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To subordinate them to the broader association of individuals.
there it is reality!
so instead of following the constitution, to want to follow what washingtion does based on reality, and not constititonal law.
i can see Madison getting your shoe in his rear as you kick him down the steps of congress while saying" get out of here with your stupid constitution"
You use the phrase "the people" a lot. You mean "some particular people", which obviously is NOT "every person".
When someone uses the term "the people", I know I am dealing with a collectivist, and an intellectually dishonest collectivist to boot.
Perhaps. But they are all still individuals. And the people who voted for them are all still individuals.
None of these particular individuals are "society". They are merely a subset of the total set of individuals in society.
If you can tell me what "society" wants and prefers WITHOUT having those words come out of the mouth of some individual but from "society" itself, then perhaps I will be convinced that this "needs of society" stuff is not simply collectivist claptrap.
Not really an argument you can't hope to win. It was supported by Anglo-English culture, of which most the Fathers were adherents, and starts recorded history when King Athelstan opened the first almshouse in York.
I am astonished at the degree people demand the government control people to the finest detail. Of course, that also means demanding the government control you - ie protect you from yourself.
Way back at the start of this country, a French philosopher named Torqueville toured the USA marveling at this new concept of uneducated people running their own government. While he saw this new concept of almost unrestricted personal freedom as amazing, he predicted it would not last. In his opinion that due to human nature, people would vote to outlaw anything a person does not like or do. Since there is almost nothing everyone agrees on, then ultimately almost everything would be regulated, outlaws or restricted. In short, he predicted Americans would become the most regulated, watched and constrained people with endless new laws and regulations.
What is your opinion of the proper role of government?
it depends on how you define teh freedom
l can say for the second option that people are responsible for the consequences of their own actions as long as these consequences dont harm the others
No it's not. People make the decision to smoke, to eat non healthy food, to not exercise, to skydive, etc. The outcome of their decisions is their responsibility.
For example, ever have been filling up and it doesn't cut off right and a little bit of gas runs down your car and some on the ground. Did you then drive off?
OMG! That's ILLEGAL! YOU committed a hazardous materials spill. Even if not deliberate and you not liable, YOU DID NOT REPORT THE HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SPILL YOU CAUSED! FELONY! FELONY!
And then I get to rage that you grotesquely endangered the lives of others. A bus of children with an electrical short could pull up, and that HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SPILL YOU DID AND DIDN'T REPORT could burn every innocent little child on that bus to death - a horrible way to die! You evil bastard engaging in ILLEGAL dangerous actions without giving a damn about anyone but yourself!
And if I don't drive a car, then I get to rage at you and everyone else in cars as pure evil, willing to burn little children alive, destroy the land, water and air... at least you - because of your ILLEGAL activities!
They are following the Constitution.
When did the federal government under the founders control open up their first almshouse?
I am astonished at the degree people demand the government control people to the finest detail. Of course, that also means demanding the government control you - ie protect you from yourself.
Way back at the start of this country, a French philosopher named Torqueville toured the USA marveling at this new concept of uneducated people running their own government. While he saw this new concept of almost unrestricted personal freedom as amazing, he predicted it would not last. In his opinion that due to human nature, people would vote to outlaw anything a person does not like or do. Since there is almost nothing everyone agrees on, then ultimately almost everything would be regulated, outlaws or restricted. In short, he predicted Americans would become the most regulated, watched and constrained people with endless new laws and regulations.
What is your opinion of the proper role of government?
I am astonished at the degree people demand the government control people to the finest detail. Of course, that also means demanding the government control you - ie protect you from yourself.
Way back at the start of this country, a French philosopher named Torqueville toured the USA marveling at this new concept of uneducated people running their own government. While he saw this new concept of almost unrestricted personal freedom as amazing, he predicted it would not last. In his opinion that due to human nature, people would vote to outlaw anything a person does not like or do. Since there is almost nothing everyone agrees on, then ultimately almost everything would be regulated, outlaws or restricted. In short, he predicted Americans would become the most regulated, watched and constrained people with endless new laws and regulations.
What is your opinion of the proper role of government?
it is at its best when it protects the minority against the tyranny of the majority ....
Right up until the minority think they get to impose their will on the majority, that is.
Your argument has been soundly refuted. And you ignore what has been said to you.
What you are ignoring is the reality that the people in our elected government are acting as much more than mere individuals.
When an individual person is elected by the people to a legislative body, and they are empowered by the people and that body is empowered by the people with authority to act on behalf of the people as its legitimate government, they transcend and go beyond a mere individual. They together become the Congress or they together become the Legislature or they together become the Council. And that is not an individual entity. It is a group entity acting on behalf os society and is empowered by the people to do that.
Continue reading and you will see phrases for collective action for the community - not the individual. Acting for the COMMON DEFENSE and the GENERAL WELFARE. Those are very communitarian concepts that are the opposite of individualism. And its right there in the Constitution of the USA as the purpose of the document.
Catherine Bowen wrote a book called MIRACLE AT PHILADELPHIA about the writing of the Constitution. You should read it. One of the miraculous things about our Constitution and our system of government is that it truly works a miracle in that it transcends normal individual people into much much more - the voice of the people and the people are just another word for society.
And that is the miracle of America. For 225 years we have been trying to balance the needs of society with the needs of the individual.
When an individual person is elected by the people to a legislative body, and they are empowered by the people and that body is empowered by the people with authority to act on behalf of the people as its legitimate government, they transcend and go beyond a mere individual. They together become the Congress or they together become the Legislature or they together become the Council. And that is not an individual entity. It is a group entity acting on behalf os society and is empowered by the people to do that.
"Is it the proper role of government to pass laws to protect you from yourself?"
No, it isn't - but that doesn't preclude welfare and other forms of help we should give to people in certain situations.
To me, things like lead paint are not just protecting you from you - it's protecting others from you.I generally agree that government should not protect me from myself, but at the same time I don't mind not having lead paint as an option even though it may be cheaper and I'm a cheapskate.
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