Do Men Have a Right to Use Female Dressing Rooms / Bathrooms?

[Lursa]

Really? You don't think 18 times more likely to commit a violet crime is "significant".

Per the article, trans-women commit crimes at a rate similar to other men.

See why I don't want to let them in the ladies room.

It's odd that you ignore where I write that if there's a violence problem, it should be dealt with period. And I never wrote one way or another about letting them in ladies rooms so now you arent even posting in good faith. You resort to falsehoods.

Are you talking about these comments?
"
All of a sudden you're a sociological expert on this? Or a law enforcement one? Can you be more specific?

And if you had countered my specifics on dealing with predatory concerns, period, I may be more likely to believe you."

If so, I'm happy to but I'll do it in a private post if you don't mind.

I dont see why it cant be posted in the forum. Why would you trust me with something you wouldnt post publicly?

I suppose there are degrees. As a young man I was certainly known (not exactly the right word) to look at a pretty lady more than once.

I don't think anybody's ignoring it but as I stated earlier, if it goes unnoticed that doesn't make it not a problem.

Just because the peeping-tom goes unnoticed doesn't mean he's not committing a crime.

So then we should be excluding gays from mens/womens rooms too then? If there's a problem that appears to do no harm and no reasonable solution, what is your point? Again...this supports my contention that your position is based more on prejudice against trans people than any actual harm.

 

[The Baron]

It's odd that you ignore where I write that if there's a violence problem, it should be dealt with period.

Literally my post no. 419.

And I never wrote one way or another about letting them in ladies rooms so now you arent even posting in good faith. You resort to falsehoods.

1. When you talk of allowing trans-women into the ladies room then you are literally talking about allowing men into the ladies room.
2. When you talk of allowing trans-women into the ladies room then you are literally talking about allowing men posing as trans-women (who are still men) into the ladies room. These men will include rapist, child-molesters, sick-o's, freaks, etc.

You may not like the idea but it is simply predictable.

If you don't know how predators operate then you may wish to do some research on your own.

I dont see why it cant be posted in the forum. Why would you trust me with something you wouldnt post publicly?

Oh, I don't have to PM. It was simply an offer to answer your questions.

Frankly too many children are allowed onto this site and I've no interest in sharing something that the children will twist, mock, etc. Even I have my limits.

As far as trusting you--you strike me as impassioned, not childish.

There's a difference.

So then we should be excluding gays from mens/womens rooms too then?

No.

My first knee-jerk reaction is to give them their own bathrooms but then that strikes me as too muck of a "white water fountains in front / black water fountains in back" kinda deal, so...no.

If there's a problem that appears to do no harm...

I've already posted an article that states that trans-women are 18 times more likely to commit violet crimes so there is you "harm" right there.

...and no reasonable solution...

Men use the men's room and vice-versa.

...what is your point? Again...this supports my contention that your position is based more on prejudice against trans people than any actual harm.

I've provided you with evidence that harm can be done.

We both agree that harm has already been done in the past.

No clear-thinking person would deny that taking steps to minimize risk of any kind is appropriate (what I keep referring to as "common sense"). People from all times and cultures have done so. See my post no. 407 for examples that I'm sure you rejected for one reason or another.

I don't know what else I can do.

Having said that, I can assure you, my objections are not founded in bigotry but are based on sound reason. You may not agree with those reasons, but, there you have it.

 

[noonereal]

Sheldon Cooper recognized that psychology isn't a real science.

Good post, lol

 

[noonereal]

risk to women and children should be minimized.

we are talking about bathrooms here not disease.

This is something that does appear to be universally accepted down through time around the world.

Bullshit

Straight up bullshit.

Nonsense, garbage.

You have zero, nada, nothing to back this up in "science."

Why? Because it's nonsense, bullshit, garbage.

I two have 2 daughters, I have no concerns in this regard. Why? Because it's bullshit. There is no risk. This is emotion based on cultural practice. This is where a degree in psychology would aid you.

 

[noonereal]

Literally my post no. 419.

1. When you talk of allowing trans-women into the ladies room then you are literally talking about allowing men into the ladies room.
2. When you talk of allowing trans-women into the ladies room then you are literally talking about allowing men posing as trans-women (who are still men) into the ladies room. These men will include rapist, child-molesters, sick-o's, freaks, etc.

You may not like the idea but it is simply predictable.

If you don't know how predators operate then you may wish to do some research on your own.

Oh, I don't have to PM. It was simply an offer to answer your questions.

Frankly too many children are allowed onto this site and I've no interest in sharing something that the children will twist, mock, etc. Even I have my limits.

As far as trusting you--you strike me as impassioned, not childish.

There's a difference.

No.

My first knee-jerk reaction is to give them their own bathrooms but then that strikes me as too muck of a "white water fountains in front / black water fountains in back" kinda deal, so...no.

I've already posted an article that states that trans-women are 18 times more likely to commit violet crimes so there is you "harm" right there.

Men use the men's room and vice-versa.

I've provided you with evidence that harm can be done.

We both agree that harm has already been done in the past.

No clear-thinking person would deny that taking steps to minimize risk of any kind is appropriate (what I keep referring to as "common sense"). People from all times and cultures have done so. See my post no. 407 for examples that I'm sure you rejected for one reason or another.

I don't know what else I can do.

Having said that, I can assure you, my objections are not founded in bigotry but are based on sound reason. You may not agree with those reasons, but, there you have it.

The only worries in regards to assault in rest rooms of women are transwomen using men's bathrooms.

peace out

 

[finebead]

Then thats what needs fixed, the Karnes should be told to go F themselves and security shouldnt care one bit unless there is a crime in progress. An ID is a complete crap. Why does anybody need proof they arent doing anythign wrong? What type of BS bigotry is that? (not you but the Karenr/Daren and or security guard) Arent we innocent in this country till proven guilty?
whats the difference between that and calling security on every black person?

No, an id is not crap. In some places, a letter is already being used.

Is it illegal for a man to use the women's restroom?

IF the man is not transgender, yes it is. If he is transgender -evident by a letter they carry by the supervising psychologist stating that they are undergoing transition for “Gender Dysphoria” then, no. They have the legal right to use either bathroom (men’s or women’s) as they choose.

Today, many restaurants and public places have created a ‘Gender Neutral” bathroom to accommodate the transgender population.

Is it illegal for a man to use the women's bathroom?

Answer (1 of 37): Well, well, well, another anonymous poster trying to stir up some controversy. It seems like this question is aimed towards the USA, as they tend to get a little too worked up over these kinds of issues. In the UK, there is no law that specifies which gender can use which publi...

www.quora.com

 

[Lursa]

Literally my post no. 419.

After I'd been reiterating it. And yet, you circle around and deny that for ex. it could have been the same with gays in restrooms...yet no concerns. The inflammatory rhetoric comes to the forefront with trans people. It's like your on a see saw.

1. When you talk of allowing trans-women into the ladies room then you are literally talking about allowing men into the ladies room.
2. When you talk of allowing trans-women into the ladies room then you are literally talking about allowing men posing as trans-women (who are still men) into the ladies room. These men will include rapist, child-molesters, sick-o's, freaks, etc.

I'm doing so hypothetically in order to elicit the facts, realities, harm, incidents, that might actually impact decisions on 1 & 2.

I've been waiting for your foundation on the need to implement laws re: trans people. AND why do so focusing on them when the real issue (if there is one) has existed for decades. If we need to protect women and children...we need to do so. No factual foundation has been presented that it should be because of trans people.

You may not like the idea but it is simply predictable.

If you don't know how predators operate then you may wish to do some research on your own.

I have been LE and received training from NYPD and St. Louis PD. I have received self-defense training (on my own) and studied predators.

Your presumption of predictable remains without foundation.

Frankly too many children are allowed onto this site and I've no interest in sharing something that the children will twist, mock, etc. Even I have my limits.

Wow! Creative excuse. First I've seen that one.

As far as trusting you--you strike me as impassioned, not childish.

I've provided you with evidence that harm can be done.

Acknowledged and responded to. One very limited study in Sweden isnt enough. And again, per that source, as I've written...if we have to protect people, we should do so.

If we need to protect from predators, it has little to do with trans people.

We both agree that harm has already been done in the past.

No clear-thinking person would deny that taking steps to minimize risk of any kind is appropriate (what I keep referring to as "common sense"). People from all times and cultures have done so. See my post no. 407 for examples that I'm sure you rejected for one reason or another.

See above.

I don't know what else I can do.

Having said that, I can assure you, my objections are not founded in bigotry but are based on sound reason. You may not agree with those reasons, but, there you have it.

Again, I still find your focus on trans people without foundation.

 

[The Baron]

I two have 2 daughters, I have no concerns in this regard. Why? Because it's bullshit. There is no risk. This is emotion based on cultural practice. This is where a degree in psychology would aid you.

Well, if it were an actual science I would have looked into it,

 

[uptower]

Do men have the right to use female dressing rooms / bathrooms? It's an interesting question posed by Dennis Prager in this article. In the article he states, "[w]hen the right of a man -- regardless of whether he identifies as a woman -- to expose his penis to girls supersedes society's obligation to protect girls' innocence and most women's sense of decency, we have reached a new low."

I agree.

It also begs another question, why do we pass laws / policies to protect those on the fringe of our society at the expense of the majority?

Well as long as they don't leave the seat up...

 

[The Baron]

After I'd been reiterating it.

Predators should be shot. Seems rather obvious but if it helps that I say so, then fine...predators should be shot.

And yet, you circle around and deny that for ex. it could have been the same with gays in restrooms...yet no concerns.

No not really. If a guy ogles me in the restroom, I'm a full grown redneck...I'll handle it.

This same can't be said for a woman or child. Men will predictably always overpower a female or child.

Also, no homosexual man with any taste is gonna hit on me.

The inflammatory rhetoric comes to the forefront with trans people. It's like your on a see saw.

I'm not being inflammatory? By saying that men should use the men's room?

That's hardly inflammatory.

I'm doing so hypothetically in order to elicit the facts, realities, harm, incidents, that might actually impact decisions on 1 & 2.

And you've yet to establish that they don't do any harm.

I've provided you with an article that says they are 18 times more likely.

I've been waiting for your foundation on the need to implement laws re: trans people. AND why do so focusing on them when the real issue (if there is one) has existed for decades. If we need to protect women and children...we need to do so. No factual foundation has been presented that it should be because of trans people.

And you continue to ignore that:

1. When you talk of allowing trans-women into the ladies room then you are literally talking about allowing men into the ladies room.
2. When you talk of allowing trans-women into the ladies room then you are literally talking about allowing men posing as trans-women (who are still men) into the ladies room. These men will include rapist, child-molesters, sick-o's, freaks, etc.

You consistently continuing to ignore this changes nothing.

I have been LE and received training from NYPD and St. Louis PD. I have received self-defense training (on my own) and studied predators.

Then you should no better.

Why do you continue to deny this?

Wow! Creative excuse. First I've seen that one.

Really? You don't see the immaturity in many of the folks here?

Lucky you.

Acknowledged and responded to. If we need to protect from predators, it has little to do with trans people.

Okay.

Fine.

If you're not even attempting to have an intelligent conversation that is certainly your prerogative.

 

[uptower]

I think the idea that predators will dress up as women to get into bathrooms is overblown. It's like banning voting because someone might commit fraud. If there's no empirical evidence to support it, it's not a valid excuse.

If perverts are going in, they're likely to go in their normal attire, maybe with a balaclava or stocking over their head, regardless of which gender restroom it is.

 

[Lursa]

Predators should be shot. Seems rather obvious but if it helps that I say so, then fine...predators should be shot.

So we have left the realm of actual realistic discussion now? Please dont waste my time.

No not really. If a guy ogles me in the restroom, I'm a full grown redneck...I'll handle it.

This same can't be said for a woman or child. Men will predictably always overpower a female or child.

Who says they'd even notice it? I again take you back to the example of gays in restrooms/locker rooms.

Also, no homosexual man with any taste is gonna hit on me.

Ah, that's also not remotely relevant to the discussion.

I'm not being inflammatory? By saying that men should use the men's room?

No, you 'are' being inflammatory by focusing on unfounded concerns about trans people.

That's hardly inflammatory.

And you've yet to establish that they don't do any harm.

You have yet to establish trans people do/will.

I've provided you with an article that says they are 18 times more likely.

And I responded that a single study with a small sampling with 6 actual attacks was hardly indicative of a trend.

And you continue to ignore that:

1. When you talk of allowing trans-women into the ladies room then you are literally talking about allowing men into the ladies room.
2. When you talk of allowing trans-women into the ladies room then you are literally talking about allowing men posing as trans-women (who are still men) into the ladies room. These men will include rapist, child-molesters, sick-o's, freaks, etc.

I addressed it directly and even used the numbers.

You consistently continuing to ignore this changes nothing.

Since I addressed by number, it's strange you claim I ignored it.

Then you should no better. Why do you continue to deny this?

Heh, sorry that my experience doesnt fit your agenda ...and yes, I do "know" better.

Really? You don't see the immaturity in many of the folks here?

Hey if you want to characterize your inventive comment that way, that's up to you.

Lucky you.

Okay.

Fine.

If you're not even attempting to have an intelligent conversation that is certainly your prerogative.

I have and you've failed to explain why we should focus on trans people as predators. Esp. with 'history' as a precedent.

And if there are real concerns, why not take measures to stop predators (that you have conceded have existed all along) to protect women and children, period, rather than using unfounded inflammatory rhetoric about trans people?

 

[Sean Crabtree]

No. But transgender women do.

 

[AGENT J]

No, an id is not crap. In some places, a letter is already being used.

Yes for a restroom its complete crap, degrading and discriminatory.
and Ill ask you AGAIN all the questions you keep dodging and runnign from lol
Why does anybody need proof they arent doing anythign wrong? What type of BS bigotry is that?
Arent we innocent in this country till proven guilty?
whats the difference between that and calling security on every black person?
what happens when a person doesnt have an ID?
what bathroom should the person in that picture use?

 

[AGENT J]

My favorite part about the insane bigotry and crying over equality and transwomen and transmen using the bathrooms of their choice . . . . many have already been doing it my entire life, many are doing it right now and those same bigots have shared a restroom with a transgender and didn't even know lol

oh no the sky is falling LOL!!!!!

 

[AGENT J]

Do men have the right to use female dressing rooms / bathrooms? It's an interesting question posed by Dennis Prager in this article. In the article he states, "[w]hen the right of a man -- regardless of whether he identifies as a woman -- to expose his penis to girls supersedes society's obligation to protect girls' innocence and most women's sense of decency, we have reached a new low."

I agree.

It also begs another question, why do we pass laws / policies to protect those on the fringe of our society at the expense of the majority?

what in the world?

Who is making claims

Still waiting . . .
who is making cliams that people have the right to expose themselves to others??? LOL

 

[The Baron]

No. But transgender women do.

Same thing.

 

[AGENT J]

Same thing.

factually wrong lol

 

[The Baron]

Please dont waste my time.

Happily.

 

[The Baron]

I long for the days when men were men and women were proud of it.

 

[finebead]

Yes for a restroom its complete crap, degrading and discriminatory.
and Ill ask you AGAIN all the questions you keep dodging and runnign from lol
Why does anybody need proof they arent doing anythign wrong? What type of BS bigotry is that?
Arent we innocent in this country till proven guilty?
whats the difference between that and calling security on every black person?
what happens when a person doesnt have an ID?
what bathroom should the person in that picture use?

I have already shown you that some cities already use a doctors letter, same thing as an ID. It is in use, and you can't find the internet objections to use of a letter. That means that your assertion that an id is crap, is wrong. It already is in use.

Now, this question you want me to answer, which restroom should this person who appears male, should use, person better use the male restroom. If she's a trans male, she will not be welcome in the ladies room. Security would be called. If she is a trans male and goes in the mens room, nobody will give a damn. So, he or she should use the mens room. And it would be better, if any question is raised, if that person had an id, if they are trans. But I doubt any male would raise a question in the mens room.

I was in the men's locker room at the gym a number of years ago, pretty crowded at 8 pm. In walked a young girl, maybe 15 or 16, she walked around. I was naked and putting on cloths, so I just faced the locker and pulled on underwear. A responsible senior male who was clothed escorted her out and went and talked to the manager. I know the manager spoke to the girl, don't know anything beyond that. But it was no national incident. I never saw or heard of a repeat. I believe the only concern in the men's locker room was for the girls safety, her mental state, and the ability to adhere to social norms and become a responsible adult.

 

[AGENT J]

I have already shown you that some cities already use a doctors letter, same thing as an ID. It is in use, and you can't find the internet objections to use of a letter. That means that your assertion that an id is crap, is wrong. It already is in use.

WHat? No you havent and no it doesnt mean that at all LMAO
so are you saying when some cities didnt allow interracial marriage that made calling that crap wrong? or is that magically different? your claim is factually wrong and absurd how old are you?
IDs are crap, degrading and discriminatory.

Now, this question you want me to answer, which restroom should this person who appears male, should use, person better use the male restroom.

Better use? why?

If she's a trans male, she will not be welcome in the ladies room.

why not? according to who and what facts?

Security would be called.

again why?

If she is a trans male and goes in the mens room, nobody will give a damn.

again according to who and what facts?

So, he or she should use the mens room. And it would be better, if any question is raised, if that person had an id, if they are trans.

Why better? who else needs ID/paperwork to use the bathroom? Teachers? black people? priest?

But I doubt any male would raise a question in the mens room.

again based on what facts, this very board suggest you are wrong where the picture has inspired posters to call that person a sicko freak

I was in the men's locker room at the gym a number of years ago, pretty crowded at 8 pm. In walked a young girl, maybe 15 or 16, she walked around. I was naked and putting on cloths, so I just faced the locker and pulled on underwear. A responsible senior male who was clothed escorted her out and went and talked to the manager. I know the manager spoke to the girl, don't know anything beyond that. But it was no national incident. I never saw or heard of a repeat. I believe the only concern in the men's locker room was for the girls safety, her mental state, and the ability to adhere to social norms and become a responsible adult.

No one cares about your meaningless story

now all the other questions you are still dodging and running from

Why does anybody need proof they arent doing anything wrong? What type of BS bigotry is that?
Arent we innocent in this country till proven guilty?
whats the difference between that and calling security on every black person, teacher or priest?
what happens when a person doesnt have an ID?



and as for the picture that persons name is Mike, Mike uses the male bathroom accept in places where dumb laws force him to use the femal bathroom and he mocked those laws wih pictures like this

 

[Lursa]

Happily.

Yes, when you start recommending vigilante violence instead of solutions, I think we're done.

 

[ProgressPlease]

I long for the days when men were men and women were proud of it.

What does that mean? When men had a very narrow view of how they should dress, act, behave? When women were proud of men who upheld stereotypes of how both men and women were required to be? When was that? Do we really want to keep that going or have we evolved.

"girls were girls and men were men"

 

[The Baron]

What does that mean? When men had a very narrow view of how they should dress, act, behave? When women were proud of men who upheld stereotypes of how both men and women were required to be? When was that? Do we really want to keep that going or have we evolved.

Yea. We've evolved....