Do you support the Nordic model for the US?

[L88]

It is expensive mainly because of the ridiculous for-profit private healthcare insurance industry.

The US has an obesity rate of 36% while Denmark is 19%.
The US far exceeds any other 1st world country in obesity.
The US far exceeds the rest of the world in opioid deaths.

Opioids, Cocaine, Cannabis, and Other Illicit Drugs

How common is the use and addiction to opioids, cocaine, amphetamines and cannabis? What is the impact?

ourworldindata.org

 

[forn]

You can see it now.

Healthcare costs per capita

Denmark $7071
Finland $6,655
Iceland $6,770
Norway $9,393
Sweden $7,871
USA $14,885

That's not necessarily the result of universal health care. People in the US get charged more just because we're such a wealthy country.

 

[L88]

This may amaze you but I'm sure there are already rules for who can and can't get money while unemployed.
You can't just roll into the unemployment office and just say you can't be bothered to work so give me loads of money.
That's not how that works.

Also your side is incharge for 50% of the last hundred years so how have you let the situation get to this point if it's so untenable?
Your side helped make the rules you're complaining about.

which side is my side?

 

[Allan]

That's not necessarily the result of universal health care.

Yes, it is.

But not to worry - you'll never have it.

 

[Peter]

which side is my side?

I assume you vote Republican given the info in your bio.

 

[L88]

I assume you vote Republican given the info in your bio.

Not in the Presidential race.

 

[Felis Leo]

The US has an obesity rate of 36% while Denmark is 19%.
The US far exceeds any other 1st world country in obesity.
The US far exceeds the rest of the world in opioid deaths.

Opioids, Cocaine, Cannabis, and Other Illicit Drugs

How common is the use and addiction to opioids, cocaine, amphetamines and cannabis? What is the impact?

ourworldindata.org

Yes. And if we adopted a Nordic Model, these issues would be ameliorated. Plus, we could make it illegal for companies to pour high fructose corn syrup into nearly everything including plain sliced bread. Which, to be clear, is the source of much of our obesity and diabetes epidemic. I would be happy to be proven wrong, but I do not think the Scandinavians allow their food production companies to dump massive amounts of sugar into basic non-dessert processed foods.

 

[forn]

Yes, it is.

Simply saying "Yes it is" does not make it so. There are a lot of factors that make healthcare more expensive in the US.

 

[Felis Leo]

Simply saying "Yes it is" does not make it so. There are a lot of factors that make healthcare more expensive in the US.

Yes. We allow companies to poison our kids from a young age in the United States which explodes our healthcare costs. We know what causes obesity: sugar. Yet we let food production companies shovel sugar into everything including basic bread. And that is possible because we allow corporations to nakedly buy our lawmakers and regulators.

 

[Peter]

Not in the Presidential race.

Fair enough.

 

[Allan]

There are a lot of factors that make healthcare more expensive in the US.

Like stupidity mostly.

 

[forn]

Like stupidity mostly.

There's no shortage of that.

 

[tshade]

Seems to me that if the US were to ban private schools and implement state-paid allowance increases for good grades, then we could cheaply upgrade the public schools. Universal and quantitative standards of academic performance as universal and quantitative criteria in hiring decisions would make focusing on school more worthwhile for kids who keep to the straight and narrow.

The current system punishes hard work and good grades. I made, I think, something like a 4.5 GPA and I've gone twenty years without a job. I think my highest wages ever were all lower than the current legal minimum wage in the US.

We also need laws that make it so that those who have been unemployed longest receive higher priority in hiring decisions. That way instead of all those people who go on Social Security because they could work but they can't get hired, we would have people working all those jobs, even minimum wage jobs, that companies are "having trouble" hiring people for.

You are putting the blame on things besides yourself------------be careful = only losers do that, and you don't sound like a loser....

 

[Surrealistik]

I agree, time to cut out all this wasteful spending on services to red states It's like throwing money into a fire pit.

This is quite a thread. First @aociswundumho creates a thread to champion Denmark's system and now @Bullseye shows up advocating that red states finally be held accountable. I wonder who's next!

Now that his hero Milei has spectacularly, and very publicly crash and burned and made a complete and total joke of his failed Libertarian ideas and ideology after begging for 40 billion in bailouts (i.e. other people's money), perhaps he's finally coming around to realize his beliefs were utterly imbecilic in the first place.

Also I love how this thread has turned out to be an epic backfire, even with the loaded poll language and OP framing.

 

[spud_meister]

The Nordic model provides free healthcare, education, childcare, and more, but it comes at a very steep price compared to what we pay now:

Could you redo your numbers so you're comparing apples to apples. You can't compare every tax a Dane pays to US federal taxes only

 

[Individual]

That's not necessarily the result of universal health care. People in the US get charged more just because we're such a wealthy country.

The devil's in the details.

 

[Elmo]

The Nordic model provides free healthcare, education, childcare, and more, but it comes at a very steep price compared to what we pay now:

View attachment 67593599

If you want the Nordic model, no matter where you are on the economic ladder, you will bend over for the tax man and no lubrication will be provided. All of the Nordic countries have a 25% VAT, they all tax the shit out of gasoline, diesel, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. Norway is a petro-state, and gas is $8 per gallon there because of taxes. In Denmark, to register a $20,000 car, there is an 85% tax. A $40,000 car gets hit with a 150% tax. That's why you see pictures of miserable Danes riding their bikes in the rain and snow.

View attachment 67593604

This one is from Gemini:

View attachment 67593605

Yes. You haven't listed any downsides. Driving is miserable and we would all be much better off with less driving and more biking. I would be happy for taxation to encourage that shift. For those who must drive, the added benefits more than make up for the extra tax.

 

[Elmo]

The US has an obesity rate of 36% while Denmark is 19%.
The US far exceeds any other 1st world country in obesity.
The US far exceeds the rest of the world in opioid deaths.

Opioids, Cocaine, Cannabis, and Other Illicit Drugs

How common is the use and addiction to opioids, cocaine, amphetamines and cannabis? What is the impact?

ourworldindata.org

I wonder what would happen to obesity rates if people were incentivized to walk and bike whenever possible rather than driving everywhere...

 

[L88]

I wonder what would happen to obesity rates if people were incentivized to walk and bike whenever possible rather than driving everywhere...

You could tell them they will live longer, healthier lives.

 

[Peter]

I wonder what would happen to obesity rates if people were incentivized to walk and bike whenever possible rather than driving everywhere...

But that's pure communism!!

We all know the first thing communists do is improve bike infrastructure!

 

[Elmo]

You could tell them they will live longer, healthier lives.

Or we could tax the shit out of gas and cars. That seems more effective to me.

 

[L88]

Or we could tax the shit out of gas and cars. That seems more effective to me.

You'll have to get busy building alternate ways to get to work.
It would bring the Auto industry to a massive stop and huge layoffs. Do you have a transition plan for the workers?

 

[Elmo]

You'll have to get busy building alternate ways to get to work.

Yup. We have to start somewhere.

It would bring the Auto industry to a massive stop and huge layoffs. Do you have a transition plan for the workers?

Sure, if we assume the dumbest thing possible: massive societal shift instantly with no warning. Not sure why we'd assume that unless you are looking for excuses to make no changes at all?

Pro tip, don't whine about problems like obesity if you don't want to do anything about them.

 

[L88]

Yup. We have to start somewhere.


Sure, if we assume the dumbest thing possible: massive societal shift instantly with no warning. Not sure why we'd assume that unless you are looking for excuses to make no changes at all?

Pro tip, don't whine about problems like obesity if you don't want to do anything about them.

Pro tip, Don't be so naive as to think there are no consequences when you dick around with a current system.
I'm all for dedicated bicycle roads along major commuting routes in Germany. It's coming in someplaces but slow.
Look, I'm all for changes, but lifestyles begin early in life. Currently, parents are storing children in front of electronic games. That's where you have to make the change. There were very few obese children in the 60s.

 

[Gatsby]

Norway sells about 1.6 million barrels per day of crude oil. Perhaps you can explain how profiting from dirty fossil fuel is consistent with "climate policy" and Gaia worship.

All countries can do is focus on their own fossil fuel consumption. Other countries still need fossil fuels. Norway cutting off oil to other countries who need it is not going to have any impact on the climate; those countries are just going to buy it from somewhere else.