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do you know the King James Version of the Bible?

In Germany there is now a Bible translation in politically correct language. whenever there is a plural, both the feminine and thevmasculine form must be used.

eg Fischerinnen und Fischer .... for fishers ..
Römerinnen und Römer ..... for Romans

which makes looooooong sentences ..
 
Toggle Almendro said:
Greek is the original language of the Christian Old Testament.

Hebrew is the original text of the Jewish holy books. Not actually the same thing. The Jews altered their texts to remove pro-Christian interpretations.
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More like Christians added pro- Christian interpretations. Also the Septuagint is not a Christian source. It's from the 200s BCE, when Hebrew scholars in Alexandria started to translate Hebrew texts to Greek. It's also an important source for Jewish history, because in some cases there are Greek fragments older than the oldest Hebrew surviving Hebrew fragment.
 
Goshin said:
I should clarify, I do not speak either. I use a concordance, which reviews the original language and defines each word, often extrapolating on its historical use and has commentary by noted theologians on the translation.
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I am fascinated by languages and, having deprived myself of Latin by choosing Spanish as my second language in high school, have been trying to learn it for years. My husband is a classics scholar, so he knows both Latin and ancient Greek. His only Hebrew is probably what he learned in Hebrew school in Italy and by spending time in Israel, however. I do not think he would be up to translating any ancient Hebrew parchments. (Did they write on parchments?)
 
Rumpelstil said:
In Germany there is now a Bible translation in politically correct language. whenever there is a plural, both the feminine and thevmasculine form must be used.

eg Fischerinnen und Fischer .... for fishers ..
Römerinnen und Römer ..... for Romans

which makes looooooong sentences ..
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Progressives make everything worse.

That sort of nonsense goes on in English translations too.
 
joluoto said:
More like Christians added pro- Christian interpretations.
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No.

Note the text of Isaiah 7:14.

Greek/Christian:
Therefore, you will be given this sign by the Lord himself: The virgin will be with child, and she will give birth to a son, and she will name him Immanuel.

Hebrew/Jewish:
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign; the young woman, pregnant and about to bear a son, shall name him Emmanuel.

Would "a virgin getting pregnant" be a highly unusual event that could be seen as a sign from God?

Would "a young women getting pregnant" be a highly unusual event that could be seen as a sign from God?

The Greek has the original version.

The Hebrew text was modified later, to disown the predicted miracle after Christians started claiming it as their own.


joluoto said:
Also the Septuagint is not a Christian source. It's from the 200s BCE, when Hebrew scholars in Alexandria started to translate Hebrew texts to Greek. It's also an important source for Jewish history, because in some cases there are Greek fragments older than the oldest Hebrew surviving Hebrew fragment.
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That further undermines your claim that the Greek was modified to add a pro-Christian interpretation.

Just as the Alexandrian Greek preserves the original version of the New Testament, the Alexandrian Greek also preserves the original version of the Old Testament.
 
Toggle Almendro said:
No.

Note the text of Isaiah 7:14.

Greek/Christian:
Therefore, you will be given this sign by the Lord himself: The virgin will be with child, and she will give birth to a son, and she will name him Immanuel.

Hebrew/Jewish:
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign; the young woman, pregnant and about to bear a son, shall name him Emmanuel.

Would "a virgin getting pregnant" be a highly unusual event that could be seen as a sign from God?

Would "a young women getting pregnant" be a highly unusual event that could be seen as a sign from God?

The Greek has the original version.

The Hebrew text was modified later, to disown the predicted miracle after Christians started claiming it as their own.



That further undermines your claim that the Greek was modified to add a pro-Christian interpretation.

Just as the Alexandrian Greek preserves the original version of the New Testament, the Alexandrian Greek also preserves the original version of the Old Testament.
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This case is a translation error to Greek. The Hebrew uses amah which means young woman here, which was mistranslated to greek. How do we know that's the case? Because we have a BCE Hebrew version of Isaiah. The Dead Sea Scrolls which dates to the 100s BCE has the word amah here, meaning young woman. So if the Jews changed that they changed it before Christ was even born.
 
joluoto said:
This case is a translation error to Greek. The Hebrew uses amah which means young woman here, which was mistranslated to greek.
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That is incorrect. The Greek is correct.

Note again that the verse is speaking of a miraculous sign from God.

How is "a young woman getting pregnant" a great miracle?


joluoto said:
How do we know that's the case? Because we have a BCE Hebrew version of Isaiah. The Dead Sea Scrolls which dates to the 100s BCE has the word amah here, meaning young woman. So if the Jews changed that they changed it before Christ was even born.
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How is "a young woman getting pregnant" a great miracle?
 
Toggle Almendro said:
That is incorrect. The Greek is correct.

Note again that the verse is speaking of a miraculous sign from God.

How is "a young woman getting pregnant" a great miracle?



How is "a young woman getting pregnant" a great miracle?
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You tell me, we have the word almah in that verse in the Dead Sea Scrolls version of Isaiah, which is from the 100s BCE. So obviously the word was used here before Christ. Furthermore Isaiah uses the word Betulah (pure woman) for the word virgin in other verses, meaning it should be betulah here if the text was referring to a virgin.

Could the word almah in this case imply virgin? Well considering the text uses the word betulah in other instances it's unlikely. Could we have various manuscript traditions (I mean, yes, with every handwritten text there end up being several different manuscript traditions), where there were different Hebrew versions of Isaiah in circulation? Yes, possible, actually probable as it happened with all texts. But we don't know that. What we know is that the oldest version of Isaiah, which is from the BCEs uses the word Almah.
 
joluoto said:
You tell me,
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Okay. A young woman getting pregnant is not a miracle in any way. It is an entirely normal event that is completely ordinary.


joluoto said:
we have the word almah in that verse in the Dead Sea Scrolls version of Isaiah, which is from the 100s BCE. So obviously the word was used here before Christ. Furthermore Isaiah uses the word Betulah (pure woman) for the word virgin in other verses, meaning it should be betulah here if the text was referring to a virgin.
Could the word almah in this case imply virgin? Well considering the text uses the word betulah in other instances it's unlikely. Could we have various manuscript traditions (I mean, yes, with every handwritten text there end up being several different manuscript traditions), where there were different Hebrew versions of Isaiah in circulation? Yes, possible, actually probable as it happened with all texts. But we don't know that. What we know is that the oldest version of Isaiah, which is from the BCEs uses the word Almah.
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We also know that the verse talks of a miraculous sign from God. And we know that "a young woman getting pregnant" is nothing miraculous.
 
Toggle Almendro said:
Sure it is. The Christian Old Testament is similar to Jewish holy books. But it is not exactly the same thing as Jewish holy books.
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No...it's not...translating from Hebrew to English is not the same as translating from Hebrew to Greek to English...
 
Daisy said:
No...it's not...translating from Hebrew to English is not the same as translating from Hebrew to Greek to English...
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There is no Hebrew. The Christian Old Testament was originally in Greek. The texts in Hebrew are from a rival religion.
 
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