DeSantis bans homeless from sleeping on public property

[Diomedes]

What is the point of parks if we allow this:

View attachment 67499958

Do you want your kids playing in that park? Of course you don't. However, a lot of people seem to be fine with parks for inner city kids being trashed.

Would you rather have them in your backyard? I assume not. The reality is...if they are not on public property...they're on private property.

 

[Diomedes]

You think that the Homeless have jobs?

You think this guy is waking up to go to Microsoft?

View attachment 67500058

I doubt it...but for all I know...he may have been working at some place like that when an identity thief cleaned out his bank account.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Would you rather have them in your backyard? I assume not. The reality is...if they are not on public property...they're on private property.

Not true. I would rather them be in a homeless shelter. In any event, there is no point in having parks if we allow them to be transformed into landfills.

 

[Bodi]

I doubt it...but for all I know...he may have been working at some place like that when an identity thief cleaned out his bank account.

Or he could be James Bond under cover during a mission and the Western World is now in jeopardy!!

 

[Felis Leo]

That means, the rest can't afford to live in a house, and that's still a problem.

What we need is a universal income and healthcare, so that everyone can have a roof, food, and healthcare despite not being able to afford it. Even if they only work part time, or not at all. It should just be worked into the equation.

Some people just can't survive without help. Period. It doesn't mean everyone will give up and live off the dole either, plenty of studies show those who can work will, and those who can't won't regardless of a small stipend to live with the bare necessities.

I don't know why humans are so reluctant to help one another out, we should act communal and not competitive, it would serve our species better. IMO.

*Republicans don't know how to help others, they're individualists, and disregard them as lazy, no good, and hope they disappear, just like their Jesus says to.

We should approach it like Finland is:

In Finland, the number of homeless people has fallen sharply. The reason: The country applies the “Housing First” concept. Those affected by homelessness receive a small apartment and counselling – without any preconditions. 4 out of 5 people affected thus make their way back into a stable life.

Since the 1980s, Finnish governments had been trying to reduce homelessness. Short-term shelters were built. However, long-term homeless people were still left out. There were too few emergency shelters and many affected people did not manage to get out of homelessness: They couldn’t find jobs – without a housing address. And without any job, they couldn’t find a flat. It was a vicious circle. Furthermore, they had problems applying for social benefits. All in all, homeless people found themselves trapped.

But in 2008 the Finnish government introduced a new policy for the homeless: It started implementing the “Housing First” concept. Since then the number of people affected has fallen sharply.


And the country is successful: It is the only EU-country where the number of homeless people is declining.

Finland ends homelessness and provides shelter for all in need - scoop.me

In Finland, the number of homeless people has fallen sharply. Why? The country applies the "Housing First" concept agains homelessness.

thebetter.news

I would whole-heartedly support a Finnish-style "Housing First" policy in the United States at the Federal, State and Local levels. If this could be implemented, I believe that anti-vagrancy laws should be enforced with exactitude. No one should be allowed to lay about in filth on the streets and blight our towns and cities.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

So they're supposed to lie awake all night?

 

[Ginger Ale]

I would whole-heartedly support a Finnish-style "Housing First" policy in the United States at the Federal, State and Local levels. If this could be implemented, I believe that anti-vagrancy laws should be enforced with exactitude. No one should be allowed to lay about in filth on the streets and blight our towns and cities.

Deal! I think that's totally fair, and I would say one would only lay around in filth on the streets if they're depressed and out of options. So, it's a win, win.

 

[weaver2]

The root causes are often addiction or mental illness. Mental illness needs to be treated with lunatic asylums and addicts don’t change until they’ve hit bottom so frequent arrests are necessary to force them to change

Politics and greed in the mid 1960s and early 1970s created the homless situation by closing what you call lunatic asylums and promising tht the money saved from closing them would be used to develop services at group homes. The savings were never fully applied to the group home idea and eventually the few that were developed closed and the residents became homeless and the jails picked up those that broke laws.
https://calmatters.org/commentary/2...ly ill,liberty concerns over forced treatment.

While the above link is a descriptions of the closing of mental institutions in California it is representative of what happened in most states. I remember very well the closing of the vast Victorian mental illness complex in Bangor, Maine. It happened later than in most other states and published evidence existed that it created a large body of homeless people that were in need of treatment, but they went ahead and closed it anyway, with the expected results.

Ignoring the mental illness caused by war and neurogenic chemicals of war in returning veterans has added to the homeless population. However refusing services has cut government spending.

The drug problem in Maine and other rural states with high unemployment was largely thanks to the Sackler family.

So now most states have a serious homeless and mental health problem. It will require billions from both federal and state governments to correct a problem created by private interests making billions by ending services or selling drugs. The rich get richer and the poor get homelessness and untreated mental illness.

Is this a great country or what?

 

[Jason Warfield]

Don't like DeSantis, but this makes sense to me. Having said that...

Who's going to pay for it? I believe they use collection taxes and not income taxes. Will sales taxes go up? Will corporate taxes go up? Will they apply for federal aid for the rest of the nation to help the bill?

And also, how do other conservatives feel about it? I ask because when liberals try for plans like this, we get called socialists, communists, just kick them down the road, etc.

 

[weaver2]

Don't like DeSantis, but this makes sense to me. Having said that...

Who's going to pay for it? I believe they use collection taxes and not income taxes. Will sales taxes go up? Will corporate taxes go up? Will they apply for federal aid for the rest of the nation to help the bill?

And also, how do other conservatives feel about it? I ask because when liberals try for plans like this, we get called socialists, communists, just kick them down the road, etc.

Several cities have tried the Housing First type of program and found it relatively inexpensive to run as compared to the expense of ignoring the homeless problems until they become costly medical, criminal, health, snitation and incarcerations problems. One city whose name I've forgotten and consequently have no link also added counseling services that assisted tenents in getting to appoitments, taking medication regularily, getting along with others found that the cost of counseling was saving the city more than it had been spending in dealing with unmedicated homeless.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Politics and greed in the mid 1960s and early 1970s created the homless situation by closing what you call lunatic asylums and promising tht the money saved from closing them would be used to develop services at group homes. The savings were never fully applied to the group home idea and eventually the few that were developed closed and the residents became homeless and the jails picked up those that broke laws.
https://calmatters.org/commentary/2019/03/hard-truths-about-deinstitutionalization-then-and-now/#:~:text=this state's history.-,The first was the de-institutionalization of the mentally ill,liberty concerns over forced treatment.

While the above link is a descriptions of the closing of mental institutions in California it is representative of what happened in most states. I remember very well the closing of the vast Victorian mental illness complex in Bangor, Maine. It happened later than in most other states and published evidence existed that it created a large body of homeless people that were in need of treatment, but they went ahead and closed it anyway, with the expected results.

Ignoring the mental illness caused by war and neurogenic chemicals of war in returning veterans has added to the homeless population. However refusing services has cut government spending.

The drug problem in Maine and other rural states with high unemployment was largely thanks to the Sackler family.

So now most states have a serious homeless and mental health problem. It will require billions from both federal and state governments to correct a problem created by private interests making billions by ending services or selling drugs. The rich get richer and the poor get homelessness and untreated mental illness.

Is this a great country or what?

The sacklers aren’t the only ones to blame. They certainly bear a large share of blame, but let’s remember that governments and medical institutions pushed painkillers on the public because it is cheaper and easier to give people medicine then make them change lifestyles. Countries that don’t allow drug ads and Have single payer care like Canada had opioids penetrate their market too

 

[weaver2]

The sacklers aren’t the only ones to blame. They certainly bear a large share of blame, but let’s remember that governments and medical institutions pushed painkillers on the public because it is cheaper and easier to give people medicine then make them change lifestyles. Countries that don’t allow drug ads and Have single payer care like Canada had opioids penetrate their market too

Interesting; the Cato Insitute also says the government caused the opioid crisis


Overdosing on Regulation:How Government Caused the Opioid Epidemic
Opioid overdose deaths have risen dramati cally in the United States over the past two decades. The standard explanation blames expanded prescribing and adver tising of opioids beginning in the 1990s.

We instead suggest that the opioid epidemic has resulted from too many restrictions on prescribing, not too few. Rather than decreasing opioid overdose deaths, restrictions push users from prescription opioids toward diverted or illicit opioids, which increases the risk of overdose because consumers cannot easily assess drug potency or quality in underground markets. The implication of this “more restrictions, more deaths” explanation is that the United States should scale back restrictions on opioid prescribing, perhaps to the point of legalization.

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa_864.pdf

Cato Institute:Libertarian think tank founded and supported by Ed Crane, Murray Rothbrd and Charles Koch of Koch Industries.

Alec designs law to give big business ‘complete immunity for bad acts’
Opioid manufacturers and other major corporations are pushing legislation to strip away state laws that have been used to sue the pharmaceutical industry for hundreds of millions of dollars over the worst drug epidemic in US history.

The influential rightwing pressure group the American Legislative Exchange Council (Alec: founded by Charles Koch), which is funded by large US companies, is behind model legislation to greatly restrict lawsuits under state public nuisance laws which are widely used to hold big business to account.

The model legislation was unveiled by Alec’s civil justice taskforce at the organisation’s national meeting in December 2020 where big pharma and other corporate interests were well represented..

“This (Alec's proposed legislation) essentially gives manufacturers and distributors of dangerous products, such as opioids, a free pass to act with reckless disregard to the public safety”

Secretive US rightwing group Alec designs law to give big business ‘complete immunity for bad acts’

Group wrote model legislation to restrict lawsuits under public nuisance laws used to hold opioid makers and others to account

www.theguardian.com

So.... two thoughts come to mind here: if there are too many restrictions on prescribing legal and quality regulated opioids so that addicts are over-dosing and dying from illegal and unregulated drugs how come Purdue Pharma made billions in profits for the Sackler family from the sale of OxyContin?
And if the drugs that are killing people do not come from American drug corporations how come they are the ones being sued?


I think ALEC, Koch and the Cato Institute are not particularly interested in integrity or capitalism.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Imagine that. No loitering in a park.

 

[Along Came Jones]

Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money

Where will the sustaining financial support come from?

The legislation, which takes effect on Oct. 1, requires local governments to designate a public space for camping or sleeping if shelter spaces are full. Local governments must also provide security, behavioral health services and bathrooms with running water, but Tallahassee is not sending additional money, so local governments can fulfill that mandate.

New Florida law on where homeless people can sleep could be costly for local governments

 

[Rexedgar]

The respite from hearing/seeing DeSantis in every news cycle has been refreshing….

 

[AZRWinger]

Allowing local councils to operate camping grounds would be good policy, except that a state law forbidding homeless to camp on any other public property creates a huge NIMBY problem. Suppose it's just one local government district, then they'd have to harbor every homeless person in the state.

The state will be working with local governments to set up the camps.

The state Department of Children and Families would oversee local governments that set up designated areas for the homeless to camp for up to a year under the new law, which takes effect Oct. 1. Anyone using those encampments would be prohibited from using alcohol or illegal drugs, with sanitation and security to be provided.
The encampments would be created if local homeless shelters reach maximum capacity, according a news release from the governor’s office.

Also government has no right to forbid a person to drink alcohol in the privacy of their own tent. There should be no conditions at all on what local government has to enforce, though requiring them to provide sanitation, trash removal and police presence does make sense.

State and local governments routinely restrict or ban alcohol from public spaces including campgrounds. Setting up a tent on public property doesn't grant an exception.

The Florida law offers a choice. You'll have to provide your own housing to drink or do drugs in. At the same time it clears the parks and sidewalks of drug infested encampments. Win/win

 

[American]

Florida homeless to be banned from sleeping in public spaces under DeSantis-backed law

Florida’s homeless will be banned from sleeping in public spaces such as sidewalks and parks under a law signed by Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis.

apnews.com

I guess he wants them on private property.

Every liberal needs to private housing for illegals, especially MS13.

 

[American]

The respite from hearing/seeing DeSantis in every news cycle has been refreshing….

I miss him being in the news cycle. I know liberals to get a daily dose of him.

 

[PNW Guy]

To a time when the insane got the help they needed in state hospitals? Yeah I do

You can’t fix these people without substantial coercive measures, if they could live in a free society successfully they wouldn’t be on the street to start with

This is a non-sequitur. The only person engaging in ignorance are those who support allowing vagrancy

This is what you'd gladly have us go back to no doubt. No thanks.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Florida homeless to be banned from sleeping in public spaces under DeSantis-backed law

Florida’s homeless will be banned from sleeping in public spaces such as sidewalks and parks under a law signed by Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis.

apnews.com

I guess he wants them on private property.

One day in the not too distant future Gov. High Heals will wake up to discover himself a victim of his own bigotry and intolerance, and he won't like it.

No one except his collar and leash wielding, butt plugging wife will care.

 

[PNW Guy]

I know, let's lock up all homeless and pay slave wages! The prison industrial complex needs workers to exploit so it's a win win win! Criminalize homelessness for the good of the corporate bottom line!

Everyone wins! Sounds perfect for the GOP platform right?

 

[LouC]

Florida homeless to be banned from sleeping in public spaces under DeSantis-backed law

Florida’s homeless will be banned from sleeping in public spaces such as sidewalks and parks under a law signed by Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis.

apnews.com

I guess he wants them on private property.

From the gist of it from your linked article I don't immediately see any issue with this initiative. I don't see this really pushing the homeless onto private properties. From what is given in the article this sounds like it could be one of the best pieces of legislation that Gov. DeSantis has backed.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

You're an American and can enjoy our public spaces until you need any help, then you're an eyesore, and must go away, far far away!!!

"Until you need help"
Meaning... until the laziness, unwillingness, debauchery and addictions that THEY put first in their life eventually take them to a place where they have nothing left.
And then they want to be able to scatter across public lands like trash, urinate and defecate on open ground where ever they want - and expect no one should bother them.
That is absurd. Productive people deserve the right to be able to travel safely around their city, enjoy the city they built and maintain without having to deal with the crime, filth and unsightliness of people who refuse to do anything but lay around in stupor.

Heartless? No. But that doesn't mean that they should be able to pollute and ruin public property across the country either,

 

[BlueTex]

From the gist of it from your linked article I don't immediately see any issue with this initiative. I don't see this really pushing the homeless onto private properties. From what is given in the article this sounds like it could be one of the best pieces of legislation that Gov. DeSantis has backed.

It's an attempt to set up a conflict among the circuit courts... Specifically, Martin v. Boise which covers all the states in the 9th circuit. This would then take it to SCOTUS. In 2019, SCOTUS declined to hear Martin v. Boise which is why were so many posters talking about the homeless on the west coast.

In Martin v. Boise, the 9th said this...

The panel affirmed in part and reversed in part the district court’s summary judgment in an action brought by six current or formerly homeless City of Boise residents who alleged that their citations under the City’s Camping and Disorderly Conduct Ordinances violated the Eighth Amendment’s prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment

Martin v. Boise - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Fletch]

So, they can't sleep on public property.

They can't sleep on private property.

There are only about 1/3 of the shelter beds necessary (depending on the place).

And if they were capable of getting jobs with their mental illnesses and addictions, they already would have.

So what do you suggest they do?

What would Jesus do with them?

Maybe they can sleep in the manger.

You can invite them to sleep in your house. If every sanctimon8ous, self-righteous leftist took in one homeless person, there would be no homeless.