- Joined
- Jan 12, 2005
- Messages
- 23,580
- Reaction score
- 12,388
- Location
- New Mexico
- Gender
- Female
- Political Leaning
- Independent
steen said:You TRULY are utterly ignorant of the US Constitution. It's purpose is majorly to protect the minorities from the "tyrrany of the majority." Your very comment here shows how truly ignorant you are of these matters.
Per the US Constitution, yes they are. And this has been explained to you and you simply reject it. hence you are now outright lying. This is disappointing as I had not taken you for an outright liar.
But the individual right of not having religion forced on them IS being violated here. So your clkaim is false.
So you spit on on the US Constitution. Yes, I am not surprised.
Uhum, that wors so well, have a teacher walk with that kid every monent they are in school to prevent bullying. Your remarks are now getting downright stupid.
Yes, they should have to, as long as the one's rights are protected by the US Constitution, in this case the Esstablishment Clause.
AlbqOwl said:Well so much for civility and substantive debate.
It is not incivil to point out where you are ignorant of facts and/or plain wrong. And there was plenty of substance in my post, but just not any that supported your claims.AlbqOwl said:Well so much for civility and substantive debate.
alex said:Prove that this country was founded under godly principles.
The act of writing the pledge is not being interfered with so the author is not having their freedom infringed upon. The act of Congress passing a law making the Pledge the official pledge of this country is unconstitutional as clearly expressed in our First Amendment. Making it mandatory for recitation is also unconstitutional as clearly stated in the same amendment.
Not very "Christisan" like to plagiarize from websites, now is it?Not a Democrat said:Proof
Was America founded as a Christian nation?
26 X World Champs said:Not very "Christisan" like to plagiarize from websites, now is it?
I found this in a nanosecond thru Google:
http://r2rministries.com/history/X0067_America_-_A_Christia.html
BTW - I think the website is BS and the "philosphy" presented is the Christian equivalent to a cult and brain washing.
Did you miss the day in school they taught you about the Constitution? Perhaps instead of posting other people's words you can read the Constitution and try to grasp it's meaning?
Do you think quoting certain individuals supercedes The Constitution? Don't you think for every quote that was plagiarized there's another quote from the opposite point of view waiting to be plagiarized?
Thank GOD that we have the Constitution to protect us from the exact kind of thinking that it protects us from!
This forum has clearly stated rules against posting complete copyrighted pieces without citing the source and the rules state that you should only post a portion of the piece NOT the complete piece as you did.Not a Democrat said:Thanks, thats mighty democrat of you 2 accuse me of plagiarism. That means you think that I came up with that. No it's not mine. Thats why there are these little thing " " " " meaning the words above were from someone Else's mouthes. They are called quotes. :roll:
:rofl You think because a propaganda piece comes up in Google multiple times it means that it's FACT? :dohNot a Democrat said:Also the site you found is not the site that I got them from. I got them from HTTP://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0192_America_-_A_Christian.HTML. This information comes up multiple times from different sites only proof to me that it is 100% fact.
You know what? I AGREE! 100% true! They also set it up so the American government NEVER EVER take any side re religion, it is totally neutral and ANY attempt to get an endorsement of religion by the government is UNCONSTITUTIONAL...and you know what? The Supreme Court has affirmed this oh so basic and obvious fact.Not a Democrat said:The founding fathers wanted Americans to have the ability to worship whatever God they wanted or even nothing at all.
Not a Democrat said:Thanks, thats mighty democrat of you 2 accuse me of plagiarism. That means you think that I came up with that. No it's not mine. Thats why there are these little thing " " " " meaning the words above were from someone Else's mouthes. They are called quotes. :roll:
Also the site you found is not the site that I got them from. I got them from HTTP://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0192_America_-_A_Christian.HTML. This information comes up multiple times from different sites only proof to me that it is 100% fact.
You can think it is BS if you want to. I don't care. It is fact and no matter how much liberals, atheists, and communists democrats hate it, you can't change it... By fact I mean that the founding fathers based alot of their decisions upon the Christian religion. You want proof, dig for it, it's there.
Yes I have read the constitution (isn't this flaming). It has been taken so far out of context by libs, claiming that religion never played any part of the founding decision of this country. They call "separation of church and state" Introduced into the constitution in the 1900S (far after the deaths of the founding fathers). This a founding principal of this country because the govt and catholic church in england made the decisions side by side. Basically this decision was made to allow the govt to stand on its own 2 feet. The freedom of religion portion was based upon the rising popularity of the prodistant church (several founding fathers were prodistants). The Catholic church persecuted prodistants for blasphemy against God. The founding fathers wanted Americans to have the ability to worship whatever God they wanted or even nothing at all.
Etc, etc. This obviously was lifted from somewhere, somewhere you forgot to credit which surely is a copyright violation. Funny how conservatives apparently now believe that private property should be abolished? Kind of a commie thing to doNot a Democrat said:Proof
Etc, etc, pages of stuff, much of it from BEFORE the US COnstitution was ratified, and some of these directly ILLEGAL per the Constitution, such as this part:Was America founded as a Christian nation?
That, of course directly violates the US Constitution. That is clear evidence that all the little irrelevant things, many of which is even from before the Declaration of Independence, whatever relevance you thought that might have, are pintless. What DOES matter is what the US Constitution says is the Establishment Clause:Eleven of the first 13 States required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as qualification for holding public office.
Not a Democrat said:I get hit by mods for not posting a link (first 2 hours on this forum, my appologies, my bad, I wasn't taking credit my self, as mentioned above " " " " these mean it is a quote..At least I can admit my own mistake unlike your poster boy of 04) but name calling, isn't that flaming and against forum policy also. Not a very "people person" liberal democrat. Typical :roll:
Hmm, that sure is illogical. It means that he reocgnized that you had NOT written it, but that you didn't attributre the sourceNot a Democrat said:Thanks, thats mighty democrat of you 2 accuse me of plagiarism. That means you think that I came up with that.
Really? That is a fascinating claim. If the same info shows up on several sites that copy from each oither, then the information automatically is "100% fact"? That sounds very illogical and even downright stupid. So please elaborate on that cliam of your, so we can be sure that you are NOT as stupid as what that remark gave you out to be. Please assure us that we merely misunderstood you.Also the site you found is not the site that I got them from. I got them from HTTP://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0192_America_-_A_Christian.HTML. This information comes up multiple times from different sites only proof to me that it is 100% fact.
If it is "fact," then there was solidly backed-up independedn evidence.You can think it is BS if you want to. I don't care. It is fact
Some did, some didn't. That's irrelevant. What IS relevant is the Establishment Clause. Your attempt at pretending that it doesn't exist shows you to be either dishonest or so stuck in wishful thinking that you will reject reality for your wishful thiniing and beliefs to the contrary.and no matter how much liberals, atheists, and communists democrats hate it, you can't change it... By fact I mean that the founding fathers based alot of their decisions upon the Christian religion.
Oh, another dishonest conservative ploy. Make a false claim ,a dn then make it the other side's job to disprove the lie. So we now have FURTHER evidence of how dishonest you are. Shame on you. But perhaps Conservatives now feel that outright lying is a family value?You want proof, dig for it, it's there.
So you surely are not claiming that the Establishment Clause doesn't exist, are you?Yes I have read the constitution (isn't this flaming).
What base religion played in the founding is completely irrelevant. What DOES matter is what the law says. yes, I am aware that the law goes against what you would want, and that you therefore have to pull on all these extra-legal points to even HAVE a point, never mind how contrived and contradictory to the US Constitution text itself. It is always easy to recognize when people like you are trying to be deceptive. You start going to all sorts of irrelevant sources, bringing up all sorts of irrelevant points while completely ignoring the actual law itself.It has been taken so far out of context by libs, claiming that religion never played any part of the founding decision of this country.
steen said:Etc, etc. This obviously was lifted from somewhere, somewhere you forgot to credit which surely is a copyright violation. Funny how conservatives apparently now believe that private property should be abolished? Kind of a commie thing to do
Etc, etc, pages of stuff, much of it from BEFORE the US COnstitution was ratified, and some of these directly ILLEGAL per the Constitution, such as this part:
That, of course directly violates the US Constitution. That is clear evidence that all the little irrelevant things, many of which is even from before the Declaration of Independence, whatever relevance you thought that might have, are pintless. What DOES matter is what the US Constitution says is the Establishment Clause:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
So you can ramble and yammer about rights of religion and whatnot, but THIS is the only thing that matters. The Government can NOT legally establish a religion in the US, it can not impose one religion as the recognized one, and not inflict its practices on others.
All the rest of your attempts at presenting your wishful thinking as "fact," merely shows how dishonest the theocrats are. Yes, you want to circumvent the US Constitution because it doesn't allow you to impose on others, and you hate it. You want it to not be so.
Your un-American disrespect for the foundation for what makes us all Americans is duly noted. The anti-patriotism of the fundie rightwing theocrats is duly noted in posts like your and those of your fellow conservative fundies.
There sure are a lot of non-sequitors in there.Not a Democrat said:Everything between the name calling does not make since. It is kinda funny that the writers of the constitution made it illegal for themselves to hold office because of their beliefs. You are completely taking the constitution way out of context.
If you don't want anything to do with religion in schools with something once called patriotic then enroll your kids or yourself in a private school or home school them. Something that has worked for the past several decades needs not be changed. I'm not even going about this in a religious point of view, but as an American point of view.
It is the discusting deceitfull anti American actions of your liberal party that will remove all rights to own anything. The actions of your beloved ACLU and it's communistic views will remove all sovereignty of this great nation. This pathetic robin hood "spread the wealth" attitude takes away the livelyhood of the people who bust their rear ends to make a decent living and give it to the good for nothing lazy people with no desire to do anything for them selves attitude will ruin this country. I happen to like my house, my land, and my successful business and want to keep it that way, without government involvement.
steen said:Hmm, that sure is illogical. It means that he reocgnized that you had NOT written it, but that you didn't attributre the source
That is plagiarism, and it is also a copyright violation. It measn that you are dishonest. Are conservatives dishonest? Is it ONLY YOU who are dishonest? Or was it merely an oversight that you "forgot" to list the source?
Really? That is a fascinating claim. If the same info shows up on several sites that copy from each oither, then the information automatically is "100% fact"? That sounds very illogical and even downright stupid. So please elaborate on that cliam of your, so we can be sure that you are NOT as stupid as what that remark gave you out to be. Please assure us that we merely misunderstood you.
If it is "fact," then there was solidly backed-up independedn evidence.
To claim that a "because I say so" posatulation somehow is a fact without any actual evidence is, of course, outright lying. Are you a liar?
Some did, some didn't. That's irrelevant. What IS relevant is the Establishment Clause. Your attempt at pretending that it doesn't exist shows you to be either dishonest or so stuck in wishful thinking that you will reject reality for your wishful thiniing and beliefs to the contrary.
There is a name for that. It is called "DELUSION."
Oh, another dishonest conservative ploy. Make a false claim ,a dn then make it the other side's job to disprove the lie. So we now have FURTHER evidence of how dishonest you are. Shame on you. But perhaps Conservatives now feel that outright lying is a family value?
So you surely are not claiming that the Establishment Clause doesn't exist, are you?
What base religion played in the founding is completely irrelevant. What DOES matter is what the law says. yes, I am aware that the law goes against what you would want, and that you therefore have to pull on all these extra-legal points to even HAVE a point, never mind how contrived and contradictory to the US Constitution text itself. It is always easy to recognize when people like you are trying to be deceptive. You start going to all sorts of irrelevant sources, bringing up all sorts of irrelevant points while completely ignoring the actual law itself.
I am saddened and disappointed by the dishonesty of your arguments, but I am not surprised. That should tell you something about how our experience with conservative lies and deceptions is common-place, how conservatives so often bear False Witness. Not that I expect it to bother you any, your post already have shown such a lack of honesty and arguments in good faith that you simply can not credibly claim to want an honest discussion. So be it.
Well, enough of this. I can't be bothered spending much time on liars and dishonest cheats.
Kelzie said:[mod mode]
Calm down. I didn't hit ya. Just a friendly little reminder. :2wave:
If you believe that someone was flaming, there's a little triangle with an exclamation point inside that you can use to report the post (it's on the bottom left), and the mod team will look over it.
[/mod mode]
How so? Nothing prohibited Christians from holding office. It was forbidden to INSIST that they were Christians. Perhaps you misread that part? I hope so, because your argument simply doesn't make sense otherwise. Unless you were mistaken, your post is dingbat.Not a Democrat said:Everything between the name calling does not make since. It is kinda funny that the writers of the constitution made it illegal for themselves to hold office because of their beliefs.
How so? The US Constitution specified that it was illegal to require a religious affiliation in order to hold office. Some of the examples you cited in your irrelevant, long example were about office holders being required to be of a religion. So how am I taking anything out fo context by pointiong out that such requirements went against what was Established in the US Constitution?You are completely taking the constitution way out of context.
HUH? You REALLY aren't making sense here. What is it exactly you are trying to say here?If you don't want anything to do with religion in schools with something once called patriotic then enroll your kids or yourself in a private school or home school them.
The American view is that the US Constitution is the foundation for our rights and duties as American Citizens. So what works is what follows the US Constitution. IF you want to operate outside the US Constitution, feel free to do so, but don't operate in the public sphere where you will violate others Constitutional rights.Something that has worked for the past several decades needs not be changed. I'm not even going about this in a religious point of view, but as an American point of view.
Huh? You are talking about communism, not about liberals. MUST you continue to display such an amazing level of ignorance. Is there ANYTHING that you actually understand and know about. The topics you have delved into sofar has only underscored that you ARE ignorant of these areas.It is the discusting deceitfull anti American actions of your liberal party that will remove all rights to own anything.
Well, THAT is an interesting viewpoint. The ACLU mission is to challenge unconstitutional laws.Your opposition to them is an opposition to the US Constitution. So I was right in my suspicion. You ARE against the US Constitution.The actions of your beloved ACLU and it's communistic views will remove all sovereignty of this great nation.
Really? I actually quote the law and deal with what the law says. Your claim that your wishful thinking trumps the law is much more an indication of rejection of the law.Not a Democrat said:You obviously don't care about what the law says.
Not a Democrat said:Proof
A careful look into the past reveals landmarks which were essential in guiding America along the pathway that led us to where we are today. More often than not, at each one of these landmarks, there also appears irrefutable evidence that a sense of divine destiny accompanied the most important events of our history.
Here in part are some of these landmarks:
1490-1492 - Columbus' commission was given to set out to find a new world.
According to Columbus' personal log, his purpose in seeking undiscovered worlds was to "bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the heathens. .... It was the Lord who put into my mind ... that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies ... I am the most unworthy sinner, but I have cried out to the Lord for grace and mercy, and they have covered me completely ... No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His holy service." (Columbus' Book of Prophecies)
April 10, 1606 - The Charter for the Virginia Colony read in part:
"To the glory of His divine Majesty, in propagating of the Christian religion to such people as yet live in ignorance of the true knowledge and worship of God."
November 3, 1620 - King James I grants the Charter of the Plymouth council.
"In the hope thereby to advance the enlargement of the Christian religion, to the glory of God Almighty."
November 11, 1620 - The Pilgrims sign the Mayflower Compact aboard the Mayflower, in Plymouth harbor.
"For the glory of God and advancement of ye Christian faith ... doe by these presents solemnly & mutually in ye presence of God and one of another, covenant & combine our selves togeather into a civill body politick."
March 4, 1629 - The first Charter of Massachusetts read in part:
"For the directing, ruling, and disposeing of all other Matters and Thinges, whereby our said People may be soe religiously, peaceablie, and civilly governed, as their good life and orderlie Conversacon, maie wynn and incite the Natives of the Country to the Knowledg and Obedience of the onlie true God and Savior of Mankinde, and the Christian Fayth, which in our Royall Intencon, and The Adventurers free profession, is the principall Ende of the Plantacion.."
January 14, 1638 - The towns of Hartford, Weathersfield and Windsor adopt the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut.
"To mayntayne and presearve the liberty and purity of the Gospell of our Lord Jesus, which we now professe..."
August 4, 1639 - The governing body of New Hampshire is established.
"Considering with ourselves the holy will of God and our own necessity, that we should not live without wholesome laws and civil government among us, of which we are altogether destitute, do, in the name of Christ and in the sight of God, combine ourselves together to erect and set up among us such government as shall be, to our best discerning, agreeable to the will of God..."
April 3, 1644 - The New Haven Colony adopts their charter.
"That the judicial laws of God, as they were delivered by Moses ... be a rule to all the courts in this jurisdiction ..."
April 21, 1649 - The Maryland Toleration Act is passed.
"Be it therefor ... enacted ... that no person or persons whatsoever within this province ... professing to believe in Jesus Christ shall ... henceforth be any ways troubled, molested (or disapproved of) ... in respect of his or her religion nor in the free exercise thereof ..."
April 25, 1689 - The Great Law of Pennsylvania is passed.
"Whereas the glory of Almighty God and the good of mankind is the reason and the end of government ... therefore government itself is a venerable ordinance of God ..."
May 20, 1775 - North Carolina passes the Mecklenburg County Resolutions.
"We hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people; are, and of a right ought to be, a sovereign and self-governing association, under control of no other power than that of our God and the general government of Congress."
Summer 12, 1775 - Continental Congress issues a call to all citizens to fast and pray and confess their sin that the Lord might bless the land.
"And it is recommended to Christians of all denominations, to assemble for public worship, and to abstain from servile labor and recreation on said day."
Summer 2-4, 1776 - Declaration of Independence written and signed.
"We hold these truths ... that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights ... appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world ... And for the support of this Declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence..."
September 17, 1787 - The Constitution of the United States is finished.
At least 50 out of the 55 men who framed the Constitution of the United States were professing Christians. (M.E. Bradford, A Worthy Company, Plymouth Rock Foundation., 1982).
Eleven of the first 13 States required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as qualification for holding public office.
The Constitution of each of the 50 States acknowledges and calls upon the Providence of God for the blessings of freedom.
1787 - James Madison, the "architect" of the federal Constitution and fourth president:
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future .. upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God."
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?