Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the US.

[MMC]

This is freestyle discussion and debate over Local Police Locks Ups, County Jails, State Prisons and Federal Prisons in the US. The Type of Incarceration of each and what they are about and mean. Their purpose, their function, why they do what they do. What is wrong with each and how do they compare to one another. What is Right and their comparison. What can be done and most anything that correlates to the topic. Whether if a political angle is tied in or not. As Most states are different when it comes to their own laws and lock ups. So hopefully we will get many from different states all pitching in.

Which we would hope that most people do not need to find out those exact reasons why and wherefore. But people do use the words Interchangeably. Jail and Prison. Some think they apply the same standards. That Prisoners of the State shouldn't have Rights. Or laws that made that should remove certain crimes from being labeled or classified as such. From the Most violent offenders to the least minimal of offenders all locked up. Some people think it means all the same thing.

People are encouraged to add what they know and to expand the Topic along with whatever facts, figures, stats, and experiences they know of. Have fun use pics of, vids, of Local Lock Ups, County Jails, and Prisons. (show those from other States what yours are like) and let the Debate Crew show why we are the Best of the Best.

So beginning, I will start with that Jail is..... People awaiting trial; people sentenced for a short duration, typically less than a year.

Prison is.....People convicted of crimes; sentenced for a longer term than a year. In the U.S.A. : Run by the Prisons and Corrections office in the respective states. There are also federal prisons.

Pic of a Local Lock Up.

Pic of County Jail Cell.

Pic of Prison cell.

In the past year 3.7 million men and women (as well as juvenile offenders) were guests of a city, county, state or federal jail. Not all were as clean and neat as this "holding cell." (TOP PIC)

We hope that you never, ever have to spend even a few hours behind a prison cell and that this simply reminds you of the importance of your liberty. Jail cells cost about $40,000 per year per offender. This would include the cost of guards, food and the efforts to train prisoners for their return to the society that sent them to jail.

On a local level many police departments have what is known as a "drunk tank" or overnight cell. This would be a place to keep someone who would be bonded out in a few hours or simply needed to sober up. It is rare and expensive to keep someone in a city jail for more than a few hours.

Most persons charged with crimes are taken to one of more than 3,000 county jails where they can await trial or posting of a bond that guarantees their appearance. Persons who serve less than one year may be kept in a county jail.

When you hear a judge say one year, the actual time served would be more likely three months. The balance is deducted for good behavior and probation. Even a life term can be only seven years with some exceptions.

Correctional officers who are trained to handle prisoners are very brave men and women. They spend eight hour shifts inside the jail with no firearms for self defense and supervise from 50 to 100 inmates at a time. Jail officers must be able to keep the jail trouble-free and watch prisoners who might try to kill themselves or be killed by other prisoners. Every item in a jail is a potential weapon.

If you are thinking of a career in law enforcement, the biggest industry growth at this time is in new jails being built to house more and more offenders.

As one inmate said: "Life is a beautiful word except when used in a sentence.".....snip~

Jails and Prisons

 

[MMC]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

First is there anything that should be looked at when it is said that it is expensive to keep an individual in a local lock up? Have any thought about this? Why would the cost be more? Considering Most local lock-ups have to have Contactor to come in and clean the place. Despite 98% of the time, of moving the Person to County Jail.

Could local lock up be used to hold very minor petty offenses? What if the individual would sign away their Rights to take the Petty offense that calls for some local lock up.

Some places do hold Night court.

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

Mostly because of our foolish drug prohibition, the prison industrial complex in this country thrives. It is very expensive for the taxpayer, and in many cases is counterproductive and wasteful.

 

[nota bene]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

I guess it's a coincidence that when folks are arrested for drugs, they tend to have weapons in their possession, not all of them registered.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

I guess it's a coincidence that when folks are arrested for drugs, they tend to have weapons in their possession, not all of them registered.

It's not a coincidence, as drugs, particularly dealing drugs, is dangerous. You're interacting with some rather unsavory characters both buying and selling drugs. I'd want to be armed, too.

I think I'd want to be armed when guarding prisoners as well. I'm surprised to read that the guards are not.

I hadn't thought much about the differences between jails and prisons. Both of them lock people up. Both tend to be overcrowded, due to what Henry David pointed out above, as well as to the tendency for released prisoners to re offend and get re arrested.

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

I guess it's a coincidence that when folks are arrested for drugs, they tend to have weapons in their possession, not all of them registered.

Any idea about the actual numbers you reference? Federal v. state or local arrests?

 

[radcen]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

I guess it's a coincidence that when folks are arrested for drugs, they tend to have weapons in their possession, not all of them registered.

Nor is it a coincidence that when the Budweiser truck is delivering beer, and when people go to the store to purchase beer, pretty much none of them feel the need to carry weapons to do so. It's the illegality that creates the criminal culture and make people feel the need to arm themselves.

 

[Grand Mal]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

I guess it's a coincidence that when folks are arrested for drugs, they tend to have weapons in their possession, not all of them registered.

Well, then I guess they're in the bucket for a weapons offense, too. But I bet most drug offenders don't have weapons charges.

 

[tererun]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

You seem to have a good start, but I would like to mention forced rehab. Generally forced rehab is an alternative to actual jail time, though the facilities would be somewhat prison like. Forced rehab can either be assigned by the court as part of the punishment or in lieu of jail time, or the prison itself in some states (not sure about all of them) can send a prisoner to a program to get them out of jail and lower the prison population. Some of these facilities are a pay your way out of jail comfortable place to spend your drug sentence even though they may be restrictive. For exaqmple lindey lohan or other rich people can pay for a high priced facility like the betty ford clinic and basically avoid jail all together. These facilities also exist for the poor. many operate on multiple revenue streams including tax money, donations, and fees for people going in.

I would say these facilities are damned near worthless for much aside from opening up prisons and jails. They are often seen as a humanitarian way to treat drug offenders by labelling them as addicts and pretending we are doing something for them. This makes the budget for them easier to sell to the public, but their effectiveness is dismal for a few reasons. The major one is people do not go into manditory rehab because they want to get clean. They go there because it is better than prison, where you would have to detox anyway. I am not saying rehab does not have it's benefits for the section fo drug addicts who need a hand in detoxing and keeping off, but that is not why people get sentenced to these programs. It is hard enough to kick an addiction, but if you have yet to get to the point where the addiction is a problem you are simply not going to stay clean if you have an addiction problem. most people sentenced here are not evaluated on having an addiction problem. They are just sent there because they have drug charges of some sort. Using drugs does not mean you are addicted or even have a problem with them as many people are very functional and successful and partake of drugs as recreation.

These facilities are also more costly as they need security and shelter like a jail, but they also employ a number of higher paid professionals which jails employ less of. these are great places for high paid shrinks to pay off their med school bills and pay for their porsche. Since many of the people who go to these facilities are mandatory there is a certain job security in the field which comes from a forced customer base that would be much lower without punishment patients. Also, it is not necessary. A jail will detox a person without the shrinks, and with less medical professionals around. Unfortunately detox is only part of the problem with addicts and since you are already labelling them as criminals they end up sufffering from the same problems of poverty and joblessness when they get out of rehab as they do when they get out of jail. So really your success stories are the lucky dedicated few who get out and make something of themselves either way, and the rest suffer from the same thing over and over again.

Really, this form of incarceration is a feel good sinkhole of funding. If you think rehab is effective then it should be made available for everyone so that those who want help before they run into legal problems can try to get it. You cannot determine a person who actually wants to be off of drugs from a person who wants to keep out of jail. They are both sorry, they are both going to ask for help, and only one of them actually wants to stop using.

But I figured i would mention them as an incarceration alternative to prisons and jails that is often used and abused by the court system. personally I would rather send people to jail and offer a rehab program as part of their probation or parole time. This would actually detox people in prison, get them on a regiment, and then during rehab they could work on ways to stay off of drugs while not giving them a softer alternative to their punishment. I would not make it mandatory by the courts because as anyone who has ever tried to help a person struggling with addiction knows, they have to keep off of drugs because you cannot watch them all the time when they are free. Plus i am positive there is huge money to be made in rehab facilities who suck money off the state, donators, and the fees for people trying to avoid jail while really not doing much at all.

 

[MMC]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

By us.....in Indiana their local lock up.. It is stated that it is expensive to keep one there. Yet they have to have them. Once charged here.....within a couple of hrs they are taken to County Jail. Where they will stay and or bond out. As a matter of fact now.....one has to wait until their people are taken to the County jail.

The Local Police station has to Contract out for someone to come in and clean the Place. Which myself I don't understand this cost. When they have those they want to get out of Prisons with less than 6months and non violent crimes. They could keep people there to clean up cutting that cost to the Community.

Also why is the System just running on Daylight saving time. Should the period of time of the day decide when the Law should be governed?

 

[tererun]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

By us.....in Indiana their local lock up.. It is stated that it is expensive to keep one there. Yet they have to have them. Once charged here.....within a couple of hrs they are taken to County Jail. Where they will stay and or bond out. As a matter of fact now.....one has to wait until their people are taken to the County jail.

The Local Police station has to Contract out for someone to come in and clean the Place. Which myself I don't understand this cost. When they have those they want to get out of Prisons with less than 6months and non violent crimes. They could keep people there to clean up cutting that cost to the Community.

Also why is the System just running on Daylight saving time. Should the period of time of the day decide when the Law should be governed?

I knew some Cos in a CT jail in bridgeport and there was ways to actually use the prisoners and rewards systems to combat some of these problems. From what i understand the Facility housed multiple security level prisoners. There was the admitting area, a low security jail, and a high security area. The admitting area was awful to be in because there were prisoners there who would be detoxing and many were there on a temp basis waiting for their court cases, or waiting for bail. There was little to give the prisoners to keep them in line so the area was often vandalized or made dirty through sick or dirty prisoners.

However, the actual jail for short term people and the prison itself was fairluy clean and well maintained. They actually said th jail itself was spotless. This mainly happened because the jail was considered a "good" place to do time. If you broke any rules at all you were shipped off to a higher security area which had less things like cushy inmate jobs. The prisoners who had not been cleared to work for the prison or DOT and parks department basically had to clean up the barracks. I use barracks because it is the best word I can come up with for a place that houses 70-80 prisoners in bunks in one building with regulations on actions. The prisoners are in this place by choice, and they are told that their presence is dependent on the working with the other prisoners without disruption, and that being clean and organized is part of the price of admission. Since many are not yet approved for outside jobs, and are kept on hand as prisoners cycle in and out to be assigned to supervised work in unsecure areas they have to clean things daily and make sure things are orderly for those prisoners who are working. So those facilities are cleaned spotlessly on a daily basis. The COs that i knew often commented on how the prisoners lived in conditions cleaner than their own homes. The working prisoners also cleaned public areas for visitors and areas for the warden and administration. Though I heard they made some choices I would not make in the sort of people they allowed into the administrative areas, it seemed to be a very easy place for the COs to get assigned to.

The higher security prison often got some help from the jail population in doing maintenance and things like cooking, but for security purposes the jail inmates were kept segregated from their population. Still the prison ended up being cleaned regularly and fairly well because the prisoners tended to get a little violent with disgusting prisoners. From what the COs tell me, and other people I have met from inside, you can get your ass kicked for making common areas dirty and because all prisoners have to share a confined place you do not want to piss people off unless you have the power to do so.

i would imagine this doesn't work for all prisoners, but people who are trying to make the best of their time and not live in filth probably will work together to have things acceptable. It might just be NY and Ct prisons who have adopted this sort of separation of prisoners from the disgusting problem children in their own areas so they have something to work for in making their lives better, but I think other prison systems must do this also. I know that not every facility offers up a barracks type of system that might promote better conditions if done properly, and cells would be an area where one could run into some hygenic problems, but from what i have been told it is possible to get prisoners to police themselves in terms of cleanliness. You just have to be able to separate the prisoners. Sometimes that is not possible like in areas whcih are designed to house people who are in court or who are just arriving and may have not yet been cleaned up.

 

[MMC]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

The higher security prison often got some help from the jail population in doing maintenance and things like cooking, but for security purposes the jail inmates were kept segregated from their population. Still the prison ended up being cleaned regularly and fairly well because the prisoners tended to get a little violent with disgusting prisoners. From what the COs tell me, and other people I have met from inside, you can get your ass kicked for making common areas dirty and because all prisoners have to share a confined place you do not want to piss people off unless you have the power to do so.

i would imagine this doesn't work for all prisoners, but people who are trying to make the best of their time and not live in filth probably will work together to have things acceptable. It might just be NY and Ct prisons who have adopted this sort of separation of prisoners from the disgusting problem children in their own areas so they have something to work for in making their lives better, but I think other prison systems must do this also. I know that not every facility offers up a barracks type of system that might promote better conditions if done properly, and cells would be an area where one could run into some hygenic problems, but from what i have been told it is possible to get prisoners to police themselves in terms of cleanliness. You just have to be able to separate the prisoners. Sometimes that is not possible like in areas whcih are designed to house people who are in court or who are just arriving and may have not yet been cleaned up.[/QUOTE]

Heya TR. :2wave: Yeah.....most of the Newer Prisons look like the Second pic. Kinda like what one saw with the HBO Series OZ. No Bars or Jail Cell. Based on Security. All most all of those are ran somewhat differently than Prisons like Menard, Statesville, or Pontiac. Most are more cleaner and sanitary than the Older style prisons.

Myself I don't think people that get busted for petty offenses like Public intoxication. Should be put thru the system. Transferred to a County Jail. Cost taxpayers money for shipping them around. Housing in another place etc etc. Something like a Local lock up could be used for such. Still puts them in touch with the system, they could be used for the community for whatever. Even if a Judge overnight or up to a 72hr lock up.

Naturally inside the Prison system it is based on reward and punishment measures. Yet they must have this. As you can't have 3000 people just put thru harsh conditions by a system that holds a minimal staff. They will rise up and take over the Prison which then they have major problems. They meaning that state.

 

[tererun]

Re: Discussion: Local Lock-Up vs County Jail vs State Prison vs Federal Prison in the

Heya TR. :2wave: Yeah.....most of the Newer Prisons look like the Second pic. Kinda like what one saw with the HBO Series OZ. No Bars or Jail Cell. Based on Security. All most all of those are ran somewhat differently than Prisons like Menard, Statesville, or Pontiac. Most are more cleaner and sanitary than the Older style prisons.

Myself I don't think people that get busted for petty offenses like Public intoxication. Should be put thru the system. Transferred to a County Jail. Cost taxpayers money for shipping them around. Housing in another place etc etc. Something like a Local lock up could be used for such. Still puts them in touch with the system, they could be used for the community for whatever. Even if a Judge overnight or up to a 72hr lock up.

Naturally inside the Prison system it is based on reward and punishment measures. Yet they must have this. As you can't have 3000 people just put thru harsh conditions by a system that holds a minimal staff. They will rise up and take over the Prison which then they have major problems. They meaning that state.

I would guess prisons have been improving. it is probably hard to adapt old buildings to new ideas so re-engineered penal system ideas would take some time to implement and experiment with.

I would say people are sold a different bill of good with prisons than they are actually used for. Maybe a long time ago prisons were a penal system, but now they are just incarceration which is the punishment. This leads to a different way of thinking in how you regard prisoners and it should also change how you view crime as a society. I actually have somewhat of an interest in the prison system. I am not a huge expert, but I have a curiosity about prisons and law enforcement that makes me look things up and talk to people in the system. Plus i have been on probation before which helped me meet some other criminals Wheee ! Anyone who has been on probation knows you are not supposed to interract with other criminals while on probation, but that probation is also the place where you interract with other criminals. The US penal system is full of really stupid contradictions.

Our prison system is what it is because it has pretty much become about keeping people in and it has really become an industry. Corrections officers do a hard job, and there is certainly a need for prisons because people break laws even though there is punishment, so the system is going to be there. It is a system i feel should be costly and not profitable. jails for profit are a terrible idea because they encourage incarceration and the institutionalization of people within them. It should never be easy or even beneficial financially to imprison a person because then the government starts looking for reasons to imprison people. Still we need prisons because there are people who we need to get out of society. I am all for imprisoning people for murder, rape, robbery, and assault. Send me a bill i will gladly contribute.

I just find people who have never been in jail or who do not research it have no idea about what it is. There is a certain part of society that actually is better off in jail. It is the only place they can have a job, food, shelter, and survival. I was talking to a CO who was really good friends with an ideal inmate. So much so he actually tried to offer him a place to stay when he got out. They guy was stringing along drug convictions. From what the CO said this guy was trustworthy, hard working, and personable. The inmate turned him down because he knew he would get out and just drag the CO down. He was an addict who could not deal with the opportunity, and he did great in a supervised environment with someone else controlling him. He just knew it was better to be bounced back in on drug charges or something else than to take out someone who cared. Of course, this is not everyone, but there are people who excel in prison, and I am not talking about becoming some criminal leader. I liken it to a similar personality to a person who excels at being a military grunt. Maybe they are the same personality type separated by influences of life, or maybe they are similar but different people, but there are people who really need someone to tell them what to do and watch out for them, and they can be reliable extremely hard working people.

Again, do not get me wrong there is some severe evil in jail that is there because it does nothing but destroy. In a perfect world i wonder if there could be a sort of military opr prison like free system for people who excel under the command and guidance of others. I would love to suggest it for this world and then i realize there would be so many people who would twist it and use those people that I cannot even bring myself to reasonable endorse it. I have seen people who cannot take care of themselves, but are really valuable to a person who they can trust to look out for them. It seems like some of those people do well in prison because society says it is OK to command them because they did wrong. I used to think the military was screwed up until i realized they are probably the best place for a person like that to make a huge and important person out of themselves. I am not saying all succesful military people are like this, but rather that people who are probably find an idea environment for contribution in the military.

It is a hard and long issue that is complicated by the fact society doesn't seem to address it in an honest manor.