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Does anyone know if...

shuamort said:
The Japanese are US Citizens? News to me. Because that's the crux of the law, right, the citizenship.
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As noted before, 4th amendment protections apply to everyone, not just citizens. If you're a foerign national in the US, you have the same 4th amendment rights as a citizen.
 
M14 Shooter said:
As noted before, 4th amendment protections apply to everyone, not just citizens. If you're a foerign national in the US, you have the same 4th amendment rights as a citizen.
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http://cryptome.org/nsa-4th-p2.htm
A final value reflected in the Fourth Amendment is revealed in its opening words: "The right of the people." Who are "the people" to whom the Amendment refers? The Constitution begins with the phrase, "We the People of the United States." That phrase has the character of words of art, denoting the power from which the Constitution comes. It does suggest a special concern for the American citizen and for those who share the responsibilities of citizens. The Fourth Amendment guards the right of "the people" and it can be urged that it was not meant to apply to foreign nations, their agents and collaborators. Its application may at least take account of that difference.
 
when Clinton signed executive orders to the same effect and
FinnMacCool said:
Dumbest thing I've heard all day.
Why don't you try to explain this statement?
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As has been said a zillion times on the various threads related to this subject:

The Democrats presently whining about warrantless wiretaps didnt say a thing about it in 1994 and 1995 when Clinton signed executive orders to that effect, and members of his DOJ tesstified before the senate, arguing the same thing Bush is arguing.

They're going after Bush because they think they can gain power from it, and nothing more.
 
shuamort said:
http://cryptome.org/nsa-4th-p2.htm
A final value reflected in the Fourth Amendment is revealed in its opening words: "The right of the people." Who are "the people" to whom the Amendment refers? The Constitution begins with the phrase, "We the People of the United States." That phrase has the character of words of art, denoting the power from which the Constitution comes. It does suggest a special concern for the American citizen and for those who share the responsibilities of citizens. The Fourth Amendment guards the right of "the people" and it can be urged that it was not meant to apply to foreign nations, their agents and collaborators. Its application may at least take account of that difference.
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Really.
Tell me again why those held at Gitmo deserve to hace access to lawyers and trials -- they arent citizens.

And then tell me how an American citizen acting in concert with AQ isn't a collaberator and/or agent of a foreign power.
 
M14 Shooter said:
...FDR had a warrant to intercept and decipher the Japanese Diplomatic codes in the months leading up to WW2?
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That's right I don't think he did we should dig up his corpse and demand his arrest, that treachorous pig shitted all over the constitution, may he rot in hell.
 
Lefty said:
You mean to say that there is no real difference between what Bush actually did, and what you just made up about FDR.



Clinton violated the 4th Amendment? News to me. In fact it kinda sounds like you made it up. But you know what? Doesn't matter, it still doesn't justify the actions of President Bush. This whole thread is based on "Oh he did it too so it's alright." I mean c'mon... grow up, this isn't 3rd grade. And you realize that your argument is a logical fallacy?
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Bullshit compared to operation Echelon the NSA phone tapping program is a joke, Clinton had the NSA create a filter that looked for key words on every citizen in this countries internet activities not to mention the monitoring of cell phone calls, all this without warrants, all this without probable cause, and all this with out a clear and present danger to this nations securtity, not like Bush who had 9-11 happen on his watch.
 
M14 Shooter said:
Really.
Tell me again why those held at Gitmo deserve to hace access to lawyers and trials -- they arent citizens.

And then tell me how an American citizen acting in concert with AQ isn't a collaberator and/or agent of a foreign power.
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Really? Well, your job would be to prove that they're using the 4th Amendment to do what you're claiming. I'm ok with being proved wrong, but you'll have to bring the proof.
 
shuamort said:
Really? Well, your job would be to prove that they're using the 4th Amendment to do what you're claiming. I'm ok with being proved wrong, but you'll have to bring the proof.
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No. "My job" has to do with showing that you are trying to have it both ways.

Which you are.

You claim that the protections in the constitution only applies to citizens, and that the protections in the constitition apply to everyone, even non-citizens.

You can decide which was you want it to be, but you have to be consistient.
 
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