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do you cut spaghetti with a knife?

Emlee said:
No cutting, twirl it on the plate, no spoon.

I’m Italian, both sets of grandparents came over from Italy, the only one in our house growing up to use a spoon to twirl was my father, he had it down to an art form, not sure why none of us picked it up.

Also where I grew up pasta wasn’t called pasta it was called macaroni or homemades, pasta sauce was called gravy, and salad was eaten last, with only vinegar and oil dressing, so it could be mixed with the gravy that was left on the plate. I still do that.
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I still make Sunday Gravy from scratch every 6 weeks or so - on Sundays!!!!!. I usually have to tell people what it is when I talk about it.
 
Hate to burst anyone’s bubble, but spaghetti and meatballs is a dish from the U.S.

In my parents’ home, macaroni referred to only one shape of pasta. “Spaghetti” could also be with spaghettini, or angel’s hair pasta. Tagliatelle occasionally.

Domestic life was punctuated by mild disputes centered on differing cuisines between northern Italy (mother’s tradition - team butter) and central Italy (father’s side - team olive oil). Also risotto v pasta, mangiaformaggio v mangiafagioli (cheese eaters v bean eaters). Both sides agreed that stuffed pasta — generically referred to as ravioli — was heavenly, but saved for special occasions.

Pasta sauce was simply called sauce or sugo, and gravy was never used to refer to anything but that greasy mess made with meat drippings (/end gravy editorial comment).

No pasta sauce ever found its way into a salad — that’s what a fresh tomato is for. Dressing = olive oil and wine vinegar.

I wonder if the generic usage of macaroni and gravy is an East Coast thing? Never heard of it here in Los Angeles.
 
venice_ca said:
Hate to burst anyone’s bubble, but spaghetti and meatballs is a dish from the U.S.

In my parents’ home, macaroni referred to only one shape of pasta. “Spaghetti” could also be with spaghettini, or angel’s hair pasta. Tagliatelle occasionally.

Domestic life was punctuated by mild disputes centered on differing cuisines between northern Italy (mother’s tradition - team butter) and central Italy (father’s side - team olive oil). Also risotto v pasta, mangiaformaggio v mangiafagioli (cheese eaters v bean eaters). Both sides agreed that stuffed pasta — generically referred to as ravioli — was heavenly, but saved for special occasions.

Pasta sauce was simply called sauce or sugo, and gravy was never used to refer to anything but that greasy mess made with meat drippings (/end gravy editorial comment).

No pasta sauce ever found its way into a salad — that’s what a fresh tomato is for. Dressing = olive oil and wine vinegar.

I wonder if the generic usage of macaroni and gravy is an East Coast thing? Never heard of it here in Los Angeles.
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Different regions, different dialects, different recipes.
 
gman said:
Different regions, different dialects, different recipes.
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But we’re discussing word usage in North America — gravy and macaroni — not what is used in Italy (where each type of pasta is named by its shape, not genetically, as are the different sauces).
 
venice_ca said:
But we’re discussing word usage in North America — gravy and macaroni — not what is used in Italy (where each type of pasta is named by its shape, not genetically, as are the different sauces).
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The word usage here was brought over by our immigrant families and pronunciations were bastardized by their offspring or made to fit into the American vernacular so non Italians could understand.
Who said spaghetti and meatballs is a dish from the U.S.? I have to disagree with you there. In what way is it a just a U.S. thing?
 
Mycroft said:
I do.

I was raised to be a fastidious eater. I detest messy eaters and, if you twirl spaghetti, you will be messy.

My stepfather taught me European table manners. Fork in left hand, knife in right...and I don't put them down unless I'm going to take a drink of something. Elbows in at all times.

I even eat pizza with a fork and knife.
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This mirrors what my own answer would read like, except it was my step-mom who taught us the table manners; her being from Wales. Actually turned out that good table manners was also good at any mess hall; be it with enlisted ranks, or the officers mess.

In fact, it was the chopping up of the dried noodles in my Cup Noodle thingy that then taught me how to turn that seemingly simple "meal" into a real meal. Dried shrimp, vegetables can make that Cup Noodle into a good meal. But you have to get that underside broken free to make the extra room for the dried additions. Super neat trick that company learned about with that Cup Noodle product.

And if you add that Latvia Banga smoked sardines using a separate bowl arrangement you can turn that Cup Noodles into a mighty fine meal. BUT that oil them Latvia people use is tough on an old man's digestive system. You know, that "good thing the outhouse is in the house now" tough.
 
medi said:
This mirrors what my own answer would read like, except it was my step-mom who taught us the table manners; her being from Wales. Actually turned out that good table manners was also good at any mess hall; be it with enlisted ranks, or the officers mess.

In fact, it was the chopping up of the dried noodles in my Cup Noodle thingy that then taught me how to turn that seemingly simple "meal" into a real meal. Dried shrimp, vegetables can make that Cup Noodle into a good meal. But you have to get that underside broken free to make the extra room for the dried additions. Super neat trick that company learned about with that Cup Noodle product.

And if you add that Latvia Banga smoked sardines using a separate bowl arrangement you can turn that Cup Noodles into a mighty fine meal. BUT that oil them Latvia people use is tough on an old man's digestive system. You know, that "good thing the outhouse is in the house now" tough.
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I also break up Ramen noodles before I nuke them.

I won't ever eat noodles like a Korean.
 
Mycroft said:
I also break up Ramen noodles before I nuke them.

I won't ever eat noodles like a Korean.
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Yep, I even have a wooden stick thing I use to beat the pack of the instant ramen noodles. Not sure where that stick thing came from, but just the right size and all varnished or some such style. Just have to be very careful how one hits on the package, so as not to break it.

And I also do that adding of all sorts of extras to a cooking of the instant noodles.

But all that is only because I am probably the worst cook on the planet. If boiling hot water can do the trick, I'm all for it.
 
Integrityrespec said:
Twirl, but not with a spoon. Proper Italians don't do this, except maybe small children. Wife's mother full Italian, been all over Italy, they don't twirl with a spoon, just do it with the fork against the plate or dish.
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I am a proper Italian. We all twirl with a spoon. Did so in Italy as well. When I asked for a spoon at a US restaurant, it was brought with the waiter saying, “nice Italian boy, using a spoon.” To be fair, maybe this comes from people who don’t break the spaghetti or linguine in half before dropping it into the boiling water and have to deal with full length pasta.

Off topic, but great story I heard in Italy. My young son loved spaghetti with garlic and oil, which I had as a kid on meatless Fridays. He was eating that dish on the sidewalk outside an Italian restaurant in Sicily when the owner/cook came out to chat. He told us that spaghetti with oil and garlic was called “pasta cornutu.” That mean’s cuckold’s pasta. Explanation: Woman is with her lover and they oversleep til say, close to noon. Hubby coming home soon for the main midday meal, but there is no time for the 3-hour process of making traditional sauce. So she shoves lover out the door and makes the quick garlic and oil pasta.

Recipe: fry garlic in oil, adding a bit of water when it just starts to brown. Add flaked red pepper to taste now or at the table. That becomes the sauce for the pasta you are boiling. Toss pasta with chopped curly parsley and serve with grated cheese. Pasta cornutu. Mom felt embarrassed to serve what she called a “peasant’s dish,” but we loved it.
 
Nickyjo said:
I am a proper Italian. We all twirl with a spoon. Did so in Italy as well. When I asked for a spoon at a US restaurant, it was brought with the waiter saying, “nice Italian boy, using a spoon.” To be fair, maybe this comes from people who don’t break the spaghetti or linguine in half before dropping it into the boiling water and have to deal with full length pasta.

Off topic, but great story I heard in Italy. My young son loved spaghetti with garlic and oil, which I had as a kid on meatless Fridays. He was eating that dish on the sidewalk outside an Italian restaurant in Sicily when the owner/cook came out to chat. He told us that spaghetti with oil and garlic was called “pasta cornutu.” That mean’s cuckold’s pasta. Explanation: Woman is with her lover and they oversleep til say, close to noon. Hubby coming home soon for the main midday meal, but there is no time for the 3-hour process of making traditional sauce. So she shoves lover out the door and makes the quick garlic and oil pasta.

Recipe: fry garlic in oil, adding a bit of water when it just starts to brown. Add flaked red pepper to taste now or at the table. That becomes the sauce for the pasta you are boiling. Toss pasta with chopped curly parsley and serve with grated cheese. Pasta cornutu. Mom felt embarrassed to serve what she called a “peasant’s dish,” but we loved it.
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I do that with butter instead of oil. Very good. Parmesan cheese melted into it, too.
 
Nickyjo said:
I am a proper Italian. We all twirl with a spoon. Did so in Italy as well. When I asked for a spoon at a US restaurant, it was brought with the waiter saying, “nice Italian boy, using a spoon.” To be fair, maybe this comes from people who don’t break the spaghetti or linguine in half before dropping it into the boiling water and have to deal with full length pasta.

Off topic, but great story I heard in Italy. My young son loved spaghetti with garlic and oil, which I had as a kid on meatless Fridays. He was eating that dish on the sidewalk outside an Italian restaurant in Sicily when the owner/cook came out to chat. He told us that spaghetti with oil and garlic was called “pasta cornutu.” That mean’s cuckold’s pasta. Explanation: Woman is with her lover and they oversleep til say, close to noon. Hubby coming home soon for the main midday meal, but there is no time for the 3-hour process of making traditional sauce. So she shoves lover out the door and makes the quick garlic and oil pasta.

Recipe: fry garlic in oil, adding a bit of water when it just starts to brown. Add flaked red pepper to taste now or at the table. That becomes the sauce for the pasta you are boiling. Toss pasta with chopped curly parsley and serve with grated cheese. Pasta cornutu. Mom felt embarrassed to serve what she called a “peasant’s dish,” but we loved it.
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When broccoli rabe was in season my mother added it the pasta e olio which was usually linguine.
 
gman said:
When broccoli rabe was in season my mother added it the pasta e olio which was usually linguine.
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Ugh. Broccoli rabe was invented by the devil. Bitter stuff. But as the Latin saying goes, “de gustibus non est disputandum.” Trans: taste is not to be argued.
 
Nickyjo said:
Ugh. Broccoli rabe was invented by the devil. Bitter stuff. But as the Latin saying goes, “de gustibus non est disputandum.” Trans: taste is not to be argued.
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I was surprised to learn that it’s a member of the mustard greens family and it’s also called Chinese broccoli.
 
gman said:
The word usage here was brought over by our immigrant families and pronunciations were bastardized by their offspring or made to fit into the American vernacular so non Italians could understand.
Who said spaghetti and meatballs is a dish from the U.S.? I have to disagree with you there. In what way is it a just a U.S. thing?
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There is no word similar to gravy in the Italian language. There’s nothing in common between a tomato sauce and the typical meat gravy that Americans prepare.

My sense is that the word is something used on the East Coast or Midwest as part of the local vernacular, a tradition that continues even as its original purpose, whatever that may have been, has long since been moot — an americanata as Italians would say.

Sugo, sughino, sughetto — are the Italian equivalents of the English word sauce.

My Italian family has NEVER referred to a pasta sauce as gravy, but they settled directly in California and never lived anywhere else in the U.S. Again, macaroni refers to pasta of a particular shape, not all pasta. When speaking with family members there’s no need to substitute English words for proper understanding. It’s a point of pride in Italian cooking to pair the appropriate pasta with the specific sauce — not macaroni for everything.

I thought it was well known that spaghetti and meatballs originated in New York City. The meat course is separate in Italy, coming after the first course of pasta or soup. Meat can be incorporated in the sauce as in alla bolognese, but not as meatballs.
 
venice_ca said:
There is no word similar to gravy in the Italian language. There’s nothing in common between a tomato sauce and the typical meat gravy that Americans prepare.

My sense is that the word is something used on the East Coast or Midwest as part of the local vernacular, a tradition that continues even as its original purpose, whatever that may have been, has long since been moot — an americanata as Italians would say.

Sugo, sughino, sughetto — are the Italian equivalents of the English word sauce.

My Italian family has NEVER referred to a pasta sauce as gravy, but they settled directly in California and never lived anywhere else in the U.S. Again, macaroni refers to pasta of a particular shape, not all pasta. When speaking with family members there’s no need to substitute English words for proper understanding. It’s a point of pride in Italian cooking to pair the appropriate pasta with the specific sauce — not macaroni for everything.

I thought it was well known that spaghetti and meatballs originated in New York City. The meat course is separate in Italy, coming after the first course of pasta or soup. Meat can be incorporated in the sauce as in alla bolognese, but not as meatballs.
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Not so sure. My mom’s recipe for her ragú included meatballs, at times a roll of pork skin that wasn’t eaten, and the wonderful beef roll known as bracciole, which is very thin round steak laid out flat, pounded, then spread with chopped parsley, chopped hard boiled egg, small amount of chopped garlic and Parmesan cheese. You roll this up, tie it with cooking string, brown it in some chopped onion and oil and add it to the sauce. If done well, which I don’t always do, it’s magnificent.
 
venice_ca said:
There is no word similar to gravy in the Italian language. There’s nothing in common between a tomato sauce and the typical meat gravy that Americans prepare.

My sense is that the word is something used on the East Coast or Midwest as part of the local vernacular, a tradition that continues even as its original purpose, whatever that may have been, has long since been moot — an americanata as Italians would say.

Sugo, sughino, sughetto — are the Italian equivalents of the English word sauce.

My Italian family has NEVER referred to a pasta sauce as gravy, but they settled directly in California and never lived anywhere else in the U.S. Again, macaroni refers to pasta of a particular shape, not all pasta. When speaking with family members there’s no need to substitute English words for proper understanding. It’s a point of pride in Italian cooking to pair the appropriate pasta with the specific sauce — not macaroni for everything.

I thought it was well known that spaghetti and meatballs originated in New York City. The meat course is separate in Italy, coming after the first course of pasta or soup. Meat can be incorporated in the sauce as in alla bolognese, but not as meatballs.
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Okay. I understand what you’re saying now.👍
 
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