Did the Exodus of the Hebrews from Egypt actually happen?

[Somerville]

"...The response was that we can't expect to find any evidence of people wandering around in a desert"


Toilets. They track tribes in all areas by the waste they leave. Burials as well, usually markeed as such. Ther are none were there should be millions

A few words for those skeptics who believe that anti-Exodus commenters ain't got a clue -- Finding Evidence of Ancient Nomads

Recent research[1] has revealed that, contrary to earlier ideas,[2] nomads leave plenty of remains; finding them is simply a question of looking. We can now go beyond Holmes’s feat of simply dating the remains and noting their presence; archaeologists can make reasonable guesses about the nomadic seasonal round and about relations between nomads and their settled cousins. This kind of data is especially useful to Biblical archaeologists who study Iron Age settlements in the Negev that provide the background for the Israelites’ emergence in Canaan.[3]
1] https://www.baslibrary.org/biblical-archaeology-review/14/5/3/en/1?width=600
2] https://www.baslibrary.org/biblical-archaeology-review/14/5/3/en/2?width=600

For example, much of the implicit reasoning behind the Amorite nomadic explanation for the end of the Early Bronze Age was based on the assumption that nomads leave few remains. The original apparent relative scarcity of sites following Early Bronze III was thus taken a priori as evidence of the nomadic character of the invaders.​

3] https://www.baslibrary.org/biblical-archaeology-review/14/5/3/en/3?width=600

 

[Somerville]

More discussion of Judaism and its origin following the supposed Exodus from Egypt, this time from archaeologist Yonatan Adler of Ariel University in Israel.

Is Judaism a Younger Religion Than Previously Thought?​

A new book by an Israeli archaeologist makes the stunning claim that common Jewish practices emerged only a century or so before Jesus

It’s the grandparent of Islam and Christianity and one of the world’s oldest surviving religions, by some counts dating back nearly 4,000 years. This, at least, has long been a common view of Judaism. But now an Israeli archaeologist is challenging those long-held assumptions.

Based on 15 years of studying textual and archaeological evidence, Yonatan Adler of Ariel University, in the West Bank, concludes that ordinary Judeans didn’t consistently celebrate Passover, hold the Sabbath sacred or practice other traditional forms of Jewish ritual until a century or so before the birth of Jesus. If his theory proves correct, then Judaism is, at best, Christianity’s elder sibling and a younger cousin to the religions of ancient Greece and Rome.

Another scholar who has written some books on a related subject - the origin of the Torah - is Russell Gmirkin. His primary thesis is that the books commonly thought of as originating several centuries before the time of the Babylonian Captivity were actually composed in the Hellenistic period, following Alexander's conquest of the region.

Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus: Hellenistic Histories and the Date of the Pentateuch​

Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible​

Plato’s Timaeus and the Biblical Creation Accounts: Cosmic Monotheism and Terrestrial Polytheism in the Primordial History​

A semi-critical Review of Russell E. Gmirkin's, Plato and the Creation of the Hebrew Bible

The book is presented, according to the introduction (pp. 1-8), as the sequel to the book Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus: Hellenistic Histories and the Date of the Pentateuch (Copenhagen International Series 15), New York, 2006, in which the author sought to demonstrate that Berossus was the principal source of the authors of Genesis 1-11, and Manetho, the principal source of the authors of Exodus. The idea is that the Pentateuch was written in the Great Library of Alexandria in the neighborhood of 270 BCE. The authors were specifically the Seventy, Jewish scholars, that later tradition credits with the translation of the Pentateuch into Greek around 273-269 BCE. The thesis is therefore clear: the Pentateuch is a Greek work inspired by Greek sources. The book is structured in six chapters each followed by bibliography relating to that chapter. An index of sources and an index of authors closes the volume.

Why is a new volume necessary for the thesis of the author? Precisely because the historians Berossus and Manetho do not constitute sufficient sources to explain the whole of the Pentateuch, also known as the Law (Torah). Thus, the thesis that the author pursues in this sequel to the first volume is that the Pentateuch in its legal parts is inspired by Platonic sources to which the Seventy had access in the Great Library of Alexandria.

The reviewer is not 100% in favour of Gmirkin's thesis

As a final word, it is clear that the detailed comparisons between the Greek and Biblical systems of legislation are of immense value and definitely advance comparative studies on this subject. It is now up to those who will look into these questions to draw all the historical fruit of this work, and show what influences belong to which corpus and how Greek history and sources can illuminate the history of the biblical text in its depth without giving up its Near Eastern influences.

 

[Logicman]

I'll need a source for conservatives supporting the poor.

Statistics on U.S. Generosity

In this section you’ll find charts and graphs laying out the most important numbers in American philanthropy. They document how much we give, how that has changed over time, what Read more...

www.philanthropyroundtable.org

Jesus didn't (according to the folklore) support the militarys.

Jesus is God in scripture and in the Old Testament God supported any number of military offenses against enemy nations, etc.

 

[Logicman]

Skeptics of the Exodus -

Show me where there have been excavations of over 50 feet in depth in the desert in order to find artifacts from the Exodus? List them below.

Also, from the following article:

"Moreover, uncovering objects buried 3,200 years ago is a daunting endeavor. An Israeli colleague laughingly told me that a vehicle that had been lost in the 1973 Yom Kippur War was recently uncovered under 16 meters—that’s 52 feet—of sand. Fifty-two feet in 40 years!"

The Exodus Is Not Fiction

There is archaeological evidence and especially textual evidence for the Exodus, if it was a smaller group who left Egypt.

reformjudaism.org

 

[mrjurrs]

View attachment 67431715

Statistics on U.S. Generosity

In this section you’ll find charts and graphs laying out the most important numbers in American philanthropy. They document how much we give, how that has changed over time, what Read more...

www.philanthropyroundtable.org

Jesus is God in scripture and in the Old Testament God supported any number of military offenses against enemy nations, etc.

Got anything from the present time?

 

[Logicman]

Got anything from the present time?

Those figures were as of 2016. That's close enough.

 

[mrjurrs]

Google it yourself

So you don't have anything from current times. Got it.

 

[Logicman]

So you don't have anything from current times. Got it.

Just like a liberal - always wanting conservatives or government to set the table for you so you can eat.

 

[mrjurrs]

Just like a liberal - always wanting conservatives or government to set the table for you so you can eat.

View attachment 67431793

And so we see the heart of a christian...

Love thy neighbor my ass

 

[Somerville]

Skeptics of the Exodus -

Show me where there have been excavations of over 50 feet in depth in the desert in order to find artifacts from the Exodus? List them below.

Also, from the following article:

"Moreover, uncovering objects buried 3,200 years ago is a daunting endeavor. An Israeli colleague laughingly told me that a vehicle that had been lost in the 1973 Yom Kippur War was recently uncovered under 16 meters—that’s 52 feet—of sand. Fifty-two feet in 40 years!"

The Exodus Is Not Fiction

There is archaeological evidence and especially textual evidence for the Exodus, if it was a smaller group who left Egypt.

reformjudaism.org

Either you didn't read all of the linked article, or you did and failed to comprehend the professor's words -- words that tell us the 'Exodus of the Bible' never happened. A few thousand refugees doesn't quite fit the tale we can read with its "603,550 males" and wives and children and beasts of burden (no camels) and four-legged creatures to dine on. Another small matter where Prof. Friedman disagrees with the consensus is the date of the Exodus with him saying it happened during the reign of either Rameses II or Merneptah in the late years of the 13th century BCE.

IF, and I repeat IF, the story of the buried vehicle is true, ask yourself - Where did that much sand come from? If one spot gains 15 meters of sand, other areas would have to be stripped clean of the sand.

 

[Logicman]

Either you didn't read all of the linked article, or you did and failed to comprehend the professor's words -- words that tell us the 'Exodus of the Bible' never happened. A few thousand refugees doesn't quite fit the tale we can read with its "603,550 males" and wives and children and beasts of burden (no camels) and four-legged creatures to dine on. Another small matter where Prof. Friedman disagrees with the consensus is the date of the Exodus with him saying it happened during the reign of either Rameses II or Merneptah in the late years of the 13th century BCE.

IF, and I repeat IF, the story of the buried vehicle is true, ask yourself - Where did that much sand come from? If one spot gains 15 meters of sand, other areas would have to be stripped clean of the sand.

Still waiting...

Show me where there have been excavations of over 50 feet in depth in the desert in order to find artifacts from the Exodus?

 

[Logicman]

And so we see the heart of a christian...

Love thy neighbor my ass

<yawn>

Go whine to your pet carp.

 

[Somerville]

Still waiting...

Show me where there have been excavations of over 50 feet in depth in the desert in order to find artifacts from the Exodus?

Unable to answer a simple question, as is normal for you. Where did the sand covering the vehicle originate? Also, there is the small problem that I can't find any report on such a finding, using several search engines. Until you find some backup for the Professor's joke, I'll just view it as you lacking a sense of humor unable to understand a joke.

There is no need to dig down 50 feet for most archaeological digs with the use of GPR becoming more common for the geeks, no need to dig until there is a response on the screen of the searching device.

Using Ground-Penetrating Radar on Archaeological Sites​

Remote Sensing in Archaeology​

Using Ground Penetrating Radar to Reveal Hidden Archaeology​

for videos showing how GPR is used by archaeologists

 

[bomberfox]

No, he wasn't. List of examples why he wasn't a liberal is in the following article.

Was Jesus a liberal?

(Updated June 11, 2016) By Pete Righter “The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.” – Ecclesiastes 10:2 Was Jesus a liberal? Regularly, o…

righterreport.com

Those verses were written before anyone had a concept of right or left wing

 

[Logicman]

Unable to answer a simple question, as is normal for you. Where did the sand covering the vehicle originate? Also, there is the small problem that I can't find any report on such a finding, using several search engines. Until you find some backup for the Professor's joke, I'll just view it as you lacking a sense of humor unable to understand a joke.

There is no need to dig down 50 feet for most archaeological digs with the use of GPR becoming more common for the geeks, no need to dig until there is a response on the screen of the searching device.

Using Ground-Penetrating Radar on Archaeological Sites​

Remote Sensing in Archaeology​

Using Ground Penetrating Radar to Reveal Hidden Archaeology​

for videos showing how GPR is used by archaeologists

OK, so you can't cite any digs going down 50 feet or more. So, you lose the debate on finding artifacts, most of which would have decomposed long ago anyway, making your ground-penetrating radar useless for all intents and purposes.

 

[mrjurrs]

Either you didn't read all of the linked article, or you did and failed to comprehend the professor's words -- words that tell us the 'Exodus of the Bible' never happened. A few thousand refugees doesn't quite fit the tale we can read with its "603,550 males" and wives and children and beasts of burden (no camels) and four-legged creatures to dine on. Another small matter where Prof. Friedman disagrees with the consensus is the date of the Exodus with him saying it happened during the reign of either Rameses II or Merneptah in the late years of the 13th century BCE.

IF, and I repeat IF, the story of the buried vehicle is true, ask yourself - Where did that much sand come from? If one spot gains 15 meters of sand, other areas would have to be stripped clean of the sand.

Sand does not remain in one place.

 

[Somerville]

OK, so you can't cite any digs going down 50 feet or more. So, you lose the debate on finding artifacts, most of which would have decomposed long ago anyway, making your ground-penetrating radar useless for all intents and purposes.

Once again, your words reveal your ignorance in relation to what is being found in archaeological digs. Some of the primary items used by those weird people who go around digging holes in the ground looking for weird shit, are ceramic sherds - a material that doesn't decompose while it is buried.

Here's a link to an article that you might read, I think that you won't, because it does provide evidence in conflict with your personal beliefs.

A Strange Drawing Found in Sinai Could Undermine Our Entire Idea of Judaism​

Is that a 3,000-year-old picture of god, his penis and his wife depicted by early Jews at Kuntillet Ajrud?

More than four decades after its excavation wound down, a small hill in the Sinai Desert continues to bedevil archaeologists. The extraordinary discoveries made at Kuntillet Ajrud, an otherwise nondescript slope in the northern Sinai, seem to undermine one of the foundations of Judaism as we know it.

Then, it seems, "the Lord our God” wasn't “one God.” He may have even had a wife, going by the completely unique "portrait" of the Jewish deity that archaeologists found at the site, which may well be the only existing depiction of YHWH.

Kuntillet Ajrud got its name, meaning “the isolated hill of the water sources," from wells at the foot of the hill. It is a remote spot in the heart of the desert, far from any town or or trade route. But for a short time around 3,000 years ago, it served as a small way station.

Another page to peruse: Patterns of Evidence

Other than soil, the most prevalent material that emerges from an excavation is almost always broken pottery. These pieces resting on the surface are usually tell-tale signs that the location was the scene of a settlement—everything else may still be buried with no other features protruding above the surface. The archaeologist or surveyor will then plot the site on a map and report it to the authorities. Eventually, someone may come to investigate further with ground penetrating radar or actual excavation.

 

[Daisy]

It is no secret that the Israelite nation failed to remain faithful to Jehovah, time after time, so naturally there is going to be physical/archeological evidence of that disobedience left behind long after they are gone...their lack of faith/obedience to God’s instructions through his Son cost the majority of them a place in His Kingdom government, opening the way for many non-Jews to become part of the chosen nation of spiritual Israel...

“The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” Matthew 21:43

 

[Logician Man]

It is no secret that the Israelite nation failed to remain faithful to Jehovah, time after time, so naturally there is going to be physical/archeological evidence of that disobedience left behind long after they are gone...their lack of faith/obedience to God’s instructions through his Son cost the majority of them a place in His Kingdom government, opening the way for many non-Jews to become part of the chosen nation of spiritual Israel...

“The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” Matthew 21:43

@Parrish. The above may be the answer to the question you asked below a while back that went unanswered for whatever reason(s).
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Parrish said:

@Elora, how do Jehovah's Witnesses feel about Jews?

 

[Parrish]

@Parrish. The above may be the answer to the question you asked below a while back that went unanswered for whatever reason(s).
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Parrish said:

@Elora, how do Jehovah's Witnesses feel about Jews?

@Logician Man,of course, she wouldn't answer. She's shanda, that is, shamed in Yiddish.

 

[Napoleon]

Where did the sand covering the vehicle originate?

Oh come on, Somerville. You know that nobody is tracking grains of sand in the desert. Don’t be ridiculous. It’s a ******* desert. Where do you think the sand came from?

 

[Gordy327]

I don't see Star Wars being scrutinized, seriously discussed and debated by scholars, philosophers and scientists.

I like Star Wars. What would you like to discuss?

 

[Gordy327]

You won't find a JW on God's green earth holding a political office anywhere...

Good!

 

[Gordy327]

I don't know whether it did or not, but I'm pretty sure nobody parted any sea.

Like many biblical stories, the Exodus, Plagues of Egypt, parting of the Red Sea were likely fabrications or exaggerations, some of which I covered in my Fallacy of Biblical Stories series.

 

[Daisy]

Good!

Absolutely it is!