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Documents Show Senior Officials Approved Gitmo Detainee Abuse

danarhea

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Documents obtained by the Civil Liberties Union show that senior officials in the administration approved of techniques which the FBI determined to be unlawful. What angered the FBI agents assigned to Gitmo was the fact that the DoD personnel identified themselves to the detainees as FBI agents. The papers also show that the General Counsel of the Navy, Alberto Mora, tried unsuccessfully to stop the abuse of prisoners.

The documents show that officials high in the Bush administration, including the Deputy Secretary of Defense, approved of these methods, in spite of the efforts of FBI and US Navy personnel to put a stop to them because they had determined them to violate both American and International law.

Article is here.
 

Cassapolis

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danarhea said:
Documents obtained by the Civil Liberties Union show that senior officials in the administration approved of techniques which the FBI determined to be unlawful. What angered the FBI agents assigned to Gitmo was the fact that the DoD personnel identified themselves to the detainees as FBI agents. The papers also show that the General Counsel of the Navy, Alberto Mora, tried unsuccessfully to stop the abuse of prisoners.

The documents show that officials high in the Bush administration, including the Deputy Secretary of Defense, approved of these methods, in spite of the efforts of FBI and US Navy personnel to put a stop to them because they had determined them to violate both American and International law.

Article is here.

Does any of this crap surprise anyone anymore? How much of this has to get piled on before the decide we've had enough and we take back our government? This administration is the most crooked and curopt we've ever had and it seems like every 2 or 3 days there's another story coming out about them ignoring or breaking this law or that. We need to rise above and put a stop to this. This is AMERICA we're supposed to be a beacon for truth and justice, our government has turned us into a cesspool by stripping us of our civil liberties, taking from the poor and giving to the rich, now they are hell bent on ignoring our security and international as well as domestic laws. This needs to stop before it is too late. Sorry kinda went off on a rant but I'm not going to take it back.
 
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danarhea said:
Documents obtained by the Civil Liberties Union show that senior officials in the administration approved of techniques which the FBI determined to be unlawful. What angered the FBI agents assigned to Gitmo was the fact that the DoD personnel identified themselves to the detainees as FBI agents. The papers also show that the General Counsel of the Navy, Alberto Mora, tried unsuccessfully to stop the abuse of prisoners.

The documents show that officials high in the Bush administration, including the Deputy Secretary of Defense, approved of these methods, in spite of the efforts of FBI and US Navy personnel to put a stop to them because they had determined them to violate both American and International law.

Article is here.
How many times has rawstory biten you on the behind, dana. You'd think you'd learn by now. But then again, I know you have a daily new thread quota. :mrgreen:
 

danarhea

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KCConservative said:
How many times has rawstory biten you on the behind, dana. You'd think you'd learn by now. But then again, I know you have a daily new thread quota. :mrgreen:
Do you admit or deny that the documents exist?

do you admit or deny that Alberto Mora, General Counsel of the United States Navy, tried to stop it?

Do you admit or deny the existence of the May 2003 FBI memo which raised the the issue of illegality of what the administration was doing?
 
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cherokee

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I'm sorry but I could give a rats a$$ about those people.
They are POW's/enemy combatants or whatever.
At least they're not being beheaded for aljazeera.

Yes I know I wont win any humanity awards.
 

danarhea

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cherokee said:
I'm sorry but I could give a rats a$$ about those people.
They are POW's/enemy combatants or whatever.
At least they're not being beheaded for aljazeera.

Yes I know I wont win any humanity awards.
Then maybe I will not decide to put in any humanity awards for myself if the same should ever happen to you.
 

cherokee

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danarhea said:
Then maybe I will not decide to put in any humanity awards for myself if the same should ever happen to you.

Thats fine by me.
 

Calm2Chaos

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cherokee said:
I'm sorry but I could give a rats a$$ about those people.
They are POW's/enemy combatants or whatever.
At least they're not being beheaded for aljazeera.

Yes I know I wont win any humanity awards.

Agreed.....
 

Billo_Really

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Originally Posted by cherokee
I'm sorry but I could give a rats a$$ about those people.
They are POW's/enemy combatants or whatever.
At least they're not being beheaded for aljazeera.

Yes I know I wont win any humanity awards.
Make sure you remember this when your sitting in a detention center with no court date set.
 

cherokee

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Billo_Really said:
Make sure you remember this when your sitting in a detention center with no court date set.
Then tell me what rights do POW's have?
GC.. thats it, nothing more...
Show me the treatment they have shown the US

I'll take the nude photo chit over my
head being cut off any damn day...
 

Billo_Really

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Originally Posted by cherokee
Then tell me what rights do POW's have?
GC.. thats it, nothing more...
Show me the treatment they have shown the US

I'll take the nude photo chit over my
head being cut off any damn day...
You don't even know if these people are guilty of anything. They haven't received due process of law. So there's the possibility they are not terrorists at all. They could be people just like you and me.

It is illegal to treat anyone that way.

Summary of International and U.S. Law Prohibiting Torture
and Other Ill-treatment of Persons in Custody
Last Updated May 24, 2004


International and U.S. law prohibits torture and other ill-treatment of any person in custody in all circumstances. The prohibition applies to the United States during times of peace, armed conflict, or a state of emergency. Any person, whether a U.S. national or a non-citizen, is protected. It is irrelevant whether the detainee is determined to be a prisoner-of-war, a protected person, or a so-called “security detainee” or “unlawful combatant.” And the prohibition is in effect within the territory of the United States or any place anywhere U.S. authorities have control over a person. In short, the prohibition against torture and ill-treatment is absolute.


http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/24/usint8614.htm
I don't care for head-choppers either. But putting 200,000 people homeless is pretty bad too.
 

cherokee

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Billo_Really]You don't even know if these people are guilty of anything. They haven't received due process of law. So there's the possibility they are not terrorists at all. They could be people just like you and me.

And they are holding hearings person by person to determine their status.



It is illegal to treat anyone that way.

How are they being treated? Do you or anyone else have anything more then rumors and hearsay? If it was truly that bad wouldn’t the Red Cross report of 2004 and stated that or made it way to the free press?

I don't care for head-choppers either. But putting 200,000 people homeless is pretty bad too.
What 200k people? Afghan or Iraq?
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by cherokee
How are they being treated? Do you or anyone else have anything more then rumors and hearsay? If it was truly that bad wouldn’t the Red Cross report of 2004 and stated that or made it way to the free press?
The only organization that the military has allowed to see the detainee's is the ICRC. And this is because they have a policy of not publishing their reports. They just turn their findings and recommendations over to government representatives.

Originally posted by cherokee
What 200k people? Afghan or Iraq?
Iraqi residents in Falluja.
 

cherokee

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The only organization that the military has allowed to see the detainee's is the ICRC. And this is because they have a policy of not publishing their reports. They just turn their findings and recommendations over to government representatives.

Even so if they had found the great torture chambers as some groups claim the story would have found its way out. You know as well as I do you cant keep a secret among 3 people.


Iraqi residents in Falluja.
Falluja?
Are you serious? It was a safe haven for insurgents. It had to be cleared out period! And what makes you so sure its was the US who made those people homeless?
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by cherokee
Falluja?
Are you serious? It was a safe haven for insurgents. It had to be cleared out period! And what makes you so sure its was the US who made those people homeless?
Because you can't destroy 75% of a city the size of Long Beach, California in that amount of time with car bombs. It's a pretty sick mind that thinks it's OK to put over 200,000 people homeless just to get at less than 1/10th of one percent of the population. International Law says you have to take every precaution ensure their safety. Shooting everything that moves, is not ensuring safety.
 

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cherokee said:
I'm sorry but I could give a rats a$$ about those people.
Would you be willing to give a rat's *** about the conduct of our govt?
 

cherokee

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Billo_Really said:
Because you can't destroy 75% of a city the size of Long Beach, California in that amount of time with car bombs. It's a pretty sick mind that thinks it's OK to put over 200,000 people homeless just to get at less than 1/10th of one percent of the population. International Law says you have to take every precaution ensure their safety. Shooting everything that moves, is not ensuring safety.

Oh,... ok so the US destroyed 75% of the city? And you witnessed this for yourself right? And you counted the people as they left or did you just get these numbers from Saddam?

Just tell me what the f**k are you supposed to do then?
What do you do when you find an area that’s overrun by insurgents? Huh?!!!

..................


Would you be willing to give a rat's *** about the conduct of our govt?
Of course I would.
But not to person on the battle field trying to kill me.

................

Does anyone know why they are being held in Cuba?
Because they have no country to ship them back to. Its not like WWII.
You gonna send them back to Afghan so they can rejoin the fight?
 

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Those prisoners have it made in the shade in Gitmo, literally!

These men were found on the battlefield, none who are left are innocent, this I believe to be a certainty. As someone else had mentioned, there is no where else to send them, we are stuck with these rotten bastards, if it were up to me, I'd cut their f**king heads off, and send the tape to AlJezzara(sp?) That is not how we operate though, and our boys are acting in a very professional manner, because if I want to execute these bastards, I can only imagine what the guards want to do to these animals that killed their friends. Entirely too much is being made of this Gitmo situation, when we send them to Arab states, they complain they torture there, when we release them, they have been found to be right back to their old tricks, if we keep them there some idiots want them to be treated as citizens of our country, you just can't win!:roll:
 

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Billo_Really said:
International Law says you have to take every precaution ensure their safety. Shooting everything that moves, is not ensuring safety.

They did billo...


If everything that’s moving is shooting at you then yes you fire back.
What would you have the troops do use harsh language to defend themselves?
Hell maybe the US can just use rubber bullets for any future wars.
You make it sound like all the bad guys wear black shirts or something.

Mistakes will be made but.....ITS COMBAT!
Our Troops have the right to protect themselves and to protect the peaceful Iraqi people.
 

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Billo_Really said:
Because you can't destroy 75% of a city the size of Long Beach, California in that amount of time with car bombs. It's a pretty sick mind that thinks it's OK to put over 200,000 people homeless just to get at less than 1/10th of one percent of the population. International Law says you have to take every precaution ensure their safety. Shooting everything that moves, is not ensuring safety.
Again with this?

> Ample opportunity was given for any that wanted to leave to do so. Any that remained knew that an attack was coming. And no, that doesn't make those that remained automatically fair game; certainly some were unable to leave for whatever reasons. But it did give any that remained (including insurgents) an opportunity to prepare shelter and provisions.

> How sure are you of that 75% figure? What is your source for that specific estimate?

> You say 200,000 homeless. Again, how sure are you of that figure? What is your source for that particular figure?

> "Shooting everything that moves" suggests that our Rules of Engagement changed considerably for Fallujah. What is your source for "everything that moves"?

Are you aware of our follow-on rebuilding program in Fallujah?
 

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Originally posted by oldreliable67
Again with this?

> Ample opportunity was given for any that wanted to leave to do so. Any that remained knew that an attack was coming. And no, that doesn't make those that remained automatically fair game; certainly some were unable to leave for whatever reasons. But it did give any that remained (including insurgents) an opportunity to prepare shelter and provisions.

> How sure are you of that 75% figure? What is your source for that specific estimate?

> You say 200,000 homeless. Again, how sure are you of that figure? What is your source for that particular figure?

> "Shooting everything that moves" suggests that our Rules of Engagement changed considerably for Fallujah. What is your source for "everything that moves"?

Are you aware of our follow-on rebuilding program in Fallujah?
Yes, I am aware of the good things that are going on in Iraq. I know it is not all bad. I know we are rebuilding their infrastructure. It's just that I hold my country to a higher standard than others and when I see reports like this I just go berserk. Here's the link.
 

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Billo,

The article by Dahr Jamail certainly shows something that can never, ever be denied: the brutal face of war. Jamail accomplishes his purpose by concentrating on the brutality of war, and focusing on the presumed depredations of only one party to the war, the US. He ignores the role played by al Qaeda in Iraq and the other insurgents. I scanned a couple of Jamails other reports and they were similar: focus on the brutality and allege that it is entirely the fault of the US. Not very much attention given to the victims, the torn bodies of women and children resulting from al Qaeda and insurgent bombings. Lets not forget that it takes two to have a war.

Just to provide a little balance, here is an excerpt from a CSM article on the aftermath of Fallujah...

An unexpected measure of success came on election day last week. Nearly 8,000 people here defied insurgent threats and voted, according to US military officials. That figure accounts for 44 percent of all votes cast in Anbar Province, which includes the Sunni triangle, where antielection feeling was so strong that less than 7 percent voted at all.

New sense of security

Iraqis say the result shows how secure Fallujahns are beginning to feel, and note with added surprise that more than a few said their ballot was for Iyad Allawi, the US-backed interim prime minister who ordered the Fallujah invasion.

"It's better that the Americans are here," says Abdulrahab Abdulrahman, a teacher who carries a folder containing a compensation claim for the damage to his house. "I have the freedom to be a student, or whatever I want to be."

The mujahideen "are gone," he says, clearly pleased, standing on a street strewn with rubble. "They are finished."

Children wave at the marines, and accept candy that the men keep in cargo pockets, alongside stun grenades and extra rifle magazines. Many adults wave, too, though some look sullenly past.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0208/p01s02-woiq.html
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by oldreliable67
Just to provide a little balance, here is an excerpt from a CSM article on the aftermath of Fallujah...
I definately agree that both sides of the issue must be presented.
That is only fair.

Your comments are always welcome.
 
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