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Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  • Yes

    Votes: 68 54.4%
  • No

    Votes: 57 45.6%

  • Total voters
    125
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Navy Pride

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Well and activist liberal judge from the 9th circuit court in San Francisco has struck again today striking the word "Under God" from the Pledge of Alegiance....

It will go to the SCOTUS and be struck down but what are your thoughts?
 

SKILMATIC

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Yes. It should be in there twice actually. To say the majority of founding fathers and the majority of first settlers had no incling to religion is the biggest lie anyone has ever told. That is a fact.
 

Alex

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SKILMATIC said:
Yes. It should be in there twice actually. To say the majority of founding fathers and the majority of first settlers had no incling to religion is the biggest lie anyone has ever told. That is a fact.
Of course they had an inkling. It was that inkling that made them decide to remove religion from government. People came here to escape religious governments. Whether the majority of people were one religion or another is of no relevance. They experienced the problems that came along with mixing government and religion and decided to outlaw it, as it is apparent in our Constitution.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

How did "under god" get into our Pledge? Congress passed a law that inserted it there. This clearly violates the Establishment Clause.

These are not "activist liberal judges". Define this term. It does not mean judges who are doing their jobs to protect religious freedom as is the case with striking down "under god" in our pledge.

"If a religion is truly good, it does not need government assistance or sponsorship; it will stand on its own two feet."
 

SKILMATIC

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Separation from chruch and state never occured. That is a fact.
 

Mixed View

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I think it should be in there because it is a part of our history. Plus, if you are not a Christian I think "under god" is speaking of a higher power and not the Christian God.
 

SKILMATIC

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I think it should be in there because it is a part of our history. Plus, if you are not a Christian I think "under god" is speaking of a higher power and not the Christian God.
Bingo!!! HALLELUJA HALLELUJA!!!

Very well objectively put.
 

Alex

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SKILMATIC said:
Separation from chruch and state never occured. That is a fact.
Then what is the Establishment Clause of our Constitution?
 

SouthernDemocrat

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SKILMATIC said:
Separation from chruch and state never occured. That is a fact.
Yeah it did, the Supreme Court ruled that there is a constitutional separation of church and state. Total religious freedom, (unless it breaks some other law like human sacrifice or something), but you can’t use the government to promote or compel specific religious beliefs.

I don’t understand you radical right wingers. My God is great enough not to need the U.S. Government to promote him. Moreover, if we were to base all of our laws in Christian Law, better get ready for socialism, because the Gospels of Jesus Christ are practically a handbook for it. You can’t just pick and choose what part of the church you want to promote. Remember, Jesus Christ is a Liberal.
 

shuamort

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The last time this go to the SCOTUS, it was not heard on a technicality (Newdow's parental rights). There are two easy ways to knock this down. One, it interferes with the rights of some peoples' religious beliefs. Not just non-christians, but christians as well. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe the pledging allegiance to the flag falls under one of the Ten Commandments about worshipping graven images. Forcing them to recite the pledge would be tantamount to forcing a state religion on them.

Two, SCOTUS has set precedent of the "separation of church and state" in the 1947 ruling of Everson v. Board of Education.
In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.' Reynolds v. United States, supra, 98 U.S. at page 164.
 

Hoot

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Since when do the rights of the few outweigh the rights of the many?

I see nothing wrong with keeping the term "under God" in the pledge. What about the vast majority of parents that prefer to have their children recite the pledge with "under God?" I guess their rights are thrown out the window?

What I find far more offensive is those of you on the right using terms like "liberal activist judge" whenever a decision is made that you don't care for. Who's to say he's not a conservative who is mistakenly, trying to interpret the constitution?
 

FinnMacCool

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I don't see why not. too be honest, I couldn't really care less. But it does seem somehow less authentic.

I'm not very religious so I couldn't really care less whether they keep it or not. I mean I don't think its an absolute neccesity like the hardcore christians but I also don't whine about it like the atheists. So yeah, who cares honestly.
 

SKILMATIC

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Then what is the Establishment Clause of our Constitution?
Again the fact is it never happened.

Yeah it did, the Supreme Court ruled that there is a constitutional separation of church and state. Total religious freedom, (unless it breaks some other law like human sacrifice or something), but you can’t use the government to promote or compel specific religious beliefs.

I don’t understand you radical right wingers. My God is great enough not to need the U.S. Government to promote him. Moreover, if we were to base all of our laws in Christian Law, better get ready for socialism, because the Gospels of Jesus Christ are practically a handbook for it. You can’t just pick and choose what part of the church you want to promote. Remember, Jesus Christ is a Liberal.
again it never occured. Separation never actually really occurred and rightfully so. How will we justify our laws? The morals whether you agree with them or not are from the 10commandments and if you want to argue with that fact then why are they posted in court rooms? Why is every bylaw written under the morality of religions? And not secular ideas? Again the separation never actually occured. The separation from the power of church occured and that was rightfully so but the evidence of this country being founded on religious principles didnt.
 

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Mixed View said:
I think it should be in there because it is a part of our history. Plus, if you are not a Christian I think "under god" is speaking of a higher power and not the Christian God.
It specifically states "god". A god is a supernatural being that many Americans do not believe in, and that number is rapidly growing. What about Americans who do not believe in any gods? Shouldn't they be allowed to recite the Pledge and feel as welcome and patriotic as people who believe?
 

Alex

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Hoot said:
Since when do the rights of the few outweigh the rights of the many?

I see nothing wrong with keeping the term "under God" in the pledge. What about the vast majority of parents that prefer to have their children recite the pledge with "under God?" I guess their rights are thrown out the window?

What I find far more offensive is those of you on the right using terms like "liberal activist judge" whenever a decision is made that you don't care for. Who's to say he's not a conservative who is mistakenly, trying to interpret the constitution?
The rights of the few outweigh the rights of the many when it comes to our Bill of Rights. Without it, we are not a free nation.
 

FinnMacCool

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It specifically states "god". A god is a supernatural being that many Americans do not believe in, and that number is rapidly growing. What about Americans who do not believe in any gods? Shouldn't they be allowed to recite the Pledge and feel as welcome and patriotic as people who believe?
I have an idea. How about we make it say 'One nation under God, Buddha, the force, the dark lord, and science.'

I think people need to learn to pick their battles. some things are just not worth fighting for. Under God is two words and they are insignificant except for the fact that they only show how religious our forefathers were. It doesn't really matter does it?
 

Alex

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SKILMATIC said:
Again the fact is it never happened.



again it never occured. Separation never actually really occurred and rightfully so. How will we justify our laws? The morals whether you agree with them or not are from the 10commandments and if you want to argue with that fact then why are they posted in court rooms? Why is every bylaw written under the morality of religions? And not secular ideas? Again the separation never actually occured. The separation from the power of church occured and that was rightfully so but the evidence of this country being founded on religious principles didnt.
This post is rewriting history and our Constitution. Seems that it understands neither. Our laws are based on common human desire and are applied when that does not infringe on our Bill of Rights. It just so happens that religion is based on that same desire. Religion did not come first.
 

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FinnMacCool said:
I have an idea. How about we make it say 'One nation under God, Buddha, the force, the dark lord, and science.'

I think people need to learn to pick their battles. some things are just not worth fighting for. Under God is two words and they are insignificant except for the fact that they only show how religious our forefathers were. It doesn't really matter does it?
It has nothing to do with our forefathers. "Under god" was not inserted until 1954. The Pledge itself (even without "under god") was not around until far after our forefathers were gone.
 

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This country interprets the laws and the founding of it by what the fathers would have wanted. The fathers would have wanted this country to be founded on godly principles and its evident of that in the wat they created our laws and the constitution.

Now to say that our founding fathers didnt want god to be the foundation and the fore front of this country is rediculous. Yes some didnt have a fnd belief like other fathers did but they understood that it was an important issue to like 99% of americans at that time casue religion was rampent. Remember thats why this country was founded and created becasue of freedom of religion.

NOW freedom of religion doesnt entail one little exerpt in the pledge to this country. It entails your very freedoms of beleif and express of beleif. And the founding fathers beleived that this country needed a law and a morality to stand upon and it was on godly principles.

If the pledge has anything to do with ones freedom of religion which is the real talking pint here then I am sorry but no it doesnt. If it hurts you to hear it then close your ears. Simple as that. You do have the freedom to cover your ears no one it twisting your arms to listen to it. So give me a break..
 

SKILMATIC

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It has nothing to do with our forefathers. "Under god" was not inserted until 1954. The Pledge itself (even without "under god") was not around until far after our forefathers were gone.
I understand this but the talking points doesnt entail the pledge it entails freedom of religion.

The present people who were making the pledge understood that if the fathers were to make one they definitely wouldve shown some acclamation to god.
 

FinnMacCool

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It has nothing to do with our forefathers. "Under god" was not inserted until 1954. The Pledge itself (even without "under god") was not around until far after our forefathers were gone.
good point. I admit defeat.
 

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Navy Pride said:
Well and activist liberal judge from the 9th circuit court in San Francisco has struck again today striking the word "Under God" from the Pledge of Alegiance....

It will go to the SCOTUS and be struck down but what are your thoughts?
Wasn't there to begin with, shouldn't be there now. Lots of citizens do not believe in the Judeo/Christian god so that entity should not be part of our national pledge which is for ALL citizens. Religious faith should not be a part of it.
 

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SKILMATIC said:
This country interprets the laws and the founding of it by what the fathers would have wanted. The fathers would have wanted this country to be founded on godly principles and its evident of that in the wat they created our laws and the constitution.

Now to say that our founding fathers didnt want god to be the foundation and the fore front of this country is rediculous. Yes some didnt have a fnd belief like other fathers did but they understood that it was an important issue to like 99% of americans at that time casue religion was rampent. Remember thats why this country was founded and created becasue of freedom of religion.

NOW freedom of religion doesnt entail one little exerpt in the pledge to this country. It entails your very freedoms of beleif and express of beleif. And the founding fathers beleived that this country needed a law and a morality to stand upon and it was on godly principles.
Prove this. Good luck.

"The fathers would have wanted this country to be founded on godly principles and its evident of that in the wat they created our laws and the constitution. "

Now you are just making things up. Where in our Constitution are "godly principles"?
 
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SKILMATIC said:
I understand this but the talking points doesnt entail the pledge it entails freedom of religion.

The present people who were making the pledge understood that if the fathers were to make one they definitely wouldve shown some acclamation to god.
The talking point does not entail The Pledge? Have you read the title of this thread? Your posts seem to just throw out irrational points with no basis. If the founding fathers wanted to make some acclamation to a god, then why write the Constitution without it? Why create the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment?
 

shuamort

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Mixed View said:
I think it should be in there because it is a part of our history. Plus, if you are not a Christian I think "under god" is speaking of a higher power and not the Christian God.
Slavery is a part of our history as well. Bad argument.
 

SKILMATIC

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Where in our Constitution are "godly principles"?
You cant just look at one piece of literature and conclude anything you must look at the whole picture. The fact is up and down the billl of rights and the ammendments were all provinged by Gods devine human rights.


Religion did not come first.
Your right but God did.
 
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