Do you Generally Trust the Government?

[blackjack50]

Ok so I am not sure where to put this thread because it is broad spectrum. I thought about because of gun control, but it applies to military, law and order, drugs, science, etc. Ad nauseum.

So. Would you say you trust the government in general? Or do you hold them at am arms reach assuming they are morons? Why do you think you would feel one way or the other?

I lean more to dislike. I have dealt with them and worked for the government. And it always seems like a bunch of incompetent morons doing things without thinking long term. But that is just me.

 

[Beaudreaux]

The only thing I trust about the government is for them to trivialize the momentous and glorify the inconsequential. Beyond that, they are completely unreliable to do anything correctly.

I wouldn't say that they are morons. I would say that many in the government do not have a grasp of what it takes to work in a job where you have to make a profit to survive, nor do they understand why the average person is so selfish regarding our personal liberty.

 

[Stoney]

Many of us seem to be divided along a line that trusts business more or trusts government more. Both government and business are made up of people who are motivated by the same things. People in both are capable of deception, fraud, theft, murder, about any bad thing you can imagine. To me the better question is which group of people is more likely to inhibit the pursuit of life liberty, property and happiness, which is more likely to commit tyranny.

And then it should be enlightening to examine which economic system is best able to help people reach their financial goals, which economic system treats people with less favoritism, which economic system is more efficient.

 

[a351]

The government is inefficient in some areas of need, and better suited to deal with others than the private sector. I've noticed that most Americans tend to hold government employees to a far higher standard than their private counterparts. In general, I'd take the average government employee/congressman over the average citizen on most matters of importance.

 

[SMTA]

Ok so I am not sure where to put this thread because it is broad spectrum. I thought about because of gun control, but it applies to military, law and order, drugs, science, etc. Ad nauseum.

So. Would you say you trust the government in general? Or do you hold them at am arms reach assuming they are morons? Why do you think you would feel one way or the other?

I lean more to dislike. I have dealt with them and worked for the government. And it always seems like a bunch of incompetent morons doing things without thinking long term. But that is just me.

Not in this lifetime.

On any level.

 

[Perotista]

Ok so I am not sure where to put this thread because it is broad spectrum. I thought about because of gun control, but it applies to military, law and order, drugs, science, etc. Ad nauseum.

So. Would you say you trust the government in general? Or do you hold them at am arms reach assuming they are morons? Why do you think you would feel one way or the other?

I lean more to dislike. I have dealt with them and worked for the government. And it always seems like a bunch of incompetent morons doing things without thinking long term. But that is just me.

I don't. The time when the majority of Americans trusted their government ended in the early 60's. Since then the majority of Americans have distrusted their government. I don't have that poll, but I do have a recent one from Gallup dealing with confidence in government:

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't

I think it has boiled down that governments first priority is to take care of government. Government is going to do what government wants to do regardless of what the people want government to do or not.

 

[Unrepresented]

Many of us seem to be divided along a line that trusts business more or trusts government more. Both government and business are made up of people who are motivated by the same things. People in both are capable of deception, fraud, theft, murder, about any bad thing you can imagine. To me the better question is which group of people is more likely to inhibit the pursuit of life liberty, property and happiness, which is more likely to commit tyranny.

And then it should be enlightening to examine which economic system is best able to help people reach their financial goals, which economic system treats people with less favoritism, which economic system is more efficient.

Good post. I trust the government more than I trust corporations and big money to look after my interests. Ultimately, I am allowed to vote for my government and not CEO's or tycoons. Government is my lesser of two evils

 

[Stoney]

The government is inefficient in some areas of need, and better suited to deal with others than the private sector. I've noticed that most Americans tend to hold government employees to a far higher standard than their private counterparts. In general, I'd take the average government employee/congressman over the average citizen on most matters of importance.

I don't know what areas government is more efficient in than the private sector. I will see many liberals point to the military as their example while shortly thereafter telling us how bloated the military is and how its owned by the military industrial machine.

And then there's this notion that government employees are better and more honest than private sector employees. I just don't know how that happens. I retired as a government employee. We had our own police force that mainly policed employees and instead of putting them in jail for their misconduct, fired them. Very often that misconduct was theft.

I don't believe that we can point to a reliable statistic that would prove that people who work in government are any smarter, any more honest or any more skilled that those who work in the private sector.

I do believe that this notion that government employees are more trusted comes from an unreasonable notion that the profit motive is the root of all evil. Progressives, liberals, socialists, communists, and some self described libertarians have done a good job of bashing the economic system that has made this country, and its citizens more secure and wealthier than at least most other nations.

 

[Lutherf]

I deal with the government quite a bit and yes, generally speaking, I trust them. In most areas the government does a reasonable job and is fair to deal with. That being said, the government has been tasked with a lot of things it should never have been given oversight of. Furthermore, in many cases the government contracts with private agencies to facilitate its responsibilities and many of those organizations are anywhere from somewhat to entirely corrupt.

One of the biggest problems with federal grants is that organizations receiving those grants have very little oversight and tend to campaign to increase their "business" so that they can justify more funding. For example, an agency that enrolls people in food stamps might try to enroll people who really don't qualify just so that they can show an increase in "need".

 

[Stoney]

Good post. I trust the government more than I trust corporations and big money to look after my interests. Ultimately, I am allowed to vote for my government and not CEO's or tycoons. Government is my lesser of two evils

I would argue that corporations and big money are more like government than capitalist entities, and of course they are products og government.

And we can vote for CEO's and tycoons if we own stock.

You can ignore the CEO of GE and he can not take your property or diminish your liberty. You can vote for the CEO of a government, but, given enough power and influence they can and have shown a propensity to through history, take your property and diminish your liberty.

Have you ever thought about why it is that some people seek power? That desire has nothing to do with our liberty. I have no doubt that there are some politicians who genuinely seek "the common good." To varying degrees most of them are more interested in what is good for them. That's easily seen by looking at all the perks they votes for themselves and what they do that is more about getting them re-elected than doing what's right for the country.

 

[Stoney]

One of the biggest problems with federal grants is that organizations receiving those grants have very little oversight and tend to campaign to increase their "business" so that they can justify more funding. For example, an agency that enrolls people in food stamps might try to enroll people who really don't qualify just so that they can show an increase in "need".

You've just described a bureaucrat, someone whose main job is to justify and expand their job. They are found in business, more so in large corporations, and in government. And in government and large corporations they are harder to see and control. In small, competitive businesses they can not be and are not tolerated.

 

[a351]

I don't know what areas government is more efficient in than the private sector. I will see many liberals point to the military as their example while shortly thereafter telling us how bloated the military is and how its owned by the military industrial machine.

They're often better equipped (both financially and in terms of information/subject matter experts) to attend to the needs of minority and generally underepresented groups.

And then there's this notion that government employees are better and more honest than private sector employees. I just don't know how that happens. I retired as a government employee. We had our own police force that mainly policed employees and instead of putting them in jail for their misconduct, fired them. Very often that misconduct was theft.

I'm not sure about more honest. I've experienced my fair share of dishonesty in the private sector, and am certainly aware of the same behaviors in the public sector.

I don't believe that we can point to a reliable statistic that would prove that people who work in government are any smarter, any more honest or any more skilled that those who work in the private sector.

You could point to educational attainment as an advantage for public sector employees, but the OP was soliciting personal opinions in general, not necessarily empirical data.

I do believe that this notion that government employees are more trusted comes from an unreasonable notion that the profit motive is the root of all evil. Progressives, liberals, socialists, communists, and some self described libertarians have done a good job of bashing the economic system that has made this country, and its citizens more secure and wealthier than at least most other nations.

Profit motive certainly isn't inherently evil, it can be a great asset in venues that demand efficiency and financial accountability above all else. It can also prove to be a catalyst for abuse and ineffectiveness in sectors which require a more humanistic and nuanced approach.

 

[Respecthelect]

Most government employees start out great, but the system rewards ruthless power-plays and empire-building. None of it in the public interest.

Look at Lois Lerner, the least competent of at least a hundred co-conspirators. She exercised ruthless attacks on innocent citizens in naked power-plays. It's obvious to any objective observer that there were dozens of others doing the same thing, because of all the other missing hard-drives. Lois Lerner and her co-conspirators (spread across many agencies) didn't erase their own hard-drives, so there must've been dozens of high-tech clean-up crews erasing hard drives, server files, Blackberries, etc. All told there must've been at least a hundred.

Saying Lerner was the least competent, because she got caught. But the other 99 didn't. That means those 99 had been abusing power and pulling illegal and dirty tricks possibly for years without getting caught. Even today, we know those 99 are criminals, but we have little hope of rooting them out of their power-positions. They will soon return to abusing power. And Lerner may get off, even though she's ruined countless Republican's lives and probably cost Romney the election. These criminals are changing the course of national elections and tampering with our election system, yet we are apparently powerless to stop the almighty government bureaucrat.

A hundred corrupt individuals, thwarting the law and abusing power. But, this is only one cabal within government. Look at Austin Texas drunk-prosecutor Lehmberg, falsely accusing Republican's in Texas. That Austin DA's falsely charged Tom Delay and Kay Bailly Hutchinson - both acquitted after lengthy and painful proceedings. Now they've attacked Rick Perry on false grounds.

This is the pattern of liberals. They abuse power when given the slightest authority.

Most government folks are wonderful, hard-working folks. Especially in the defense and intelligence communities, where A) there's not much power to abuse and B) there are fewer liberals. If there's a liberal in charge though, look out. Power is almost certainly being abused. Power plays and dirty tricks are being played to advance themselves and destroy their adversaries.

"Do I trust government?" My question is, "why should we need to trust government so much?" Why does government have the power to levy extra tax scrutiny? Why don't we setup a hands-off taxing system? National sales tax or national property tax systems require little tinkering by bureaucrats. Departments of Education, HHS, etc. are arming themselves now. For what purpose? We need less government power, not more. If government stuck to its sole legitimate purpose, "protecting liberty," we wouldn't need to worry about powers being abused, because government would have less power to watchdog.

It's illegitimate to even mention private sector bureaucrats in the same discussion, since the private sector doesn't exercise force, like government. Only government bureaucrats can sic the IRS auditors after you or armed Fish & Game or any of dozens of agencies with guns and jails.

 

[dogtowner]

Not no way, not no how.

 

[Stoney]

They're often better equipped (both financially and in terms of information/subject matter experts) to attend to the needs of minority and generally underepresented groups.



I'm not sure about more honest. I've experienced my fair share of dishonesty in the private sector, and am certainly aware of the same behaviors in the public sector.



You could point to educational attainment as an advantage for public sector employees, but the OP was soliciting personal opinions in general, not necessarily empirical data.



Profit motive certainly isn't inherently evil, it can be a great asset in venues that demand efficiency and financial accountability above all else. It can also prove to be a catalyst for abuse and ineffectiveness in sectors which require a more humanistic and nuanced approach.

I would have seen the OP as pointed to economics more than minority issues but would suggest that a just government should not treat its citizens unequally.

I see again that because one is employed by the government that one is more moral than someone who is not. I see that as simply biased and not reasonable. I also see maybe an inference that government employees are more educated than non government employees. I don't know that you can or can not support such an assertion. But in my experience in government and corporations employees are selected, maintained and promoted more on who they know than what they know.

 

[Kurmugeon]

"Designated White Caucasian" is Government Code-Speak for "Don't Qualify for Nutt'in 'cause we done said you was BORN-GUILTY" and we like it like that!

Never mind the fact that by their own Census, there are 2.2 White Americans living with incomes below the poverty line, for every Black American living on an income below the poverty line.

If you are unfortunate enough to be both White, Male, and born into poverty, the American Government will give you less help than they give to Bill Gate's Son, on account of your "White Privilege".



When you fail, they "Designate it Progress", and Jeer, Cheer and Smear...

Poor-White-Americans have every reason and right to hate their Government.

The Irony is, pampered, preferred, "Qualified" Black-Americans, poor or not, do all the Hating of Everyone not themselves, be they Government or not.

Go Figure!?

-

 

[tres borrachos]

Ok so I am not sure where to put this thread because it is broad spectrum. I thought about because of gun control, but it applies to military, law and order, drugs, science, etc. Ad nauseum.

So. Would you say you trust the government in general? Or do you hold them at am arms reach assuming they are morons? Why do you think you would feel one way or the other?

I lean more to dislike. I have dealt with them and worked for the government. And it always seems like a bunch of incompetent morons doing things without thinking long term. But that is just me.

I don't trust government at all.

 

[fmw]

I trust the government to lie every time it is politically expedient to do so.

 

[Unrepresented]

I would argue that corporations and big money are more like government than capitalist entities, and of course they are products og government.

And we can vote for CEO's and tycoons if we own stock.

You can ignore the CEO of GE and he can not take your property or diminish your liberty. You can vote for the CEO of a government, but, given enough power and influence they can and have shown a propensity to through history, take your property and diminish your liberty.

Have you ever thought about why it is that some people seek power? That desire has nothing to do with our liberty. I have no doubt that there are some politicians who genuinely seek "the common good." To varying degrees most of them are more interested in what is good for them. That's easily seen by looking at all the perks they votes for themselves and what they do that is more about getting them re-elected than doing what's right for the country.

I see the "power seeking" thing as a wash: the same people who want to be elected aren't too far off the people who want to corporate promotions.

Ultimately someone is always trying to take my liberty for themselves. The CEO's goal is profit at the expense of employees, customers, the environment, the economy, families, etc. The accountability is to shareholders returns. I can't vote without having capital, and even if I do, the obligation of their task is frequently immoral (IMO) goals.

The elected official has accountability to the majority of voters as well as to the other branches of government, the Constitution, case law, etc. and I am entitled to vote no matter my financial state, and my vote is of equal value to every billionaire, celebrity, clergy member, and topless dancer.

 

[Thoreau72]

I trust the government about as far as I can throw it.

 

[Respecthelect]

trying to take my liberty for themselves. The CEO's...

Yet the CEO has no power to take your liberty. He begs you, markets to you, kisses your butt, but he never uses force. Only the government uses (and abuses) force.

 

[Ockham]

I generally trust the government when it's their asses on the line. If whatever the subject matter is, has little to no direct effect on the government or the governmental group themselves - no I don't trust them. Government unfortunately is run by politicians who are cheats and liars and when they're not kissing babies they're stealing their lollipops (Hunt for Red October reference), but when it's their asses on the line you better believe they will at least make it appear they are doing the right thing for everyone. The governmental employees report to these politicians or political appointees so... really.... can we expect the political employees to do the right thing when their bosses tell them not to? Not so much I think...

 

[braymoore]

I prefer to keep my eye out but I usually can "generally" trust them. I'm kinda forced to. I really don't want to worry about what they could be doing better and what their prime concerns need to be. I have more important things to worry about in my day to day life. This is me being very honest. I mean when I take the time to sit down and read about what's going on and such then I believe that I am very different as to when I am super busy with life and have to much going on. But to answer the question that was asked; yes, I "generally" trust the government.

 

[Unrepresented]

Yet the CEO has no power to take your liberty. He begs you, markets to you, kisses your butt, but he never uses force. Only the government uses (and abuses) force.

The CEO wields power. Anyone who controls a multimillion (or billion) dollar company has power. Most of us rely on them directly or indirectly to earn our income, and in a capitalist society that's an extreme amount of power.

 

[LagerHead]

Ok so I am not sure where to put this thread because it is broad spectrum. I thought about because of gun control, but it applies to military, law and order, drugs, science, etc. Ad nauseum.

So. Would you say you trust the government in general? Or do you hold them at am arms reach assuming they are morons? Why do you think you would feel one way or the other?

I lean more to dislike. I have dealt with them and worked for the government. And it always seems like a bunch of incompetent morons doing things without thinking long term. But that is just me.

I worked for the government long enough to know that they are basically an incompetence vacuum at all levels. On the rare occasion that you find someone that is both competent and motivated, the competence is covered up like IRS emails and the motivation is beaten out of them. One of the most reliable truisms I have ever heard about government came from a friend of mine when I asked him about his time working for the state.

Me: "How many people work there?"
Him: "About 15% of them."