Dissent/Disloyalty

[DasTränegras]

Does dissent equal disloyalty? My position on this is that yes, dissent does mean one is not loyal to one's country and political leaders. At the same time, however, I am not sure that loyalty should be held up as the ideal of ideals in the political world.

Often, politics is a game of control, and should anyone have absolute loyalty towards their government leaders, then they have, in essence, lost that control. Should government ever possess trust in it's subjects? Historically, there has never been a government, then when trusted, used that trust wisely.

Disloyalty towards unjust governments has always served it's purpose of instituting just government, and suspicion has always served it's purpose of keeping government from taking too much control.

Thoughts?

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Does dissent equal disloyalty? My position on this is that yes, dissent does mean one is not loyal to one's country and political leaders. At the same time, however, I am not sure that loyalty should be held up as the ideal of ideals in the political world.

Not in a constitutional republic, where said leaders are required to swear an oath to defend said constitution.

Then should the government behave unconstitutionally, for the people to dissent against the actions of their leaders is loyalty; Loyalty to the principles the government or its leaders have betrayed. Loyalty to the rule of law, and to their countrymen; whose rights and liberty come from said constitution.

My loyalty is to our constitutional republic, not to its leaders. And should they behave despotically or tyrannically we the people have been encouraged by our revolutionary founders to dissent and overthrow them if need be.

Often, politics is a game of control, and should anyone have absolute loyalty towards their government leaders, then they have, in essence, lost that control. Should government ever possess trust in it's subjects? Historically, there has never been a government, then when trusted, used that trust wisely.

I disagree, governments do accomplish some things very well.

However, people should not blindly trust their governments, they should be skeptical and questioning.

Disloyalty towards unjust governments has always served it's purpose of instituting just government, and suspicion has always served it's purpose of keeping government from taking too much control.

Thoughts?

I think "disloyalty towards unjust governments" is a contradiction in terms.

 

[LaMidRighter]

Does dissent equal disloyalty? My position on this is that yes, dissent does mean one is not loyal to one's country and political leaders. At the same time, however, I am not sure that loyalty should be held up as the ideal of ideals in the political world.

Dissent means what the government assigns it, in Iran dissent is not only disloyal, it is potentially lethal, in a democratic republic however, which Lachean put very well, dissent is part of loyalty, we keep leaders in check by telling them they are out of line, they in turn get with the program or get replaced, this is an interesting query, as I see dissent in the United States as a natural result of the free exchange of ideas.

 

[Picaro]

Dissent is not 'disloyalty', in any definition. However, working for the interests of a foreign power under the guise of 'dissent' is. There is a difference between Gus Hall, paid by and actively working for the Soviet Union, and a Michael Harrington or Norman Thomas working from a legitimate belief. One is working for an overthrow and takeover by a foreign power, the other is working to improve the country, in their own opinion. Whether you personally agree that it is an improvement is beside the point.

Some of the biggest traitors in the U.S. are groups that make the most noise about 'patriotism' and 'freedom'. See the lists of stockholders, directors, and the politicians who accept bribes from them, who profit from moving businesses and technology to Red China for just one such group.

 

[Ikari]

Does dissent equal disloyalty? My position on this is that yes, dissent does mean one is not loyal to one's country and political leaders. At the same time, however, I am not sure that loyalty should be held up as the ideal of ideals in the political world.

Often, politics is a game of control, and should anyone have absolute loyalty towards their government leaders, then they have, in essence, lost that control. Should government ever possess trust in it's subjects? Historically, there has never been a government, then when trusted, used that trust wisely.

Disloyalty towards unjust governments has always served it's purpose of instituting just government, and suspicion has always served it's purpose of keeping government from taking too much control.

Thoughts?

Dissent is one of the highest forms of patriotism. Any free republic must allow dissent by the People so that the People can more closely contain and control the government. It's never, and I mean NEVER, disloyalty on the part of the People. The People are the source of all power. Any disloyalty to be had, exemplified through the use of dissent, would be disloyality from the government towards the People. The People are the soveriegns, not the State. Dissent and protest must be upheld to their maximum freedoms. There is no other way to have it.

 

[celticlord]

I've always enjoyed Michael Douglas' monologue at the end of The American President, for exactly this.

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free".

Enough said.

 

[sazerac]

Does dissent equal disloyalty?

Yes, if you are incorrect about your dissent. If you are wrong.

 

[Lopettaa]

Yes, if you are incorrect about your dissent. If you are wrong.

Yes, exactly, you have to be correct about your dissent. Then it will mean "disagree with" instead of "disloyalty".

 

[Picaro]

Yes, if you are incorrect about your dissent. If you are wrong.

I'm so relieved:2wave: somebody else agrees with my real thoughts; I thought I was the only one who felt like this. I do happen to think all Republicans should be shot for treason, and quite a few Democrats as well, and we need to do away with the secret ballot in order to find these traitors and get them off the streets. There really is no excuse for their actions.