Do conservatives think free speech should apply to tourists, foreign students, green card holders, etc?

[antiquity]

Interest slant...if someone came into your home and said your taste in decor was terrible and your wife was ugly would you kick the out...I would even if my wife is ugly.

 

[j brown's body]

My post answers your question. As a citizen, you have a right to speak. As a visitor, you also have a right to speak, but you don't have right to a visa.

They have a right to speak but can be deprived of a visa because of speech?

 

[hecatmoggie]

sure they do - and if its hate speech /terrorism speech etc they can be deported for it right ?

actions have consequences - don't come to the USA and be hateful and destructive/disruptive, we don't need you

 

[exoplanet]

So then you consider 'doing things like vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over buildings, creating a ruckus' as 'expressing views'?

I consider freedom of association a first amendment right. The point that I made, and that you appear to have missed, is that they DON'T HAVE TO DO ANY OF THOSE THINGS according to Rubio, merely "participate in movements" that he blames for those things. He ultimately isn't describing any criminal activity by the visa holder per se because his goal is to suppress speech.

Irrelevant to the thread topic.

It's entirely relevant to my point. Partisan enforcement demonstrates an effort to suppress speech which is the discussion at hand. I don't see Rubio worried about visa holders associating with the Proud Boys or going to Trump rallies.

 

[j brown's body]

social media is an open source. VISA applications are vetted. There is every reason to look at what visa holders say about national security issues. It's a power designated to the Sec of State, by virtue of the executive branch

To repress freedom of speech.

 

[Cosmo]

This post is why I don't bother giving links anymore when asked. It's just a means to control the conversation and wave away any proof they're wrong. So they grab on sentence, slap an emoji on it and pretend they "dismissed it".

Cool story. Doesn't explain how we're supposed to debate anonymous sources and (alleged) victims, though. Like, can I come back with 4 anonymous sources from reddit or some other forum claiming Biden jailed them for being tourists and win the debate?

 

[j brown's body]

sure they do - and if its hate speech /terrorism speech etc they can be deported for it right ?

actions have consequences - don't come to the USA and be hateful and destructive/disruptive, we don't need you

The possibility for abuse is awfully high.

 

[j brown's body]

Interest slant...if someone came into your home and said your taste in decor was terrible and your wife was ugly would you kick the out...I would even if my wife is ugly.

I don't see personal insults and political speech as identical.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Do conservatives think free speech should apply to tourists, foreign students, green card holders, etc? Do people who are in the US and not citizens have free speech rights? Because, according to Tim Pool, they shouldn't have those rights:



Is Tim Pool not a ''free speech absolutist" then?

Actual speech? Of course.

What "protesters" think passes for speech these days? Perhaps not.

 

[antiquity]

I don't see personal insults and political speech as identical.

Can't image you would...but analogy is about the same.

 

[hecatmoggie]

The possibility for abuse is awfully high.

can't have non-us citizens coming here and causing unrest/disruptions/violence/hate etc

we don't need that - NO country needs it

 

[antiquity]

can't have non-us citizens coming here and causing unrest/disruptions/violence/hate etc

we don't need that - NO country needs it

Right...try that in China or Russian and see how fast you are put in a reeducation camp or a Siberian gulag...Even Canada has laws on what you can say about Canada and its politicians.

 

[j brown's body]

Right...try that in China or Russian and see how fast you are put in a reeducation camp or a Siberian gulag...Even Canada has laws on what you can say about Canada and its politicians.

We used to consider our country to be uniquely free.

 

[j brown's body]

Can't image you would...but analogy is about the same.

Apples and oranges.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Yes, free speech applies.

As does this:

“If you apply for a visa to enter the United States and be a student, and you tell us that the reason why you're coming to the United States is not just because you want to write op-eds, but because you want to participate in movements that are involved in doing things like vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over buildings, creating a ruckus, we're not going to give you a visa. If you lie to us and get a visa then enter the United States, and with that visa, participate in that sort of activity, we're going to take away your visa.”​

Marco Rubio says 300 student visas have been revoked, including detentions at Tufts, Columbia and more

The comments come amid two more high-profile detentions by ICE of a Tufts University student and a University of Alabama student.

www.cbsnews.com

So guilt by association?

 

[Yes_Minister]

Right...try that in China or Russian and see how fast you are put in a reeducation camp or a Siberian gulag...Even Canada has laws on what you can say about Canada and its politicians.

Okay, and does Canada deny entry to Canada if someone said something Mark Carney didn't like? If a Trump supporter were travelling to another country and denied access for their political speech, would they be fine being denied access to another country? I doubt it; they would likely act like Karens.

Let's say if you had a family member visiting Canada, the UK or Germany, it would be fine with the government in those countries, detaining your family member and putting them in isolation until that person had a mental breakdown, because the government suspected they might be trying to side work in that country?

‘Like a horror movie’: Ice detaining German tourist in California indefinitely

Jessica Brösche has spent more than a month in detention center after being denied entry at San Diego from Mexico

www.theguardian.com

If an American were put into a detention camp in another country and died in that camp, would you want an investigation into it?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-died-ice-custody-lawyer-1.7573184

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I take it because of my posts on here I'm now barred from entry to the US?

I particularly liked the demand from the Department of State that "all applicants for F, M and J non immigrant visas will be instructed to adjust the privacy settings on all their social media profiles to "public."

If any European nation had done something like this - you can bet there would be a line of MAGA posters telling us that European nations doing it are all police states.

 

[eohrnberger]

I consider freedom of association a first amendment right.

Which part of 'vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over buildings, creating a ruckus' do you believe equates to 'freedom of association'. because I'm not seeing an overlap here.

The point that I made, and that you appear to have missed, is that they DON'T HAVE TO DO ANY OF THOSE THINGS according to Rubio, merely "participate in movements" that he blames for those things.

Where in the cited direct quote did you read that? Or is this the push narrative demanded conclusion?

He ultimately isn't describing any criminal activity by the visa holder per se because his goal is to suppress speech.

You can read Rubio's mind as to what his goals are? Seriously?

No, this again is a push narrative demanded conclusion.

It's entirely relevant to my point. Partisan enforcement demonstrates an effort to suppress speech which is the discussion at hand.

I don't see Rubio worried about visa holders associating with the Proud Boys or going to Trump rallies.

Du please support and document by citation where a visa holder was associating with the Proud Boys or going to Trump rallies and direct orders were issued to ignore that.

Given the long list of politically motivated claims, hoaxes and smear campaigns the left has started since 2015 after the escalator announcement, I'm skeptical at anything which comes out of a left leaning person's mouth, experience having taught this to be a prudent position.

 

[bomberfox]

Other countries should retaliate by not allowing magats in their countries. Fair is fair right?

 

[eohrnberger]

So guilt by association?

Where do you see 'guilt by association' in 'vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over buildings'?

 

[The Brad Dad]

Cool story. Doesn't explain how we're supposed to debate anonymous sources and (alleged) victims, though. Like, can I come back with 4 anonymous sources from reddit or some other forum claiming Biden jailed them for being tourists and win the debate?

That’s precisely what conservatives have been doing with their 2020 arguments and Biden crime ring stuff. here, how about this: what if someone says “many people are saying” before offering up a fact? would it be acceptable then?

 

[MAGAnificent]

Do conservatives think free speech should apply to tourists, foreign students, green card holders, etc? Do people who are in the US and not citizens have free speech rights? Because, according to Tim Pool, they shouldn't have those rights:



Is Tim Pool not a ''free speech absolutist" then?

As long as that free speech does not include inciting or participating in riots or any way violating the terms of their VISAs.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Where do you see 'guilt by association' in 'vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over buildings'?

The statement you posted didny day "if the individual in question is guilty of those things, it said if they are associated with protests in which such things happenned

In other words, if Joe Blow went to a protest about the genocide in Gaza, and somewhere else in that protest, some other people committed vandalism, then Joe Blow is guilty by association and can have his green card revoked.

 

[Cosmo]

That’s precisely what conservatives have been doing with their 2020 arguments and Biden crime ring stuff. here, how about this: what if someone says “many people are saying” before offering up a fact? would it be acceptable then?

No, and that's why I rejected the other guy's anonymous source.

 

[exoplanet]

Which part of 'vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over buildings, creating a ruckus' do you believe equates to 'freedom of association'. because I'm not seeing an overlap here.

They don't equate. That's part of my point. Rubio is trying to conflate the two while actually forbidding association.

Where in the cited direct quote did you read that? Or is this the push narrative demanded conclusion?

Are you really having trouble finding the phrase "participate in movements" in that short quote you provided? I'm not sure what you're missing.

You can read Rubio's mind as to what his goals are? Seriously?

I'm reading his words. Do you actually think you can't figure out what his intent is because you aren't a mind reader?

Du please support and document by citation where a visa holder was associating with the Proud Boys or going to Trump rallies and direct orders were issued to ignore that

That was never my claim.