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Do the Democrats in Congress want to win the war in Iraq? (1 Viewer)

Do the Democrats in Congress want to win the war in Iraq?

  • No

    Votes: 21 65.6%
  • yes

    Votes: 11 34.4%

  • Total voters
    32
Well, I wouldn't say that anyone with a functioning brain would want their country to lose a war, per say. However, I would say that the Democratic policies of giving our enemies a time table, cutting funding, and retreating is certainly an inferior means of winning.

How about Repulbican policies of attacking a nation that did not attack us or its neighbors based on misrepresentations and misimplications, killing thousands of its citizens, torturing them and otherwise abandoning principles of justice and liberty that we claim we stand for, claiming we have limited objectives of removing Hussein and WMDs and maintaining an indefinite occupation over four years later, and generally sparking a civil war do as a means of "winning"?
 
How about Repulbican policies of attacking a nation that did not attack us or its neighbors based on misrepresentations and misimplications, killing thousands of its citizens, torturing them and otherwise abandoning principles of justice and liberty that we claim we stand for, claiming we have limited objectives of removing Hussein and WMDs and maintaining an indefinite occupation over four years later, and generally sparking a civil war do as a means of "winning"?

I never once said that the Bush Administration was doing a wonderful job in it's execution of the war, which I'll admit, was launched on shaky premises. However, I would say that the effects of the efforts, while certainly accompanied by downsides, has been generally positive. A dictator has fallen, numerous terrorist leaders have been terminated, and a new democracy is to be born in a particularly undemocratic region. It's not easy, and it's not pretty, and certainly not popular. However, just giving up isn't going to make things any better.
 
I never once said that the Bush Administration was doing a wonderful job in it's execution of the war, which I'll admit, was launched on shaky premises. However, I would say that the effects of the efforts, while certainly accompanied by downsides, has been generally positive. A dictator has fallen, numerous terrorist leaders have been terminated, and a new democracy is to be born in a particularly undemocratic region. It's not easy, and it's not pretty, and certainly not popular. However, just giving up isn't going to make things any better.

I disagree. Hussein was not a nice fellow, and a tyrant to be sure. However, he was not a Islamic radical jihadist. He was relatively secular; his top minister was a Christian. Hussein had never been implicated in a non-war terrorist attack (according to the Bush Dept of State, Iraqis tried to bomb the US embassy in Manila during the first Gulf War; other than that I have aware of no terrorist attack or plot in which Hussein or Iraq was ever implicated), and his connections to terrorist groups were tenuous at best. Hussein maintained stability in Iraq, even with an iron fist, and maintained a check against both Islamic radicalism and Iranian hegemony in the region.

We now have a state of affairs were we have had 30,000 US casualties, scores of thousands of Iraqis dead, 1/2 trillion dollars spent, and an Iraqi state that is in disarray if not chaos. Our intervention displaced the ruling group and has sparked a power struggle between Kurd, Shia and Sunni, the consequences of which are unknown. While the Iraqi "democracy" is much hailed by the neocon/Bush administration, the fact is the government has so little support after 4 years that it cannot stand but for the presence of 175,000 US troops stationed there to maintain it.

Meanwhile, the "mistaken" US attack on Iraq and the incompetent prosecution of the occupation has had damaging international consequences. America had broad international support after 9-11 that has evaporated. The Iraqi occupation is roundly criticized, even by the closest thing we have to an ally in the ME, Saudi Arabia. The indefinite occupation of Iraq has been a magnet for Muslim radicalism. It has served as a tremendous recruitment tool for the anti-American radicals, who can reasonably contend that the US unjustifiably attacked Iraq based upon lies, pretends to be for human liberties when it locks up people without due process and tortures them, kills Muslims daily, and wants to control their oil and destroy their religion. According to reports, there has been an explosion of terrorist groups and activities, and many Muslims view the US occupation of Iraq as an unjustified infidel occupation of their holy lands and that opposistion to that foreign occupation is an act of defense.

The US occupation of Iraq has soured our relations with Muslims in the ME to the point that we could not even send peacekeepers to Lebanon because we are viewed as too biased, and we had to sit on the sidelines like a wallflower at a dance while France took the lead of sending peacekeeping troops there.

The end result is likely to be an Iraq that has a radical Islamic leader that will make us wish for the days we had only Hussein to deal with. Or Iraq may devolve into a state of chaos, actually becoming the terrorist breeding ground that the neocons misrepresented extisted there before the invasion.

The sons and brothers of the people our bombs and war killed in Iraq will be fertile grounds for new anti-American terrorists for a generation to come.

IMO, the Iraq war has been far from positive, and the US would be *much* better off had we not invaded.
 
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again I ask, win what?

It is an occupation, not a war. There is civil anarchy because the dictatorship that kept the factions in fear is gone. We accomplished taking out Saddam, before that, we accomplished taking out the weapons program
though Hussein Kamal Hassam and the UN inspections that had been taking place since the Gulf war ended.

We have helped set up a Parliament, a majority who have voted for us to set a departure plan, if any one cares to read about it see above, they have ample money to rebuild their infrastructure, if any one care to hear about it see above.

Our boys are spilling blood and there will not be a withdrawal until there are production sharing agreements in place, which is taking advantage of the country's only resources which right now are making record profits for the oil companies, so why would they want us to remain there? They stand to do very well at the price of oil these days. I am sure there is some manner that they can draft sufficient production sharing agreements between their own factions and get to business again. The embargo was against Saddam.

The only thing Bush wants to win is privitzed control of the oil. Now I know that that raises anger that I even say that, but face it, what else is there keeping us there?
 
As A Viet-nam Vet I Can Tell You That You Can Not Win A War Where The Population Despises You! Also Even If You Could Win To A Point Of Suppression Of Violence What Have You Won - The Minute We Leave They Will Be At Each Others Throats! Saddam Controlled Them With Absolute Brutality! We Are An Occupier Trying To Impose Our Good Gov On Their Bad And In All History This Does Not Work> In Addition This Was Awar To Find Wmd But Rather Than The Republicans Dare Admit That They Wasted 600 Billion Dollars And Over 3000 Boys Lives They Converted It To A War On Terror. In Viet-nam At Peak We Had 600,000 Troops And Could Not Win But Bush Thinks We Can Subdue A Country 3 Times As Large With 160,000. We Are Simply Riding Around On Patrol Being Sniped At Just As In Vietnam With No End In Sight! Protect The Troops By Getting Them Out Now!!!:( :(
 
Encouraging our enemies to attack us by showing weakness is not what is best for this county.

What show of strength would discourage our enemies from attacking us? Do you want to put more troops into Iraq? What about our enemies based in Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc? Would more troops in Iraq discourage them?
 
I never once said that the Bush Administration was doing a wonderful job in it's execution of the war, which I'll admit, was launched on shaky premises. However, I would say that the effects of the efforts, while certainly accompanied by downsides, has been generally positive. A dictator has fallen, numerous terrorist leaders have been terminated, and a new democracy is to be born in a particularly undemocratic region. It's not easy, and it's not pretty, and certainly not popular. However, just giving up isn't going to make things any better.


Please tell me your definition of winning. At what point will we have won and can withdraw without anyone thinking we're "giving up"?
 
No smart people want congress to night fight the war in Iraq any longer.

The war has been a unbearable heavy drain financially and a loss from the moment of the invasion.

We are fighting a war we cannot possibly win.
 
How about Repulbican policies of attacking a nation that did not attack us or its neighbors based on misrepresentations and misimplications, killing thousands of its citizens, torturing them and otherwise abandoning principles of justice and liberty that we claim we stand for, claiming we have limited objectives of removing Hussein and WMDs and maintaining an indefinite occupation over four years later, and generally sparking a civil war do as a means of "winning"?
That would've been terrible, if it happened.
 
As A Viet-nam Vet I Can Tell You That You Can Not Win A War Where The Population Despises You! Also Even If You Could Win To A Point Of Suppression Of Violence What Have You Won - The Minute We Leave They Will Be At Each Others Throats! Saddam Controlled Them With Absolute Brutality! We Are An Occupier Trying To Impose Our Good Gov On Their Bad And In All History This Does Not Work> In Addition This Was Awar To Find Wmd But Rather Than The Republicans Dare Admit That They Wasted 600 Billion Dollars And Over 3000 Boys Lives They Converted It To A War On Terror. In Viet-nam At Peak We Had 600,000 Troops And Could Not Win But Bush Thinks We Can Subdue A Country 3 Times As Large With 160,000. We Are Simply Riding Around On Patrol Being Sniped At Just As In Vietnam With No End In Sight! Protect The Troops By Getting Them Out Now!!!:( :(
I appreciate your input and I agree with most of your post. However, I feel obligated to point out something. I agree with you when you say that the Iraqis despise us, but unlike Vietnam, they don't despise our cause. In Vietnam, the population had no desire to pe partitioned. In Iraq, the population wants democracy. Their brand of democracy may be a theocracy, but they like voting. This isn't a huge point. It doesn't necessarily nullify the other things that you said, but nonetheless, it is significant.
 

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