lizzie
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2009
- Messages
- 28,580
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- between two worlds
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- Political Leaning
- Libertarian
Recently two NYPD Officers were killed by a crazy person. Based on how conservatives are blaming Al Sharpton and Mayor de Blasio but not the actual killer I'm gonna have to say yes.
When have I ever defended Sharpton on here? In the case of Michael Brown I blamed his family for being crappy parents and raising a criminal.
Because unlike you he believes in personal responsibility.
Recently two NYPD Officers were killed by a crazy person. Based on how conservatives are blaming Al Sharpton and Mayor de Blasio but not the actual killer I'm gonna have to say yes.
Yes, but oddly enough the same bunch arguing that Sharpton should take responsibility for inflammatory statements (which he should), don't argue that hate mongers on right wing talk radio should take responsibility for inflammatory statements when they could inspire some nut job to commit violence as well.
What statements can you cite from “hate mongers on right wing talk radio” inciting hatred and violence in any manner comparable to what certain prominent individuals on the wrong, such as Sharpton, have been doing?
Brown is one thing, but in the case of Eric Garner just about everyone to the left of the Klan questioned the police tactics.
Well THAT was certainly a well thought out evidence based hypothesis.Recently two NYPD Officers were killed by a crazy person. Based on how conservatives are blaming Al Sharpton and Mayor de Blasio but not the actual killer I'm gonna have to say yes.
Recently two NYPD Officers were killed by a crazy person. Based on how conservatives are blaming Al Sharpton and Mayor de Blasio but not the actual killer I'm gonna have to say yes.
Obama has advocated personal responsibility in the Black community. Perhaps you were so busy screaming to see his birth certificate to hear him mention it?With all due respect, comment from people like Sharpton, de Blasio, Holder and Obama encourage the idea that black youth are not personally responsible for the behaviors which lead to incidents like Garner and Brown. They instead put that blame on the police. Maybe if they encouraged a little personal responsibility in the lives of the people they're talking to we'd see less crap like this.
Loaded bait question at best. Since you cannot even get liberals and conservatives to agree on what "personal responsibility" is, there is zero expectation you can get them to agree on how to apply the concept.
To be fair, I and people like me questioned the government/city council crackdown and orders to police to strictly enforce against illegal cigarette sales that led to this unfortunate incident. If governments and city councils weren't so dependent on nickel and diming average citizens to constantly feed their hunger to spend, the Garner incident would likely have not happened. But I and people like me do not fault police for what appeared to be a lawful arrest and for what Garner escalated into his own death.
The cons mean that personal responsibility means - no welfare, no unemployment checks, no unions, no free education.
But it's all God's will, so you're not responsible anyway.
What Obama does is configure his remarks according to the audience he targets.Obama has advocated personal responsibility in the Black community. Perhaps you were so busy screaming to see his birth certificate to hear him mention it?
The man was choked to death by a police officer while being arrested for selling singles out of a pack of cigarettes. Mind you, that choke hold they are not even supposed to use. Yet you don't fault the police on that one?
That's not accurate at all. Cons see no problem with welfare for the truly needy, or unemployment, or unions even where needed. Conservatives have a problem with promotion of welfare in a seemingly unlimited supply and quantity, see a problem with unions where they are used as political fund raising machines instead of actually protecting workers. The progressive view of using any organization to promote more dependency on hand outs is a problem - there is middle ground where reasonable people can agree on the use and administration of all types of welfare as long as there is a job at the end of the use and not simply more welfare bribes for democratic votes.
The man was choked to death by a police officer while being arrested for selling singles out of a pack of cigarettes. Mind you, that choke hold they are not even supposed to use. Yet you don't fault the police on that one?
The man was choked to death by a police officer while being arrested for selling singles out of a pack of cigarettes. Mind you, that choke hold they are not even supposed to use. Yet you don't fault the police on that one?
Obama has advocated personal responsibility in the Black community. Perhaps you were so busy screaming to see his birth certificate to hear him mention it?
1. The man was not choked to death. The coroner's report does not support your contention.
2. The man resisted arrest. Considering his size in comparison to the officers, what would you have the officers do to enforce the arrest? How else would you incapacitate an individual of this size who will not give in to the arresting authority given to police officers?
3. The man had been arrested several times before. If I'm not mistaken, he had over 20 charges - most minor - so he should have some understanding of how the law works. Is it not possible, perhaps likely, that Garner resisted arrest previously or at least was uncooperative and it was Garner who escalated the incident this time?
4. If the officer is found to have used a procedure that was illegal or against police department rules, I expect him to be held to account by police conduct reviews and appropriately disciplined and perhaps removed from the force if that is deemed appropriate. I expect no less of the officer to submit to the legal process as I do Garner. The officer went through the grand jury process and now will be subject to the police department's protocol.
The sooner everyone understands and appreciates that rights of individuals can and may often be overridden by the authority vested in law enforcement officers the sooner these types of incidents will cease. This nonsense about shouting "I have rights" and resisting arrest just gets some people an untimely death. Exert your rights where they can be honored and enforced - in a court of law.
1- that's not so clear... had he not gone through that ordeal, he more than likely would have been alive.
2- cops often say that when beating on someone, or put a person in a hold where they cannot possibly be cuffed, and then use that inability to move to claim that the person is resisting.
3- this one you have at least a bit of a point... If you've been arrested that many times you should have some familiarity with the routine. However, that does not change that anything short of dropping prone with your hands behind your back can be called resisting... and even then.
4- he may not be criminally guilty of murder, however, civilly culpable is a different question.
Loaded bait question at best. Since you cannot even get liberals and conservatives to agree on what "personal responsibility" is, there is zero expectation you can get them to agree on how to apply the concept.
1. The man was not choked to death. The coroner's report does not support your contention.
2. The man resisted arrest. Considering his size in comparison to the officers, what would you have the officers do to enforce the arrest? How else would you incapacitate an individual of this size who will not give in to the arresting authority given to police officers?
3. The man had been arrested several times before. If I'm not mistaken, he had over 20 charges - most minor - so he should have some understanding of how the law works. Is it not possible, perhaps likely, that Garner resisted arrest previously or at least was uncooperative and it was Garner who escalated the incident this time?
4. If the officer is found to have used a procedure that was illegal or against police department rules, I expect him to be held to account by police conduct reviews and appropriately disciplined and perhaps removed from the force if that is deemed appropriate. I expect no less of the officer to submit to the legal process as I do Garner. The officer went through the grand jury process and now will be subject to the police department's protocol.
The sooner everyone understands and appreciates that rights of individuals can and may often be overridden by the authority vested in law enforcement officers the sooner these types of incidents will cease. This nonsense about shouting "I have rights" and resisting arrest just gets some people an untimely death. Exert your rights where they can be honored and enforced - in a court of law.
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