Do book bans violate the first amendment?

[Irredentist]

Sure, lots of people go overboard, even the ones who want to put books about sucking d#cks and buttf#cking, and having threesomes while playing hooky from school, and how to transition without one's parents finding out, in the elementar school libraries.

There's nothing wrong with students reading about sex. You should be grateful that they're reading a book at all.

 

[bongsaway]

Sure, lots of people go overboard, even the ones who want to put books about sucking d#cks and buttf#cking, and having threesomes while playing hooky from school, and how to transition without one's parents finding out, in the elementar school libraries.

Name a book that fits your description and is on any school shelf. You're no better than your republican leadership who will lie at the drop of a hat. Just make shit up and saying it doesn't make it true.

I hear all of the republicans who ban books are secretly pedophiles.

 

[Josie]

If it was bought for the school, they were asking for that book to begin with, then they should have a really damn good reason (academically) to remove it.

Have you read it, rogue?

 

[Josie]

There's nothing wrong with students reading about sex. You should be grateful that they're reading a book at all.

Any and every book that contains any level of sexual content for any age of student ...... or do you think there are some books that are inappropriate for certain age levels?

 

[Josie]

Name a book that fits your description and is on any school shelf. You're no better than your republican leadership who will lie at the drop of a hat. Just make shit up and saying it doesn't make it true.

I hear all of the republicans who ban books are secretly pedophiles.

So any Republican here who says some books are inappropriate for minors are actually pedophiles?

 

[Josie]

Here is a list

These 176 Books Were Banned in Duval County, Florida - PEN America

PEN America and We Need Diverse Books are calling attention to 176 banned books that Duval, County, Florida removed from classroom libraries in January 2022 for “review,” and kept in storage.

pen.org

Is this the link you're talking about @ClaraD where it will tell us that the books about Hank Aaron and Roberto Clemente have been removed from all libraries and classrooms in Duvall County Florida?

 

[Irredentist]

Any and every book that contains any level of sexual content for any age of student ...... or do you think there are some books that are inappropriate for certain age levels?

It really depends on the student. Kids who read at a more advanced level are usually able to handle more mature content for their age.

 

[Josie]

It really depends on the student. Kids who read at a more advanced level are usually able to handle more mature content for their age.

Disagree. Just because a student can read and understand at a higher level than his/her peers, that doesn't mean that the content is appropriate. If a 2nd grader is reading at a middle school level, that doesn't mean he/she should be reading descriptive oral sex or intercourse passages between characters, let alone reading about any adult-minor sexual relationships. It's very gross that you think they should.

 

[Irredentist]

Disagree. Just because a student can read and understand at a higher level than his/her peers, that doesn't mean that the content is appropriate. If a 2nd grader is reading at a middle school level, that doesn't mean he/she should be reading descriptive oral sex or intercourse passages between characters, let alone reading about any adult-minor sexual relationships. It's very gross that you think they should.

I can only speak from my own personal experience. I was an advanced reader in elementary school, and I was reading books containing sexual references and other mature themes well before any of my classmates.

 

[Josie]

I can only speak from my own personal experience. I was an advanced reader in elementary school, and I was reading books containing sexual references and other mature themes well before any of my classmates.

I'm not talking about books with just "sexual references". I'm talking about explicit sexual content. I'm gonna guess you're another one in these thread who really has no idea what I'm talking about in terms of the level of sexual content being written in books these days. Go read some and then you'll actually know what you're talking about.

 

[Irredentist]

I'm not talking about books with just "sexual references". I'm talking about explicit sexual content. I'm gonna guess you're another one in these thread who really has no idea what I'm talking about in terms of the level of sexual content being written in books these days. Go read some and then you'll actually know what you're talking about.

Middle school is a completely normal age for students to start reading descriptions of sex. I was reading about sex even earlier than that. There's nothing wrong with a child's natural curiosity.

 

[Josie]

Middle school is a completely normal age for students to start reading descriptions of sex. I was reading about sex even earlier than that. There's nothing wrong with a child's natural curiosity.

We weren't talking about a middle schooler, though. We were talking about a 2nd grader. Should a 2nd grader be provided explicit sexual content at school?

Are you going to read any of the books I mention so you'll actually have some knowledge of what we're discussing here?

 

[Irredentist]

We weren't talking about a middle schooler, though. We were talking about a 2nd grader. Should a 2nd grader be provided explicit sexual content at school?

Sixth grade and up is fine. Second graders aren't usually interested in learning about sex.

Are you going to read any of the books I mention so you'll actually have some knowledge of what we're discussing here?

I've read some of them already. I'm not upset just because a school library has books about sex. Mine did too.

 

[Josie]

Sixth grade and up is fine. Second graders aren't usually interested in learning about sex.

I've read some of them already. I'm not upset just because a school library has books about sex. Mine did too.

Which books?

If the 2nd grader is interested, should the school provide him/her explicit sexual content?

 

[Irredentist]

Which books?

Hard to say, I've read a lot of books. Have any particular ones in mind?

If the 2nd grader is interested, should the school provide him/her explicit sexual content?

No, I doubt they would be able to understand it.

 

[Josie]

Hard to say, I've read a lot of books. Have any particular ones in mind?

What books have you read that you consider to have sexually explicit content?

No, I doubt they would be able to understand it.

But the whole point of this side discussion was that you said a 2nd grader who is an advanced reader WOULD understand more mature content. Now they won't? If they do understand it, should the school provide them explicit sexual content?

 

[BrotherFease]

True story. Two male penguins raise a chick...book is banned. I ask, is this protecting children or some republican turning it into something it isn't and then banning it from school.

Who decides which books to ban? Who are they answerable to? Why are books by people like Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron banned? Are these kinds of actions by one group really representative of america?

The republican culture wars has gotten out of hand. DeSantis attacking Disney? Really?

School boards and the state government do have the jurisdiction to regulate what books can be borrowed at their school libraries. For example, do you think children should be allowed to go into a school public library and "borrow" the latest copy of Playboy/Playgirl magazine?

The problem is that these "book bans" are applied unevenly and unconstitutionally. Citing the penguin book is a great example. If the book was about two straight penguins, nobody would raise a finger. But because it's about two male penguins, then people are upset. This is what we call sex discrimination, which is unconstitutional under federal statues. Same principle, if we ban gay/lesbian teachers from talking about their spouses or putting photos on their desk. The application has to applied evenly. I think it is perfectly legit to say no books or photos with nudity is allowed in public schools. If there's nudity, there needs to be parental approval or apart of a topic about art.

We're seeing the same nonsense over a teacher showing Strange World in her classroom. The rules stated that Disney movies rated PG are fine to show, but because there's a gay character, then it became not okay. Discrimination based on sex.

 

[BrotherFease]

By "MAGA assholes" you must mean people with standards who believe only age appropriate material should be shown to little kids.

That's a completely subjective narrative. There needs to be set criteria. Florida has recently expanded its narrative to beyond K-3 grades. Now the lines are even more blurry.

 

[BirdinHand]

Actually, the parents of the school children who go to the school library ARE the ones who should be deciding what books are in that library. If you disagree with those parents, the YOU should be arguing with them instead of crying and whining about it.

No, John Doe that is a potato farmer and Mary Smith that is a stay at home mother - neither of whom have any advanced education or expertise around literature, librarian studies, education, etc should NOT be demanding control of what exists in a school district library. Nor should they have say in whether their child is taught algebra or world history in a public school.

The idea that uneducated, inexperienced laymen should dictate education standards is, on its face, absurd.

We don’t allow laymen to dictate what medical practices are. What safety protocols in engineering a bridge are. The design of an automobile or airplane. Why on earth should laymen dictate educational standards?

 

[Irredentist]

What books have you read that you consider to have sexually explicit content?

The list is just too long, but if you have specific books in mind, feel free to ask about them.

But the whole point of this side discussion was that you said a 2nd grader who is an advanced reader WOULD understand more mature content. Now they won't? If they do understand it, should the school provide them explicit sexual content?

I never specifically mentioned second graders, that was entirely you. I said that advanced readers can handle more mature content for their age, which is true. Every student's ability has to be judged individually.

 

[Josie]

The list is just too long, but if you have specific books in mind, feel free to ask about them.

I’m not asking you to list them all. Just a few.

I never specifically mentioned second graders, that was entirely you. I said that advanced readers can handle more mature content for their age, which is true. Every student's ability has to be judged individually.

And if that advanced reader is a 2nd grader who can read, is interested in and understand sexually explicit material should the school provide that for them?

 

[Mycroft]

No, John Doe that is a potato farmer and Mary Smith that is a stay at home mother - neither of whom have any advanced education or expertise around literature, librarian studies, education, etc should NOT be demanding control of what exists in a school district library. Nor should they have say in whether their child is taught algebra or world history in a public school.

Spoken like a true liberal.

"Shut up...we know better than you do."

 

[BirdinHand]

Spoken like a true liberal.

"Shut up...we know better than you do."

I don’t want a potato farmer flying my airplane or performing a surgery. Why on earth should he dictate curriculum or books?

 

[Mycroft]

I don’t want a potato farmer flying my airplane or performing a surgery. Why on earth should he dictate curriculum or books?
"shut up...we know better than you do."

Fixed that for you.

 

[mrjurrs]

School boards remove books. Let’s take Huck Finn as an example. You said if a book is removed because it bothers someone, then that's a book banning. Well, the racially insensitve language in the book bothers people. So removing that book is a ban, correct?

Same with the Dr. Seuss books that are said to have racially insensitive images. Removing those from the library because someone is bothered is a ban, right?

Would you agree that there is a historical reason this type of banning takes place?

Yes these are bans. Bans that do not reflect subject matter but specific content. Are the school boards banning all Dr. Seuss or all Mark Twain books? Are there other children's books or other books relating to black/white relationships available to the students or staff?