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Daisy said:
He did know what good was...everything was good including humans until they sinned...

"After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good." Genesis 1:31
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That quote shows that *god* knew what good was, not Adam. Adam did not gain knowledge of good until eating from the tree. So he couldn't know doing what god wanted was good and that not doing it was bad.
 
Daisy said:
Do imperfect humans know everything? No...
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We have fully mapped the human genome. We know what every gene does. So where is the gene for sin? You claimed sin is genetic. Back up your claim, or admit you lied (aka bore false witness, aka deliberately sinned making you a false Christian by your own standard).
 
Questerr said:
We have fully mapped the human genome. We know what every gene does. So where is the gene for sin? You claimed sin is genetic. Back up your claim, or admit you lied (aka bore false witness, aka deliberately sinned making you a false Christian by your own standard).
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I stand by what I said...humans do not know everything...they make think they've fully mapped the human genome...that means nothing...tomorrow they'll state something different...that's how science works...what is claimed today changes tomorrow...nothing is certain...
 
Questerr said:
That quote shows that *god* knew what good was, not Adam. Adam did not gain knowledge of good until eating from the tree. So he couldn't know doing what god wanted was good and that not doing it was bad.
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And Adam experienced good...
 
devildavid said:
God spells out nothing at all.
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To you, maybe. That’s fine. Christians think otherwise, and that’s fine as well.

devildavid said:
Those three words spell out nothing at all.
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I’d disagree. The are pretty straight forward.

devildavid said:
They are entirely subjective. It isn’t all that simple. How do I treat those who hurt me? How do I treat drug addicts? How do I treat criminals? How does a sociopath interpret the golden rule?
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Faith means to believe even without proof in pocket. Trust in God. That’s straight Fowarding

Adherence means obedience. That’s straight forward.

Good works means to do right by others in tangible ways. That’s straight forward.

There is nothing subjective about it.

How you treat one who hurts you depends on the hurt inflicted. You absorb what is absorbable, you defend your life and limb.

Now, I’m not that good a Christian, though I’m trying, so ( follow a more secular -stern in regard to harm done to me. I follow Golden Ruie Ethical Thinking on it. Harm done to me receives a measured, practical and proportional response. Unless one is trying to kill me, in which case I’m likely to stop them first and that could result in death.

You treat drug addicts by getting them help, if they’ll let you. You treat criminals by segregating them from civil society and attempting to rehabilitate them.

Sociopaths dint interpret the Golden Rule. That they can’t is what makes them sociopaths.
 
Daisy said:
I stand by what I said...humans do not know everything...they make think they've fully mapped the human genome...that means nothing...tomorrow they'll state something different...that's how science works...what is claimed today changes tomorrow...nothing is certain...
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If you are claiming sin is genetic, then demonstrate which gene controls sin. You are making a claim, you back it up.

Or admit you are deliberately lying.
 
Daisy said:
So, tell me...how would you define a perfect human, if not being created without sin?
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Perfect humans never existed and can't.
What is perfect? That's a subjective term.

What is sin? That only is a term in xtian religions.
 
ModernDiogenes said:
To you, maybe. That’s fine. Christians think otherwise, and that’s fine as well.



I’d disagree. The are pretty straight forward.



Faith means to believe even without proof in pocket. Trust in God. That’s straight Fowarding

Adherence means obedience. That’s straight forward.

Good works means to do right by others in tangible ways. That’s straight forward.

There is nothing subjective about it.

How you treat one who hurts you depends on the hurt inflicted. You absorb what is absorbable, you defend your life and limb.

Now, I’m not that good a Christian, though I’m trying, so ( follow a more secular -stern in regard to harm done to me. I follow Golden Ruie Ethical Thinking on it. Harm done to me receives a measured, practical and proportional response. Unless one is trying to kill me, in which case I’m likely to stop them first and that could result in death.

You treat drug addicts by getting them help, if they’ll let you. You treat criminals by segregating them from civil society and attempting to rehabilitate them.

Sociopaths dint interpret the Golden Rule. That they can’t is what makes them sociopaths.
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Obey what? That's the subjective part.

Do right how? And by what measure, that's the subjective part.
 
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