do you agree with Bill Clinton ?

[hecatmoggie]

other than you displaying your misogyny

looks like you're displaying misandry

 

[BirdinHand]

As long as we have millions of Americans out of work because the "good-paying union jobs" have been outsourced to places like China, Mexico, Indonesia, India, etc. where people are paid a fraction of the wages Americans need in order to afford the costs of living in the USA, then NO! We should not be flooding the USA with millions of people from those very nations who are willing to work for any kind of wages, undercutting native born citizens in the workplace.

Trump needs to bring production work back to the USA. He is also correct in wanting to exploit the vast natural resources available in the USA. That includes oil and natural gas production, mining of precious and other metals, and improving U.S. infrastructure.

The “good paying union jobs” are not the jobs being taken by unskilled labor.

You should really build your strawmen out of better material.

 

[Beruit 1978]

Current valid certifications that I hold:

First aid
CPR
AED
Comprehensive care for persons with diabetes certification
Offshore emergency medical certification

My family business is fishing. I always have active medical related certifications due to the nature of the business and licensing and insurance requirements. When you’re 80 miles from land, no one is coming right away to help you.

Additionally, I am a full time caregiver to an elderly individuals with diabetes and heart problems.


And absolutely NONE of this is at all related to this thread, other than you displaying your misogyny

Misogyny again. Where do you stand on men in women's sports, and boys in girl's sports? Are you ready to stand up, and declare "trans" athletes as misogynists? Or, do we get a hypocritical defense of "trans rights" here?

 

[BirdinHand]

looks like you're displaying misandry

Ok

I feel no need to play games with men who don’t see women as equals.

Call it whatever you like.

 

[choiceone]

but Democrats/Liberals fight hard to keep open borders - millions flowing in illegally every year

Explain it or it's just propaganda. Please include specific examples with good detail.

 

[choiceone]

They say, "we gotta have somebody pick our crops".......what does that remind you of?

As a Japan specialist, I have to say the Japanese of the 1980s onward.

You see, after the Japanese became affluent at last, they really, really didn't want to do what they considered dirty blue collar work, because they thought they were too good for it. The conservative government freaked because, at last, it had to have more immigrants.

At first, they thought anyone would do, but as Muslims came and wore ethnically Middle Eastern clothing and built mosques, the conservatives couldn't stand it, as these things were much worse than European things for blending into the Japanese environment.

So then the government conservatives thought people of Japanese ancestry would be better and they got a lot of Japanese-Brazilian immigrants, only to discover that they weren't ethnically Japanese at all and were much more Brazilian.

Finally, they were willing to accept Japanese Americans as not all that un-Japanese, but by that time, they were just as snooty about dirty blue collar work as Japanese themselves.

So, no, it's not about any particular political party mimicking slaveholders and holdouts for Jim Crow and the Texas white people screaming about wetbacks. It's about people whose families pulled themselves out of dirty blue collar work and not wanting to go back.

 

[redbeer]

As a Japan specialist, I have to say the Japanese of the 1980s onward.

You see, after the Japanese became affluent at last, they really, really didn't want to do what they considered dirty blue collar work, because they thought they were too good for it. The conservative government freaked because, at last, it had to have more immigrants.

At first, they thought anyone would do, but as Muslims came and wore ethnically Middle Eastern clothing and built mosques, the conservatives couldn't stand it, as these things were much worse than European things for blending into the Japanese environment.

So then the government conservatives thought people of Japanese ancestry would be better and they got a lot of Japanese-Brazilian immigrants, only to discover that they weren't ethnically Japanese at all and were much more Brazilian.

Finally, they were willing to accept Japanese Americans as not all that un-Japanese, but by that time, they were just as snooty about dirty blue collar work as Japanese themselves.

So, no, it's not about any particular political party mimicking slaveholders and holdouts for Jim Crow and the Texas white people screaming about wetbacks. It's about people whose families pulled themselves out of dirty blue collar work and not wanting to go back.

"Dirty blue collar work".......that's an amazingly ignorant way to look at hard working people all over the globe, especially Americans. That's a serious societal problem if people become too arrogant and uppity to work hard.

 

[hecatmoggie]

Ok

I feel no need to play games with men who don’t see women as equals.

Call it whatever you like.

and you can tell by their posts how they feel ?

amazing !! what if I can do that with women? I can tell if they're prejudiced towards men and feel men are inferior ?

 

[choiceone]

The issue is the false equivalency of brain dead hospital patients and unborn children. There is no reasoned argument the former are extremely unlikely to improve whereas the latter in most cases will continue to develop. This is what I am telling you.

No, the issue is the false equivalency of a living woman qua person, who is a living mind with a living body, and an implanted human embryo, who is not a person and has absolutely no mind and has no life of its own. This latter is immediately objectively provable by separating the embryo from the woman's living body, at which point it will die more easily than would her finger if you cut it off.

You are someone who does not know the difference between potential and actual, but I do.

I have two grad degrees, but my second one is only another masters and not a PhD, even though I finished my PhD coursework, passed my candidacy test, and began my PhD research. Why should I not call myself a PhD? Because I'm not. I could not continue because I became terribly ill and didn't get better and had to do something completely different with my life. That's the difference between potential and actual.

 

[hecatmoggie]

Explain it or it's just propaganda. Please include specific examples with good detail.

day one of Biden's presidency what did he do with the border and border laws/restrictions ?

and the results ? a boom in illegals pouring across the border

c'mon, you know this

 

[Real blank]

Well taking the question literally there is only two ways to grow the population. If people don’t want to move to America that one is out and if people don’t want to have more kids that one is out. I think the former is more unlikely

 

[choiceone]

you mean after a pregnancy begins ?

After zygote formation, multiplication of cells begins, but at the end of 8-10 days, about 50% of the blastocysts or embryos that zygotes became never actually implant. They die and are eliminated by natural menstruation.

After some blastocysts implant, and unclear number are unstably implanted and fall out and are thus eliminated, which may be as high as 15% in the period before the woman normally realizes she is pregnant (maybe 6 or 7 weeks).

From the time that women normally realize they are pregnant, perhaps at 6 or 7 weeks, onward, girls and women have a natural spontaneous abortion or miscarriage rate of anywhere from 20-25%.

Added up, that means perhaps as many as 85 to 90% of zygotes never become persons or actual human beings.

 

[Beruit 1978]

The “good paying union jobs” are not the jobs being taken by unskilled labor.

You should really build your strawmen out of better material.

The good paying union jobs being outsourced to China is relevant. That leaves union members competing for non-union jobs, along with American citizen workers, and illegal aliens. The cost of living keeps going up, and the available wages are drying up. In short, corporations are trying to impoverish us, so that we'll accept whatever crumbs they throw our way.

 

[choiceone]

No, we don't need immigrants. We need to stop telling women that motherhood is a bad thing. We need to show respect for those women who decide to stay at home, and be full time mothers and housekeepers. We need tax breaks and help for new parents, and old parents. The low fertility rate that Clinton is just now recognizing is a direct result of "progressive" policies. I remember an Obama speech, in which he told women that he didn't WANT THEM to stay at home, and raise children. Girls and women catch it from all angles in today's world: If you don't get out and pursue a career, you are worthless. Or, if not worthless, you are at least worth less than women who join the rat race.

It's past time that government valued people who aren't working full time to provide a larger tax base. That is really the only value our government places on women.

Women's lib is great, in that a woman can decide that home making isn't for her. But, we need to allow women to decide that home making is exactly what they want to do. To hell with Obama, and all those who think like him. And, to hell with Clinton, as well. The declining fertility rate was apparent before he ever parked his dead ass in the governor's mansion in Arkansas.

Let us not forget, it takes a village to raise an idiot. Get kids out of daycare, and allow Mother to care for them.

More than that, we need to stop telling women that getting pregnant and giving birth is a bad thing.

The only way to do that is to begin by grasping that women don't have to have sex with guys at all and many wouldn't even miss it if they skipped that part of life. Next, we have to recognize that the woman who gets pregnant and gives birth of her own choosing is doing a good thing, especially if she doesn't give birth to serious fetal anomalies or ruin her own health by doing so.

So we can't go on pretending that it's her duty to have sex, get pregnant, and give birth. None of it is a duty. Women do guys a favor by having sex and risking pregnancy and do both future children and society a favor by continuing their pregnancies and giving birth responsibly. Then, they continue the favor if they raise those children.

We ought to make it nice for them, admire them, understand that they deserve respect for their choice. And if they want to combine it with work and day care, that's good, too.

The conservatives like Mike Johnson actually say things like, a woman should produce at least one child. lol
He doesn't get it. No one had to have sex with him. No one had to marry him. Human reproduction is entirely voluntary because it isn't a duty to service a guy. If you want to have sex, get married, have a woman consent to get pregnant by you and continue the pregnancy and give birth to your kids, you have to meet HER demands, not act as though she's a baby dispenser.

Make the role desirable or people will flee from it.

 

[Beruit 1978]

Ok

I feel no need to play games with men who don’t see women as equals.

Call it whatever you like.

You don't seem to see men as equal though. You make that obvious with the "if you don't have a uterus, you don't get a vote". Yes, that is misandry. I'm a citizen of the US, I presume you are a citizen of the US, we get an equal say in things. You're not a super citizen, just because you have a uterus instead of testicles.

 

[Beruit 1978]

More than that, we need to stop telling women that getting pregnant and giving birth is a bad thing.

The only way to do that is to begin by grasping that women don't have to have sex with guys at all and many wouldn't even miss it if they skipped that part of life. Next, we have to recognize that the woman who gets pregnant and gives birth of her own choosing is doing a good thing, especially if she doesn't give birth to serious fetal anomalies or ruin her own health by doing so.

So we can't go on pretending that it's her duty to have sex, get pregnant, and give birth. None of it is a duty. Women do guys a favor by having sex and risking pregnancy and do both future children and society a favor by continuing their pregnancies and giving birth responsibly. Then, they continue the favor if they raise those children.

We ought to make it nice for them, admire them, understand that they deserve respect for their choice. And if they want to combine it with work and day care, that's good, too.

The conservatives like Mike Johnson actually say things like, a woman should produce at least one child. lol
He doesn't get it. No one had to have sex with him. No one had to marry him. Human reproduction is entirely voluntary because it isn't a duty to service a guy. If you want to have sex, get married, have a woman consent to get pregnant by you and continue the pregnancy and give birth to your kids, you have to meet HER demands, not act as though she's a baby dispenser.

Make the role desirable or people will flee from it.

Yes, reproduction is voluntary. And, you see where we are today? We have cretins begging immigrants to come here, and take over, because we are too selfish, too weak, too tired, too stupid, to provide for the next generation. We are a nation of degeneracy today.

 

[choiceone]

I guess I should thank you, in return, for femsplaining. Science is science. The soundwaves are very much the same, whether they are looking for a hole in your heart, a mass in your ass, a clot in your veins/arteries, or a hole in your head. The equipment varies a little, depending on the application, of course. But they are finding aneurisms today, smaller than a 3-week fetus.

A three week fetus? It's an embryo at three weeks. The fetal stage is over a month later than that.

 

[Nickyjo]

The USA already has immigration laws and we vet and permit many to enter legally each year. What we don't need is many millions pouring over into our country breaking our laws already in place and we damn sure don't need a major political party condoning, helping, and facilitating the illegal process.

One could go a long way towards solving the problem by supporting unions and other measures that might close the large income gap in the US, by punishing employers who hire illegals, and establishment of some national identity card. But it’s the other party that is the problem: republican businessmen hire illegals while republican politicians bash them. And there is no way they would support what I suggest, as it would ruin their tidy hypocritical program.

 

[choiceone]

As long as we have millions of Americans out of work because the "good-paying union jobs" have been outsourced to places like China, Mexico, Indonesia, India, etc. where people are paid a fraction of the wages Americans need in order to afford the costs of living in the USA, then NO! We should not be flooding the USA with millions of people from those very nations who are willing to work for any kind of wages, undercutting native born citizens in the workplace.

Trump needs to bring production work back to the USA. He is also correct in wanting to exploit the vast natural resources available in the USA. That includes oil and natural gas production, mining of precious and other metals, and improving U.S. infrastructure.

I'm sorry to tell you that bringing production work back to the US will not solve our problems. Labor costs would be way too high here because the cost of living is too high, and especially because housing and medical care are exorbitant. That's the reason for outsourcing in the first place, the desire not to pay labor costs that could meet our cost of living.

So when production comes back to the US, much of the work is going to be robotized. Robots, unlike actual humans, don't need decent housing, medical care, food, transportation, etc., and they can work any hours the factory owner wants.

If we do not tackle the wealth and income maldistribution problem, we can't fix this economy.

And as for fossil fuel production and mining, I'm so sorry that our traditional practices have contributed so negatively to the environment that we are now beginning to see the disastrous results. Trump doesn't care at all about this because he has such a typical short-term capitalist approach to getting rich. We have to take a longer term approach that will husband our resources more carefully. Trump is part of the problem, not the solution.

 

[choiceone]

only Trump will try and do those thing, you're right

Biden actually did bring some production back, which is part of what the Inflation Reduction Act was all about, and which is also seen in how Biden brought chip production to NY instead of leaving it in Taiwan.

 

[choiceone]

"Dirty blue collar work".......that's an amazingly ignorant way to look at hard working people all over the globe, especially Americans. That's a serious societal problem if people become too arrogant and uppity to work hard.

That phrase stuck in my mind after I read about all this in Japan. That's the way the Japanese thought about such work - dirty and blue collar. As I said, they were very snooty about it after reaching affluence.

That is how a lot of Americans are, too. They think they're too good for that work, even though it's actually important work because someone must do it and it's not a kind of apparently clean white collar work that you could just eliminate and it would make no difference, so it isn't really important at all.

However, the word "uppity" doesn't mean and isn't used in a way that isn't insulting. It implies that the so-called "uppity" person isn't good enough to have a less dirty or more white collar job. So I wouldn't use it if I were you. One reason I got two grad degrees is that I was sick of people thinking so little of me compared to everyone else. People largely don't do that now, because I have the degrees.

 

[redbeer]

That phrase stuck in my mind after I read about all this in Japan. That's the way the Japanese thought about such work - dirty and blue collar. As I said, they were very snooty about it after reaching affluence.

That is how a lot of Americans are, too. They think they're too good for that work, even though it's actually important work because someone must do it and it's not a kind of apparently clean white collar work that you could just eliminate and it would make no difference, so it isn't really important at all.

However, the word "uppity" doesn't mean and isn't used in a way that isn't insulting. It implies that the so-called "uppity" person isn't good enough to have a less dirty or more white collar job. So I wouldn't use it if I were you. One reason I got two grad degrees is that I was sick of people thinking so little of me compared to everyone else. People largely don't do that now, because I have the degrees.

Congratulations on your degrees. I knew that took a lot of work and study....well done. To make us think of where we are in life it reminds me of the story of two brothers, who had drug addicted and alcoholic parents where they both died of these addictions. One brother went to college, worked his way through and became very successful, while the other brother followed in his parents path and became a drug addicted alcoholic. They were both asked how they took the path they chose and both their answers were exactly the same......"with parents like mine what would you expect". Much is relevant and seen from the pov we desire to be in.

 

[choiceone]

day one of Biden's presidency what did he do with the border and border laws/restrictions ?

and the results ? a boom in illegals pouring across the border

c'mon, you know this

I'm not interested in a single day. Show me that he is uniquely responsible for the border problem.

I feel sorry for him. When COVID was officially over, he wanted to keep a policy in place that would have kept illegal immigration down, and the conservative SC wouldn't let him do it.

Meanwhile, from the time he got into office, he was committed to not splitting up children and parents, because, during Trump's term, that had resulted in children's being put in cages and sexually and physically abused, which scandalized not only Democrats, but many Republicans. Laura Bush spoke out about this.

But when that policy was discontinued, parents on the other side of the border split from their kids and encouraged their kids to go across alone so they might be able to stay, being parent-less.

Once Harris had addressed the problem of Central American nations' illegals by having those governments and local corporations invest hugely in production to absorb some people before they became illegal migrants, there was a big decline in illegal immigration at the border (Results started being seen clearly starting a few months ago). But she couldn't tackle Venezuela, in SA, because it is such a mess, and Venezuela is where most of the worst offenders are coming from now.

Without more money poured into the legal processing system, it takes too long to get rid of the 9 out of 10 illegals who ultimately get kicked out. The Republicans refuse to allot the money.

 

[choiceone]

Yes, reproduction is voluntary. And, you see where we are today? We have cretins begging immigrants to come here, and take over, because we are too selfish, too weak, too tired, too stupid, to provide for the next generation. We are a nation of degeneracy today.

I'm not going to say there's no degeneracy, but reducing the birth rate was, for a long time, a sensible and far from selfish choice. I was born into the largest generation the world had ever seen, and the movement to reduce the population rate in the 1970s was not degenerate.

We have a high percentage of older citizens who are certainly too weak and tired to continue working at physically hard jobs or working too many hours at some physically doable jobs. It is, however, mainly younger people who really are selfish and stupid. Providing for the next generation, however, is as much about wealth and income distribution as anything else, and our maldistribution, and many problems related to it, are the fault of the wealthiest and supposedly most responsible among us.

Why anyone is voting for Trump is beyond me. He's part of the problem, not the solution.

 

[choiceone]

You don't seem to see men as equal though. You make that obvious with the "if you don't have a uterus, you don't get a vote". Yes, that is misandry. I'm a citizen of the US, I presume you are a citizen of the US, we get an equal say in things. You're not a super citizen, just because you have a uterus instead of testicles.

I guess you don't really understand what it means to say that you don't get any say in my body, because my body is mine. A woman doesn't have to date a guy, let alone marry him, and she certainly doesn't have to have sex with him. Accordingly, she doesn't have to get pregnant and give birth.

Any woman who does get pregnant and gives birth is risking her life and her health in significant ways, and her body will never actually be the same again and might end up as a disabled body. None of this happens to the body of a man who gets a woman pregnant.

So men and women certainly aren't equal. In sex and reproduction, despite all the hype about women liking sex, women are very largely the consumer and men the supplier. Women are constantly evaluating what men offer and deciding whether or not it's enough - not money, but all the various things they may want.

At least one of those things is the right to control when and by whom and under what circumstances to continue a pregnancy - bodily autonomy - and a related one is how to care for their own health and well-being as part of the circumstances.

If you're not prepared to let women and their doctors control that, but insist on strangers of both sexes, but particularly men, demanding the right to have an equal say, then be prepared for women who say NO not just to childbearing and to pregnancy, but to any sex with heterosexual men.

So in this regard, sex and reproduction, men are certainly NOT equal and if they attempt to assert their supposed rights, they're going to have to invest in a lot of plastic blow-up dolls.