Does anything believe team-Trump on Russia, esp. the Trump Tower meeting?

[Mach]

Giuliani is revealing what he says will soon break, that there was in fact a pre-Trump Tower meeting, where they discussed the Trump Tower meeting. Now he saying collusion isn't a crime, and that Trump didn't *attend* the meeting (which meeting? Who claimed he attended?) Of course, a pre-meeting about a meeting so unimportant that Don Jr., Manafort, Kushner attended but didn't tell DJT? Sure.

Since 2106, here are the highlights about Russian contacts, and how just focusing on one such Russian meeting the story evolves constantly.

Hope Hicks: There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign."

Sarah Sanders: to the best of our knowledge, no contacts took place [with Russians]
Don Jr: The meeting with Russians was brief, introductory, about adoption (crafted by Trump!)

Doh Jr. emails: Russian meeting was about dirt on Hillary and involved Manafort, Kushner, Don Jr. and a number of Russians, and Goldstone (Trump friend from pageant Moscow)but really was about adoption. Don Jr makes 3 blocked calls after meeting (1 before?)- says he doesn't remember who he called

Cohen story breaks: Cohen claims that in pre-Trump tower meeting, Trump was told about the Trump Tower meeting and approved

Giulliani seems to prepare for the worst:

“He did not participate in any meeting about the Russia transaction ... the president did not,” Giuliani said. “And the other people at the meeting that [Cohen] claims he had without the president about it say he was never there.”“He did not participate in any meeting about the Russia transaction ... the president did not,” Giuliani said. “And the other people at the meeting that [Cohen] claims he had without the president about it say he was never there.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...osts-on-trump-russia-collusion/?noredirect=on

I don't see how any takes that White House seriously at this point. Why do we even need to debate it, they have changed it so much they have credibility.

 

[trouble13]

Giuliani is revealing what he says will soon break, that there was in fact a pre-Trump Tower meeting, where they discussed the Trump Tower meeting. Now he saying collusion isn't a crime, and that Trump didn't *attend* the meeting (which meeting? Who claimed he attended?) Of course, a pre-meeting about a meeting so unimportant that Don Jr., Manafort, Kushner attended but didn't tell DJT? Sure.

Since 2106, here are the highlights about Russian contacts, and how just focusing on one such Russian meeting the story evolves constantly.

Hope Hicks: There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign."

Sarah Sanders: to the best of our knowledge, no contacts took place [with Russians]
Don Jr: The meeting with Russians was brief, introductory, about adoption (crafted by Trump!)

Doh Jr. emails: Russian meeting was about dirt on Hillary and involved Manafort, Kushner, Don Jr. and a number of Russians, and Goldstone (Trump friend from pageant Moscow)but really was about adoption. Don Jr makes 3 blocked calls after meeting (1 before?)- says he doesn't remember who he called

Cohen story breaks: Cohen claims that in pre-Trump tower meeting, Trump was told about the Trump Tower meeting and approved

Giulliani seems to prepare for the worst:

“He did not participate in any meeting about the Russia transaction ... the president did not,” Giuliani said. “And the other people at the meeting that [Cohen] claims he had without the president about it say he was never there.”“He did not participate in any meeting about the Russia transaction ... the president did not,” Giuliani said. “And the other people at the meeting that [Cohen] claims he had without the president about it say he was never there.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...osts-on-trump-russia-collusion/?noredirect=on

I don't see how any takes that White House seriously at this point. Why do we even need to debate it, they have changed it so much they have credibility.

Both sides have credibility issues.

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[Mach]

Both sides have credibility issues.

Both side have fine people eh? Looks pretty one-sided to me. And there is motive.
What a transparent presidency!

 

[Rexedgar]

Both sides have credibility issues.

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There is only one “side” in charge at this time.

 

[Mach]

There is only one “side” in charge at this time.

There is also only one side under criminal investigation.

There is also only one side that has already been indicted on felonies.

Lot's of "one sides", how strange!

 

[Felis Leo]

Giuliani is revealing what he says will soon break, that there was in fact a pre-Trump Tower meeting, where they discussed the Trump Tower meeting. Now he saying collusion isn't a crime, and that Trump didn't *attend* the meeting (which meeting? Who claimed he attended?) Of course, a pre-meeting about a meeting so unimportant that Don Jr., Manafort, Kushner attended but didn't tell DJT? Sure.

Since 2106, here are the highlights about Russian contacts, and how just focusing on one such Russian meeting the story evolves constantly.

Hope Hicks: There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign."

Sarah Sanders: to the best of our knowledge, no contacts took place [with Russians]
Don Jr: The meeting with Russians was brief, introductory, about adoption (crafted by Trump!)

Doh Jr. emails: Russian meeting was about dirt on Hillary and involved Manafort, Kushner, Don Jr. and a number of Russians, and Goldstone (Trump friend from pageant Moscow)but really was about adoption. Don Jr makes 3 blocked calls after meeting (1 before?)- says he doesn't remember who he called

Cohen story breaks: Cohen claims that in pre-Trump tower meeting, Trump was told about the Trump Tower meeting and approved

Giulliani seems to prepare for the worst:

“He did not participate in any meeting about the Russia transaction ... the president did not,” Giuliani said. “And the other people at the meeting that [Cohen] claims he had without the president about it say he was never there.”“He did not participate in any meeting about the Russia transaction ... the president did not,” Giuliani said. “And the other people at the meeting that [Cohen] claims he had without the president about it say he was never there.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...osts-on-trump-russia-collusion/?noredirect=on

I don't see how any takes that White House seriously at this point. Why do we even need to debate it, they have changed it so much they have credibility.

Nope. I do not believe anything the President says on this matter, or take his public statements at face value. He has not one ounce of credibility on this subject. That having been said, I am not a position to believe anyone on this matter, because we do not have the full set of facts. What we have is a mountain of speculation, and no one who is not self-interested in some manner to tell the full, unvarnished truth. I do not trust the Democrats or their propaganda organs within the mainstream media; I do not trust the president or his coterie; I certainly do not trust Cohen; I do not trust the apparatchiks in the Washington bureaucracy leaking information like sieves to the press. Washington is a gigantic diseased cesspool with all the above-mentioned parties buzzing around it like fat bluebottle flies, eating, breathing and swimming in sewage, but each asking us to give them our confidence. For my part, I don't trust any of them, and anyone who does is going to be the sorrier for it.

 

[Mach]

Nope. I do not believe anything the President says on this matter, or take his public statements at face value. He has not one ounce of credibility on this subject. That having been said, I am not a position to believe anyone on this matter, because we do not have the facts. What we have is a mountain of speculation

See but you're objectively wrong, it's not all speculation. Most of the quotes you can look up via that link, from the Trump White House.
If you claim you believe no reporting, then that's absurd, and I would urge you to find a new nation because in the U.S. journalism is one of the few checks on government power.

The Trump narrative has factually converged on what many originally thought was obvious, that Trump is complicit.

For my part, I don't trust any of them

Baby out with the bath water.

If that's the case, how did you make an informed vote? If you trust no reporting source, what did you vote based on...ESP? The candidate's appearance?

It looks like our worst case assumption about Trump, has steadily, inexorably, due to the good reporting from a wide range of journalists, been converging on our worst case assumptions.
We should have removed Trump from office shortly after his election, we'd have all been bettor off for it. No CEO could stay for more than a few months under accusations like this...no employee...only POTUS, and that's a crying shame.

 

[trouble13]

Both side have fine people eh? Looks pretty one-sided to me. And there is motive.
What a transparent presidency!

I have no idea what your going on about. I'm pointing out that both Trump and his team along with those investigating him have credibility problems. I would think that everyone could agree on that much.

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[Middle_Ground]

Lol I believe Juliani he said there was a 2nd meeting we seem to know nothing about.
Also he said so what even if there was collusion (the ***** word for conspiracy) it's not a crime.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I wouldn't believe the Trump Team if they told us water is wet and piss is yellow.

Trump Team and credibility is an oxymoron.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Lol I believe Juliani he said there was a 2nd meeting we seem to know nothing about.
Also he said so what even if there was collusion (the ***** word for conspiracy) it's not a crime.

There has to be an underlying crime for collusion/conspiracy to be a crime. In this case attempting to work with foreign powers to influence the US election

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Giuliani is revealing what he says will soon break, that there was in fact a pre-Trump Tower meeting, where they discussed the Trump Tower meeting. Now he saying collusion isn't a crime, and that Trump didn't *attend* the meeting (which meeting? Who claimed he attended?) Of course, a pre-meeting about a meeting so unimportant that Don Jr., Manafort, Kushner attended but didn't tell DJT? Sure.

Since 2106, here are the highlights about Russian contacts, and how just focusing on one such Russian meeting the story evolves constantly.

Hope Hicks: There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign."

Sarah Sanders: to the best of our knowledge, no contacts took place [with Russians]
Don Jr: The meeting with Russians was brief, introductory, about adoption (crafted by Trump!)

Doh Jr. emails: Russian meeting was about dirt on Hillary and involved Manafort, Kushner, Don Jr. and a number of Russians, and Goldstone (Trump friend from pageant Moscow)but really was about adoption. Don Jr makes 3 blocked calls after meeting (1 before?)- says he doesn't remember who he called

Cohen story breaks: Cohen claims that in pre-Trump tower meeting, Trump was told about the Trump Tower meeting and approved

Giulliani seems to prepare for the worst:

“He did not participate in any meeting about the Russia transaction ... the president did not,” Giuliani said. “And the other people at the meeting that [Cohen] claims he had without the president about it say he was never there.”“He did not participate in any meeting about the Russia transaction ... the president did not,” Giuliani said. “And the other people at the meeting that [Cohen] claims he had without the president about it say he was never there.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...osts-on-trump-russia-collusion/?noredirect=on

I don't see how any takes that White House seriously at this point. Why do we even need to debate it, they have changed it so much they have credibility.

No rational person believes the president anymore. We all know Trump lied and lied and is still lying. Conservatives are now shamelessly lying when they accept Trump's denials and claims that Cohen is lying. If Huma Abedin turned on Hillary and claimed Hillary was lying would these conservatives believes Hillary's claims that it's really Huma who is lying? It's just absurd at this point. The president's coconspirators are turning on him so the only thing left is to deny, deny, deny.

I don't think liberals would ever stoop this low. It seems liberals are just more ethical. Anyone who says the believe Trump is a liar. The sky is blue and Trump is lying.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Let's not forget that perjury is a crime. Don Jr. committed perjury when he lied to protect his father. Trump knew of Don Jr.'s testimony, he knew it was false and did nothing to correct it.

Trump is guilty of suborning perjury. He dictated the false letter for Don Jr. and had Don Jr. lie for him before Congress.

Trump should resign. Enough with the lies already.

 

[roughdraft274]

I have no idea what your going on about. I'm pointing out that both Trump and his team along with those investigating him have credibility problems. I would think that everyone could agree on that much.

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Well that's just false. The only credibility problem I've heard of for the investigators is that one of them, who was pulled off the case a long ass time ago, texted some mean comments about numerous politicians, Trump included. And he was pulled from the case basically because of an overabundance of precaution so that the investigation was free of even the appearance of impropriety. Other than that, from what I can see the investigation has been essentially as pure as the wind driven snow.

 

[Helix]

Does anything believe team-Trump on Russia, esp. the Trump Tower meeting?

no. as a rule of thumb, i consider anything Trump or his team says to be a lie. it works well most of the time.

 

[Rexedgar]

There has to be an underlying crime for collusion/conspiracy to be a crime. In this case attempting to work with foreign powers to influence the US election

Not schooled in the law, but I think “conspiracy” stands on it’s own as a crime.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371

 

[Rexedgar]

no. as a rule of thumb, i consider anything Trump or his team says to be a lie. it works well most of the time.

That approach makes you money at the betting parlor.....

 

[roughdraft274]

Everything they say I take with a large grain of salt.

Anything they say that sounds in the least bit fishy I assume it's a lie until proven otherwise.

As for the trump tower meeting, if anyone honestly believes that Don Jr, Manafort and Kushner went into a meeting with Russians about dirt on Hillary and never told him before or after, and that the private numbers called immediately before and after the meeting weren't Trump, and that his announcement to have a big reveal about Hillary Clinton right after the meeting was talked about had nothing to do with the meeting and expected dirt then you just might be one of the most gullible persons on earth.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Not schooled in the law, but I think “conspiracy” stands on it’s own as a crime.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371

For it to be illegal their still has to be an underlying offense

If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

I could conspire with my son not to tell his mom he ate a chocolate bar when he was not supposed to. But as eating the bar is not illegal the conspiracy is not as well.

So conspiracy is a crime provided it was associated with another crime

 

[Middle_Ground]

There has to be an underlying crime for collusion/conspiracy to be a crime. In this case attempting to work with foreign powers to influence the US election

I get it...but the problem being collusion has become this soft way of saying conspiracy. It was and is a conspiracy everything that's been said publicly proves it. While we are busy playing word semantics.

 

[Middle_Ground]

For it to be illegal their still has to be an underlying offense

If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

I could conspire with my son not to tell his mom he ate a chocolate bar when he was not supposed to. But as eating the bar is not illegal the conspiracy is not as well.

So conspiracy is a crime provided it was associated with another crime

That's just it you conspired with your son against your wife his mother. It's against something.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

That's just it you conspired with your son against your wife his mother. It's against something.

About not telling the wife about his eating a chocolate bar. We would get in trouble from the wife/mom, but it is not illegal.

What Russia/Trump is suspected of doing is illegal

 

[trouble13]

Well that's just false. The only credibility problem I've heard of for the investigators is that one of them, who was pulled off the case a long ass time ago, texted some mean comments about numerous politicians, Trump included. And he was pulled from the case basically because of an overabundance of precaution so that the investigation was free of even the appearance of impropriety. Other than that, from what I can see the investigation has been essentially as pure as the wind driven snow.

No its not false nor is the credibility issues limited to Strzok.
Off the top of my head:
Comey
McCabe
Clapper
Rosenstein
Unnamed FBI agents
Mueller's team of political donors
Lynch
Obama

All of them have credibility problems.

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[Mach]

Trump should resign. Enough with the lies already.

That's the real story here, this should never have been allowed to occur, or go on this long in the first place. Someone as compromised as Trump should have been prohibited from being commander in chief before the primary. Even still, if Trump had resigned, it wouldn't have dragged the Republican party nearly as far down with it, as this daily ****-show of deplorable "how low can we go!"

 

[Mach]

I have no idea what your going on about. I'm pointing out that both Trump and his team along with those investigating him have credibility problems. I would think that everyone could agree on that much.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk

There it is again. # of issues. 4 vs 39494.

But damn, both have issues! It's so pathetic it hurts.