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Discussion: Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.....

This is an Open discussion concerning these Two People. They are classified as Civil Rights Leaders. Should they be? Why should they be Civil Rights leaders? Is it because they are a minority and that they were at one point in their lives involved with a movement that was bigger than themselves?

What basis is there that they be defined as a Leader?

Why are they given a voice with the media? Can this be changed?

Should these two guys be addressed as a problem in the country? Should they be allowed to stir up Racial tensions in a Country that is divided by Red White and Blue? But more between Red and Blue.

Should both be told to stay out of others peoples Business and to worry about their own Communities they live in? For what reason should they allowed to be brought upon the political stage?

So basically you are saying these two just because they are pointing out there is Social injustice and social inequity in the society they should be marked as trouble maker and agitators and therefore their voice taken away?

How about others like Christian evangelicals like Falwell Robertson, they too stir up trouble by and crying out wolf for non-existence war on Christians, and Christmas, or right and left wing talk show hosts, why are they escaping your scrutiny?

As a matter of fact, Jessie and Sharpton have been around since 60's and thier massage really has not been changed much, so just going by they data they are more and less are inconsequential. However I think we all can agree the country is far more polarized than before, so I submit the evangelist and talking punted have had more negative effect on the society than these two, so you should really be more worried about them to stir trouble and be agitators than Sharpton and Jessie Jackson.

Diving Mullah
 
So basically you are saying these two just because they are pointing out there is Social injustice and social inequity in the society they should be marked as trouble maker and agitators and therefore their voice taken away?

How about others like Christian evangelicals like Falwell Robertson, they too stir up trouble by and crying out wolf for non-existence war on Christians, and Christmas, or right and left wing talk show hosts, why are they escaping your scrutiny?

As a matter of fact, Jessie and Sharpton have been around since 60's and thier massage really has not been changed much, so just going by they data they are more and less are inconsequential. However I think we all can agree the country is far more polarized than before, so I submit the evangelist and talking punted have had more negative effect on the society than these two, so you should really be more worried about them to stir trouble and be agitators than Sharpton and Jessie Jackson.

Diving Mullah

There is no such thing as Social Justice.....there is only Justice. No terms to place before Justice. Justice is blind.

Also.....no others out there now can garner the that All Seeing Eye, like these two can.

Those on the Right that do the same don't escape my scrutiny. But we weren't talking about them. We were talking about these two. With all their recent antics.

Yes I know Jesse has been around since the 60s. I also know when Jesse found Jesus after getting caught up banging, and was never part of MLK's inner circle. Course I always looked at that if.....MLK isn't killed. Then both Jesse and Sharptones.....don't ever amount to the simplest pile of ****.
 
This is an Open discussion concerning these Two People. They are classified as Civil Rights Leaders. Should they be? Why should they be Civil Rights leaders? Is it because they are a minority and that they were at one point in their lives involved with a movement that was bigger than themselves?

What basis is there that they be defined as a Leader?

Why are they given a voice with the media? Can this be changed?

Should these two guys be addressed as a problem in the country? Should they be allowed to stir up Racial tensions in a Country that is divided by Red White and Blue? But more between Red and Blue.

Should both be told to stay out of others peoples Business and to worry about their own Communities they live in? For what reason should they allowed to be brought upon the political stage?

Lead? No, they drag the nation back 50 years....
 
There is no such thing as Social Justice.....there is only Justice. No terms to place before Justice. Justice is blind.

Also.....no others out there now can garner the that All Seeing Eye, like these two can.

Those on the Right that do the same don't escape my scrutiny. But we weren't talking about them. We were talking about these two. With all their recent antics.

Yes I know Jesse has been around since the 60s. I also know when Jesse found Jesus after getting caught up banging, and was never part of MLK's inner circle. Course I always looked at that if.....MLK isn't killed. Then both Jesse and Sharptones.....don't ever amount to the simplest pile of ****.

Seriously....hmmmmm

One. The US has seen a surge in arrests and putting people in jail over the last four decades. Most of the reason is the war on drugs. Yet whites and blacks engage in drug offenses, possession and sales, at roughly comparable rates – according to a report on race and drug enforcement published by Human Rights Watch in May 2008. While African Americans comprise 13% of the US population and 14% of monthly drug users they are 37% of the people arrested for drug offenses – according to 2009 Congressional testimony by Marc Mauer of The Sentencing Project.

Two. The police stop blacks and Latinos at rates that are much higher than whites. In New York City, where people of color make up about half of the population, 80% of the NYPD stops were of blacks and Latinos. When whites were stopped, only 8% were frisked. When blacks and Latinos are stopped 85% were frisked according to information provided by the NYPD. The same is true most other places as well. In a California study, the ACLU found blacks are three times more likely to be stopped than whites.

Three. Since 1970, drug arrests have skyrocketed rising from 320,000 to close to 1.6 million according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics of the U.S. Department of Justice.

African Americans are arrested for drug offenses at rates 2 to 11 times higher than the rate for whites – according to a May 2009 report on disparity in drug arrests by Human Rights Watch.

Four. Once arrested, blacks are more likely to remain in prison awaiting trial than whites. For example, the New York state division of criminal justice did a 1995 review of disparities in processing felony arrests and found that in some parts of New York blacks are 33% more likely to be detained awaiting felony trials than whites facing felony trials.

Five. Once arrested, 80% of the people in the criminal justice system get a public defender for their lawyer. Race plays a big role here as well. Stop in any urban courtroom and look a the color of the people who are waiting for public defenders. Despite often heroic efforts by public defenders the system gives them much more work and much less money than the prosecution. The American Bar Association, not a radical bunch, reviewed the US public defender system in 2004 and concluded “All too often, defendants plead guilty, even if they are innocent, without really understanding their legal rights or what is occurring…The fundamental right to a lawyer that America assumes applies to everyone accused of criminal conduct effectively does not exist in practice for countless people across the US.”

Six. African Americans are frequently illegally excluded from criminal jury service according to a June 2010 study released by the Equal Justice Initiative. For example in Houston County, Alabama, 8 out of 10 African Americans qualified for jury service have been struck by prosecutors from serving on death penalty cases.

Seven. Trials are rare. Only 3 to 5 percent of criminal cases go to trial – the rest are plea bargained. Most African Americans defendants never get a trial. Most plea bargains consist of promise of a longer sentence if a person exercises their constitutional right to trial. As a result, people caught up in the system, as the American Bar Association points out, plead guilty even when innocent. Why? As one young man told me recently, “Who wouldn’t rather do three years for a crime they didn’t commit than risk twenty-five years for a crime they didn’t do?”

Eight. The U.S. Sentencing Commission reported in March 2010 that in the federal system black offenders receive sentences that are 10% longer than white offenders for the same crimes. Marc Mauer of the Sentencing Project reports African Americans are 21% more likely to receive mandatory minimum sentences than white defendants and 20% more like to be sentenced to prison than white drug defendants.

Nine. The longer the sentence, the more likely it is that non-white people will be the ones getting it. A July 2009 report by the Sentencing Project found that two-thirds of the people in the US with life sentences are non-white. In New York, it is 83%.

Ten. As a result, African Americans, who are 13% of the population and 14% of drug users, are not only 37% of the people arrested for drugs but 56% of the people in state prisons for drug offenses. Marc Mauer May 2009 Congressional Testimony for The Sentencing Project.

Eleven. The US Bureau of Justice Statistics concludes that the chance of a black male born in 2001 of going to jail is 32% or 1 in three. Latino males have a 17% chance and white males have a 6% chance. Thus black boys are five times and Latino boys nearly three times as likely as white boys to go to jail.

Twelve. So, while African American juvenile youth is but 16% of the population, they are 28% of juvenile arrests, 37% of the youth in juvenile jails and 58% of the youth sent to adult prisons. 2009 Criminal Justice Primer, The Sentencing Project.

Thirteen. Remember that the US leads the world in putting our own people into jail and prison. The New York Times reported in 2008 that the US has five percent of the world’s population but a quarter of the world’s prisoners, over 2.3 million people behind bars, dwarfing other nations. The US rate of incarceration is five to eight times higher than other highly developed countries and black males are the largest percentage of inmates according to ABC News.

Fourteen. Even when released from prison, race continues to dominate. A study by Professor Devah Pager of the University of Wisconsin found that 17% of white job applicants with criminal records received call backs from employers while only 5% of black job applicants with criminal records received call backs. Race is so prominent in that study that whites with criminal records actually received better treatment than blacks without criminal records!


In Data and Statistics seem to disagree with you.

Diving Mullah
 
Seriously....hmmmmm

One. The US has seen a surge in arrests and putting people in jail over the last four decades. Most of the reason is the war on drugs. Yet whites and blacks engage in drug offenses, possession and sales, at roughly comparable rates – according to a report on race and drug enforcement published by Human Rights Watch in May 2008. While African Americans comprise 13% of the US population and 14% of monthly drug users they are 37% of the people arrested for drug offenses – according to 2009 Congressional testimony by Marc Mauer of The Sentencing Project.

Two. The police stop blacks and Latinos at rates that are much higher than whites. In New York City, where people of color make up about half of the population, 80% of the NYPD stops were of blacks and Latinos. When whites were stopped, only 8% were frisked. When blacks and Latinos are stopped 85% were frisked according to information provided by the NYPD. The same is true most other places as well. In a California study, the ACLU found blacks are three times more likely to be stopped than whites.

Three. Since 1970, drug arrests have skyrocketed rising from 320,000 to close to 1.6 million according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics of the U.S. Department of Justice.

African Americans are arrested for drug offenses at rates 2 to 11 times higher than the rate for whites – according to a May 2009 report on disparity in drug arrests by Human Rights Watch.

Four. Once arrested, blacks are more likely to remain in prison awaiting trial than whites. For example, the New York state division of criminal justice did a 1995 review of disparities in processing felony arrests and found that in some parts of New York blacks are 33% more likely to be detained awaiting felony trials than whites facing felony trials.

Five. Once arrested, 80% of the people in the criminal justice system get a public defender for their lawyer. Race plays a big role here as well. Stop in any urban courtroom and look a the color of the people who are waiting for public defenders. Despite often heroic efforts by public defenders the system gives them much more work and much less money than the prosecution. The American Bar Association, not a radical bunch, reviewed the US public defender system in 2004 and concluded “All too often, defendants plead guilty, even if they are innocent, without really understanding their legal rights or what is occurring…The fundamental right to a lawyer that America assumes applies to everyone accused of criminal conduct effectively does not exist in practice for countless people across the US.”

Six. African Americans are frequently illegally excluded from criminal jury service according to a June 2010 study released by the Equal Justice Initiative. For example in Houston County, Alabama, 8 out of 10 African Americans qualified for jury service have been struck by prosecutors from serving on death penalty cases.

Seven. Trials are rare. Only 3 to 5 percent of criminal cases go to trial – the rest are plea bargained. Most African Americans defendants never get a trial. Most plea bargains consist of promise of a longer sentence if a person exercises their constitutional right to trial. As a result, people caught up in the system, as the American Bar Association points out, plead guilty even when innocent. Why? As one young man told me recently, “Who wouldn’t rather do three years for a crime they didn’t commit than risk twenty-five years for a crime they didn’t do?”

Eight. The U.S. Sentencing Commission reported in March 2010 that in the federal system black offenders receive sentences that are 10% longer than white offenders for the same crimes. Marc Mauer of the Sentencing Project reports African Americans are 21% more likely to receive mandatory minimum sentences than white defendants and 20% more like to be sentenced to prison than white drug defendants.

Nine. The longer the sentence, the more likely it is that non-white people will be the ones getting it. A July 2009 report by the Sentencing Project found that two-thirds of the people in the US with life sentences are non-white. In New York, it is 83%.

Ten. As a result, African Americans, who are 13% of the population and 14% of drug users, are not only 37% of the people arrested for drugs but 56% of the people in state prisons for drug offenses. Marc Mauer May 2009 Congressional Testimony for The Sentencing Project.

Eleven. The US Bureau of Justice Statistics concludes that the chance of a black male born in 2001 of going to jail is 32% or 1 in three. Latino males have a 17% chance and white males have a 6% chance. Thus black boys are five times and Latino boys nearly three times as likely as white boys to go to jail.

Twelve. So, while African American juvenile youth is but 16% of the population, they are 28% of juvenile arrests, 37% of the youth in juvenile jails and 58% of the youth sent to adult prisons. 2009 Criminal Justice Primer, The Sentencing Project.

Thirteen. Remember that the US leads the world in putting our own people into jail and prison. The New York Times reported in 2008 that the US has five percent of the world’s population but a quarter of the world’s prisoners, over 2.3 million people behind bars, dwarfing other nations. The US rate of incarceration is five to eight times higher than other highly developed countries and black males are the largest percentage of inmates according to ABC News.

Fourteen. Even when released from prison, race continues to dominate. A study by Professor Devah Pager of the University of Wisconsin found that 17% of white job applicants with criminal records received call backs from employers while only 5% of black job applicants with criminal records received call backs. Race is so prominent in that study that whites with criminal records actually received better treatment than blacks without criminal records!


In Data and Statistics seem to disagree with you.

Diving Mullah

Stats and Data to try and explain away a eupherism? I don't think so.

Anytime someone puts a Word in front of Justice.....it is no longer Justice. As there can be only Justice and Injustice......Social Justice is an eupherism for Equality.

Social Justice is a term that was created by the Left. As anything dating back into antiquity was either Justice or an Injustice. What other types of Justice are there?

Whether the ideology calls itself radical, leftist or liberal, its primary emphasis is on "social justice," i.e., making society more just. Now, of course, Judeo-Christian values also seek to create a just society. Any system rooted in the Old Testament prophets and teachings of Jesus is going to be preoccupied with how to make a just society.
 
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