Documents: Al-Qaida Sought U.S.-Iran War

[Gill]

It seems, as promised by the US military, a treasure trove of information was found in the search for al-Zarqawi. One document quoted by the AP is particularly interesting. It shows how frustrated and weakened al-Qaida in Iraq had become. It also indicates that they would love to bog down America in a war with Iran to take pressure off themselves.

The document said the insurgency was being hurt by, among other things, the U.S. military's program to train Iraqi security forces, by massive arrests and seizures of weapons, by tightening the militants' financial outlets, and by creating divisions within its ranks.

"Generally speaking and despite the gloomy present situation, we find that the best solution in order to get out of this crisis is to involve the U.S. forces in waging a war against another country or any hostile groups," the document said, as quoted by al-Maliki's office.

According to the summary, insurgents were being weakened by operations against them and by their failure to attract recruits. To give new impetus to the insurgency, they would have to change tactics, it added.

"We mean specifically attempting to escalate the tension between America and Iran, and American and the Shiite in Iraq," it quoted the documents as saying, especially among moderate followers of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the most influential Shiite cleric in Iraq.

"Creating disputes between America and them could hinder the U.S. cooperation with them, and subsequently weaken this kind of alliance between Shiites and the Americans," it said, adding that "the best solution is to get America involved in a war against another country and this would bring benefits."

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/15/D8I8NEB80.html

Actual document here: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/15/D8I8LJBG0.html

 

[Gill]

Here's some more on the goodies captured along with al-Zarqawi. Iraq is now hopeful al-Zarqawi's death will settle the situation there enough for Americas to withdraw significantly in the near future.

Raids after al-Zarqawi's death have resulted in 108 insurgents being killed and the capture of an additional 759.

That should slow them down some.

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Iraq's national security adviser said Thursday a "huge treasure" of documents and computer records was seized after the raid on terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's hideout, giving the Iraqi government the upper hand in its fight against al-Qaida in Iraq.

National Security Adviser Mouwafak al-Rubaie also said he believed the security situation in the country would improve enough to allow a large number of U.S.-led forces to leave Iraq by the end of this year, and a majority to depart by the end of next year. "And maybe the last soldier will leave Iraq by mid-2008," he said.

Al-Rubaie said a laptop, flashdrive and other documents were found in the debris after the airstrike that killed the al-Qaida in Iraq leader last week outside Baqouba, and more information has been uncovered in raids of other insurgent hideouts since then.

He called it a "huge treasure ... a huge amount of information."

When asked how he could be sure the information was authentic, al-Rubaie said "there is nothing more authentic than finding a thumbdrive in his pocket."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060615/D8I8JAC80.html

 

[Iriemon]

No surprise here. Al-Queda wanted a US - Iraq war too. They want Jihad, remember? It is the best if not only way to rally Muslem support for their cause. Otherwise who wants a bunch of radical nut-cases around.

 

[Kelzie]

It also backs up that most of the insurgents are foreign.

It also appears to reinforce American and Iraqi arguments that al-Qaida in Iraq and its operatives are a group of imported extremists bent on killing innocent civilians.

It was a great find.

 

[MSgt]

No surprise here. Al-Queda wanted a US - Iraq war too. They want Jihad, remember? It is the best if not only way to rally Muslem support for their cause. Otherwise who wants a bunch of radical nut-cases around.

Al-Queda wanted any war against the West, no matter where it was to be conducted. We gave them what they wanted and we have been slaughtering them on multiple fronts in a multiple of nations. Give them what they want. This "Radical nut-case" element exists under all Muslim governments. They exist and fester, because their host nations would rather look the other way then antagonize them. So it's not that they want them, they simply leave them alone. If they are so determined to die, so be it. We have provided them a location on their own soil to come and die for "Allah."

 

[Gill]

We have seen several captured documents lately that show that the terrorists are losing the battle. While I don't believe al-Zarqawi's death will end the bloodshed, it does put a damper on it. They must be feeling very discouraged and frustrated these days with the death of al-Zarqawi, then the death or capture of over 850 of his group.

 

[Iriemon]

It also backs up that most of the insurgents are foreign.

Why does it do that?

 

[MSgt]

Why does it do that?

Because it is as true today as it was last year? Because we can trace nationality from the dead? Because we receive intel from the captured? Because documents have reports, names, and accountabilities? Because their is a sense of organization in Al-Queda and who fights for them? The Sunni insurgency has always been foreign and of foreign influence. I've repeatedly told you that this element is seperate from the local Sunni rebels, which are far greater than the Sunni insurgency.

 

[Iriemon]

We have seen several captured documents lately that show that the terrorists are losing the battle. While I don't believe al-Zarqawi's death will end the bloodshed, it does put a damper on it. They must be feeling very discouraged and frustrated these days with the death of al-Zarqawi, then the death or capture of over 850 of his group.

We have seen these types of claims before; it was just over a year ago Cheney told us the insurgents were in their "last throes." Hopefully this time it is true, but the past record on such claims makes me skeptical.

In truth, from what I have read, Zarqawi wasn't really popular even within the resistance, as many didn't like his tactics or style. I'm not sure that Zarqawi was the big fish both he and the Admin made him out to be.

 

[Iriemon]

Al-Queda wanted any war against the West, no matter where it was to be conducted. We gave them what they wanted and we have been slaughtering them on multiple fronts in a multiple of nations. Give them what they want. This "Radical nut-case" element exists under all Muslim governments. They exist and fester, because their host nations would rather look the other way then antagonize them. So it's not that they want them, they simply leave them alone. If they are so determined to die, so be it. We have provided them a location on their own soil to come and die for "Allah."

Yes we have. And if I were an Iraqi, I wouldn't be particularly thrilled that it was my country that is the battleground.

 

[Iriemon]

Because it is as true today as it was last year? Because we can trace nationality from the dead? Because we receive intel from the captured? Because documents have reports, names, and accountabilities? Because their is a sense of organization in Al-Queda and who fights for them? The Sunni insurgency has always been foreign and of foreign influence. I've repeatedly told you that this element is seperate from the local Sunni rebels, which are far greater than the Sunni insurgency.

Well golly Sarge, if you say it, that is good enough for me. Who am I to question your statements as rote fact?

 

[Gill]

We have seen these types of claims before; it was just over a year ago Cheney told us the insurgents were in their "last throes." Hopefully this time it is true, but the past record on such claims makes me skeptical.

In truth, from what I have read, Zarqawi wasn't really popular even within the resistance, as many didn't like his tactics or style. I'm not sure that Zarqawi was the big fish both he and the Admin made him out to be.

I'll have to disagree here. Zarqawi was a very big fish. His tactics of killing other Muslims may have made him unpopular in some circles, but he was good at what he did. If he was not a big fish, why was there so much intelligence found with him?

Of course, if you do not believe the governments of the US and Iraq, then you might be dubious that so much good information was found. I can't help you with that.

 

[Iriemon]

I'll have to disagree here. Zarqawi was a very big fish. His tactics of killing other Muslims may have made him unpopular in some circles, but he was good at what he did. If he was not a big fish, why was there so much intelligence found with him?

Of course, if you do not believe the governments of the US and Iraq, then you might be dubious that so much good information was found. I can't help you with that.

I was not questioning that Zarqawi was a big fish with the Al-Queda effort in Iraq; but whether he was that big of a fish in the whole scheme of the resistance.

It's like the war on drugs, the US periodically captures "big fish," and tho the enemy may be disrupted for a time, the "war" doesn't end.

 

[::Major_Baker::]

It also backs up that most of the insurgents are foreign.



It was a great find.

what do you mean?

Is that so?
And what of this study from Centcom?
http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/051209_iraqiinsurg.pdf

According to CENTCOM, 90 percent of the insurgency is Iraqi and Sunni, with a maximum of 10 percent foreign contribution to insurgent manpower.i While relatively small, this foreign element is recognized as almost exclusively Sunni, a particularly violent segment of the insurgency, and ideologically driven by Neo-Salafi extremism. Likewise, the foreign element is seen as an important source of money and materiel support to the insurgency.

 

[Captain America]

Insurgents Are Mostly Iraqis, U.S. Military Says

<snip>

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0928-21.htm

 

[ProudAmerican]

the part the majority of the left (see kelzie, i do learn) wants to ignore is the REASON al queda in Iraq wanted a war between the U.S. and Iran.

they wanted us to be bogged down (a term the left loves to use) in another war because quite frankly, we are kicking the **** out of them in this one.

 

[Iriemon]

Insurgents Are Mostly Iraqis, U.S. Military Says

<snip>

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0928-21.htm

So do the Iraqis:

In January 2005 Iraqi intelligence service director General Mohamed Abdullah Shahwani said that Iraq's insurgency consited of at least 40,000 hardcore fighters, out of a total of more than 200,000 part-time fighters and volunteers who provide intelligence, logistics and shelter. ... A picture of the composition of the insurgency, though in constant flux, has come into somewhat greater focus. London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies estimates roughly 1,000 foreign Islamic jihadists have joined the insurgency.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...insurgency.htm

But what do they know. Besides, that was last year.

 

[Deegan]

So do the Iraqis:

In January 2005 Iraqi intelligence service director General Mohamed Abdullah Shahwani said that Iraq's insurgency consited of at least 40,000 hardcore fighters, out of a total of more than 200,000 part-time fighters and volunteers who provide intelligence, logistics and shelter. ... A picture of the composition of the insurgency, though in constant flux, has come into somewhat greater focus. London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies estimates roughly 1,000 foreign Islamic jihadists have joined the insurgency.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...insurgency.htm

But what do they know. Besides, that was last year.

What you fail to realize is this, 100,000 Iraqi insurgents, mixed with 1,000 radicals, just waiting to strap one on........can be a very dangerous thing. Now I know you don't want this to succeed, that's obvious, but you can't deny the facts on the ground, this is what has come to be. Former loyalists just want their cushy jobs back, and are running out of funds, friends, and options, and they will soon fail in a war of attrition!

But poo poo the progress, it's a free world, just got a lot more free actually.

 

[Iriemon]

What you fail to realize is this, 100,000 Iraqi insurgents, mixed with 1,000 radicals, just waiting to strap one on........can be a very dangerous thing. Now I know you don't want this to succeed, that's obvious, but you can't deny the facts on the ground, this is what has come to be. Former loyalists just want their cushy jobs back, and are running out of funds, friends, and options, and they will soon fail in a war of attrition!

But poo poo the progress, it's a free world, just got a lot more free actually.

And what you fail to realize is that we were not discussing whether the insurgency is dangerous or not, but its make up, in response to some who claim the insurgency is mostly foreign fighters and not Iraqis.

 

[Gill]

And what you fail to realize is that we were not discussing whether the insurgency is dangerous or not, but its make up, in response to some who claim the insurgency is mostly foreign fighters and not Iraqis.

What possible difference does it make if the insurgents are Iraqi or foreign??? They are killing innocent Iraqi men, women and children along with our brave troops.

The insurgents must be dealt with (killed or captured) before there will be any type of peace in Iraq.

 

[Deegan]

And what you fail to realize is that we were not discussing whether the insurgency is dangerous or not, but its make up, in response to some who claim the insurgency is mostly foreign fighters and not Iraqis.

I see that Kelzie did make that error, but that does not speak to how important it is to be making headway with the destruction of the radical element in that theater. I think you have allowed yourself to be side-tracked by one incorrect assumption, and not given weight to the real meat of this thread. Still, I have made the same mistake, just get yourself back on track, and don't allow these distractions.

 

[Iriemon]

What possible difference does it make if the insurgents are Iraqi or foreign??? They are killing innocent Iraqi men, women and children along with our brave troops.

The insurgents must be dealt with (killed or captured) before there will be any type of peace in Iraq.

1. If the resistance is largely made up of Iraqis as opposed to foreign Al-Queda types, the death of Zarqawi is likely to have less significance in the opposition.

2. If the resistance is largely made of of Iraqis as opposed to foreign Al-Queda types, the war in Iraq is mostly a civil war being fought against a local group who resists our occupation, as opposed to making real progress against folks who were anti-American radical Islamic terrorists before the war.

3. If the resistance is largely made of of Iraqis as opposed to foreign Al-Queda types, then the resistance and bloodshed is happening largely because of our troops' presence there.

4. We are supposedly supposed to be helping Iraqis, not killing them.

5. Resistance to a foreign invader is not necessarily an evil act. If the United Muslem States invaded the US to depose our leader and install an approved governmetn, I'd fight against them, even though I'd be kind of glad about removing Bush. I'd kill as many of the invaders I could, and those that cooperated with them.

Wouldn't you? Or would you cooperate with the invaders?

 

[Kelzie]

what do you mean?

Is that so?
And what of this study from Centcom?
http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/051209_iraqiinsurg.pdf

According to CENTCOM, 90 percent of the insurgency is Iraqi and Sunni, with a maximum of 10 percent foreign contribution to insurgent manpower.i While relatively small, this foreign element is recognized as almost exclusively Sunni, a particularly violent segment of the insurgency, and ideologically driven by Neo-Salafi extremism. Likewise, the foreign element is seen as an important source of money and materiel support to the insurgency.

Seeing as the document was from Al-Qaida, one could pretty logically infer that I meant Al-Qaida insurgents. Of which, according to the document, most are foreign. I'm afraid I trust the people that lead that group more than some outside organization.

 

[Kelzie]

I see that Kelzie did make that error, but that does not speak to how important it is to be making headway with the destruction of the radical element in that theater. I think you have allowed yourself to be side-tracked by one incorrect assumption, and not given weight to the real meat of this thread. Still, I have made the same mistake, just get yourself back on track, and don't allow these distractions.

What the hell? The only error I made was assuming that since the documents were from Al-Qaida, people would understand when I said "the insurgents" that were mentioned, I was obviously referring to Al-Qaida insurgents.

 

[ProudAmerican]

What I find amusing is that these documents clearly show the terrorists dont like the way things are going.

and some people STILL cant just give some credit where it is due.

I have said all along....the radical leftwing element in this country is invested in defeat. They DONT WANT to see any positive news.

They REFUSE to see any positive news.