Democrats to ask for 10 years of presidential tax returns in new bill (1 Viewer)

[Cardinal]

While nobody has any expectation that such a bill could pass the Senate in its current makeup, the onus will be on Republicans to argue against the rationale for such a bill. Their argument for why Trump shouldn't release their tax returns, "It's none of your business," wasn't especially compelling when it was first made in 2016. However, in light of the President's insistence on repeating Russian propaganda, taking the side of Putin over our own intelligence community, and the revelation that he lied throughout 2016 about his Moscow Tower deal all the while denying he had any business dealings with Russia, revealing a candidate's tax returns demonstrates the importance of showing the American people that he isn't financially compromised in any way that would lead to him act in the best interests of a foreign government (as just one example).

CNN)Democrats are making presidential tax returns a focal point in one of their first pieces of legislation, an effort to build the case to the American people that time is up on President Donald Trump keeping his own tax returns from the public, shutting what could be a window into his personal wealth.

According to two sources familiar with the discussions, Democrats will include a provision in their new bill that would require presidential nominees to disclose 10 years of tax returns shortly after they become the nominee. Vice presidents would also be required to disclose a decade of returns. The tax returns would then be posted on the Federal Election Commission's website for public viewing.

The 10-year requirement is new marker. At the end of last year, Democrats had disclosed H.R. 1 would require presidential candidates to release just three years of tax returns, but a source familiar with the process said that after reviewing precedent, the marker was moved to a decade of returns.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/politics/trump-tax-returns-democrats/index.html

 

[tres borrachos]

While nobody has any expectation that such a bill could pass the Senate in its current makeup, the onus will be on Republicans to argue against the rationale for such a bill. Their argument for why Trump shouldn't release their tax returns, "It's none of your business," wasn't especially compelling when it was first made in 2016. However, in light of the President's insistence on repeating Russian propaganda, taking the side of Putin over our own intelligence community, and the revelation that he lied throughout 2016 about his Moscow Tower deal all the while denying he had any business dealings with Russia, revealing a candidate's tax returns demonstrates the importance of showing the American people that he isn't financially compromised in any way that would lead to him act in the best interests of a foreign government (as just one example).



https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/politics/trump-tax-returns-democrats/index.html

I love it.

 

[Chomsky]

While nobody has any expectation that such a bill could pass the Senate in its current makeup, the onus will be on Republicans to argue against the rationale for such a bill. Their argument for why Trump shouldn't release their tax returns, "It's none of your business," wasn't especially compelling when it was first made in 2016. However, in light of the President's insistence on repeating Russian propaganda, taking the side of Putin over our own intelligence community, and the revelation that he lied throughout 2016 about his Moscow Tower deal all the while denying he had any business dealings with Russia, revealing a candidate's tax returns demonstrates the importance of showing the American people that he isn't financially compromised in any way that would lead to him act in the best interests of a foreign government (as just one example).



https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/politics/trump-tax-returns-democrats/index.html

They'll also be going for Trump's tax returns specifically, via one of the committees.

 

[Samhain]

Going to be a fun 2 years of retard.

 

[Acadia]

Did Republicans ever try using extortion to get Obama's transcripts?

 

[Common Sense 1]

Just a big democratic game!! :sword: You know what they will be doing for the next two years.
They want Trumps tax returns while not funding border security? Pitiful conduct.

 

[Cardinal]

They'll also be going for Trump's tax returns specifically, via one of the committees.

Yep, that's definitely happening. More civics/legal lessons we'll all be learning in the coming months: what are the tools that Trump can deploy in order to fight the House's attempts to subpoena his returns? I guess we'll all find out as it unfolds.

 

[Chillfolks]

The bill should also cover anyone running for Congress disclose their tax returns, because it does not I would vote No if given the opportunity

 

[Samhain]

Yep, that's definitely happening. More civics/legal lessons we'll all be learning in the coming months: what are the tools that Trump can deploy in order to fight the House's attempts to subpoena his returns? I guess we'll all find out as it unfolds.

Can they subpoena his DNA? Serious question. What can/can't Congress subpoena?

 

[Lutherf]

While nobody has any expectation that such a bill could pass the Senate in its current makeup, the onus will be on Republicans to argue against the rationale for such a bill. Their argument for why Trump shouldn't release their tax returns, "It's none of your business," wasn't especially compelling when it was first made in 2016. However, in light of the President's insistence on repeating Russian propaganda, taking the side of Putin over our own intelligence community, and the revelation that he lied throughout 2016 about his Moscow Tower deal all the while denying he had any business dealings with Russia, revealing a candidate's tax returns demonstrates the importance of showing the American people that he isn't financially compromised in any way that would lead to him act in the best interests of a foreign government (as just one example).



https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/politics/trump-tax-returns-democrats/index.html

I'm pretty sure they'll have to amend the Constitution to do that. I mean, they could probably pass the bill but I don't see how it is possibly Constitutional.

 

[Lursa]

Good. Another distraction to frustrate Rump and push his buttons. Then he can dig his own hole deeper and deeper heading into 2020.

Let's face it, little will get done this next 2 yrs, unless Rump ****s up national security so much with his foreign policy that we see terror attacks here (which I dont dismiss), so Dems might as well spend their time making sure he has no chance of re-election.

After all, Republicans cant complain, they intentionally prevented Obama from doing anything. Maybe after this, Americans will learn to play together more effectively.

 

[Cardinal]

The bill should also cover anyone running for Congress disclose their tax returns, because it does not I would vote No if given the opportunity

Typically, laws are made in order to respond to things that are problems rather than things that aren't, just as the body's immune system will create an immunity to a flu it has encountered rather than a flu that it hasn't. While I have no problems with the principle of Congressional candidates being required to show their tax returns, it is the particular case of a President appearing to be beholden to foreign governments that has prompted the House's upcoming bill.

 

[OlNate]

Did Republicans ever try using extortion to get Obama's transcripts?

Did you type that with a straight face? Cuz if you did, I'm not sure how, after all the birther nonsense.

 

[Chomsky]

Yep, that's definitely happening. More civics/legal lessons we'll all be learning in the coming months: what are the tools that Trump can deploy in order to fight the House's attempts to subpoena his returns?

He can simply refuse to honor the subpoena. And that will be pretty effective. It's an extremely long and arduous process for the House to enforce a subpoena. It can take years. For this reason, I suspect Trump and his administrative cabal will simply lawyer-up and refuse to cooperate with most everything the Dems request. Then, just like impeachment, it will all come down to politics.

 

[Cardinal]

I'm pretty sure they'll have to amend the Constitution to do that. I mean, they could probably pass the bill but I don't see how it is possibly Constitutional.

No. Npr describes how we can expect to see the coming fight:


1. For the party in control of the House or Senate, making the request is easy. It would come from the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee (the House panel that writes tax law), Senate Finance Committee or Joint Committee on Taxation. Democrats have been badgering the Republican chairs of those panels to act since February 2017 without success.

2. Once a request is made, no floor action is necessary. The request would go to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, who oversees the IRS — not to the taxpayer in the Oval Office, who would officially be out of the loop. Yin said the 1924 law "gave the tax committees the unqualified right to request the tax returns of any taxpayer."

3. What would happen next is uncharted territory. Based on recent events, Trump might deploy Justice Department lawyers, and perhaps private lawyers, to fight the request in court. The process might resemble the not-infrequent legal battles over congressional subpoenas for executive branch documents. But the committee access provision has never been before a federal judge.

4. Were Congress to get access to Trump's returns, it would be easy for lawmakers to disclose the information, despite various privacy protections that exist for taxpayers. The chair or committee with Trump's tax returns could submit them to the full House or Senate if there's a legitimate legislative purpose. At that point, the returns would very likely quickly become available for the public to see on the Internet.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/11/6566...-demand-and-get-trumps-tax-returns-here-s-how

 

[Chomsky]

Good. Another distraction to frustrate Rump and push his buttons. Then he can dig his own hole deeper and deeper heading into 2020.

Let's face it, little will get done this next 2 yrs, unless Rump ****s up national security so much with his foreign policy that we see terror attacks here (which I dont dismiss), so Dems might as well spend their time making sure he has no chance of re-election.

After all, Republicans cant complain, they intentionally prevented Obama from doing anything. Maybe after this, Americans will learn to play together more effectively.

In this case getting nothing done, is not such a bad thing. The Dems were swept into office specifically to stop Trump. The first act in turning around a problem force, is to stop it. 2020 can then be the opportunity to move it and turn it around.

 

[Cardinal]

He can simply refuse to honor the subpoena. And that will be pretty effective. It's an extremely long and arduous process for the House to enforce a subpoena. It can take years. For this reason, I suspect Trump and his administrative cabal will simply lawyer-up and refuse to cooperate with most everything the Dems request. Then, just like impeachment, it will all come down to politics.

I think that the case would arrive before a judge sooner than that, and it would be resolved perhaps within the first half of the year...maybe sooner. A lot of it would depend on how aggressively the House would want to move on this.

Considering that there are serious concerns that Trump is specifically acting in the best interests of a foreign government, the more aggressively the House moves the better.

 

[Anthony60]

While nobody has any expectation that such a bill could pass the Senate in its current makeup, the onus will be on Republicans to argue against the rationale for such a bill. Their argument for why Trump shouldn't release their tax returns, "It's none of your business," wasn't especially compelling when it was first made in 2016. However, in light of the President's insistence on repeating Russian propaganda, taking the side of Putin over our own intelligence community, and the revelation that he lied throughout 2016 about his Moscow Tower deal all the while denying he had any business dealings with Russia, revealing a candidate's tax returns demonstrates the importance of showing the American people that he isn't financially compromised in any way that would lead to him act in the best interests of a foreign government (as just one example).



https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/politics/trump-tax-returns-democrats/index.html

I wonder if Congress would be willing to include themselves in this law.

 

[Cardinal]

I wonder if Congress would be willing to include themselves in this law.

See post 12.

 

[Chomsky]

No. Npr describes how we can expect to see the coming fight:


1. For the party in control of the House or Senate, making the request is easy. It would come from the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee (the House panel that writes tax law), Senate Finance Committee or Joint Committee on Taxation. Democrats have been badgering the Republican chairs of those panels to act since February 2017 without success.

2. Once a request is made, no floor action is necessary. The request would go to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, who oversees the IRS — not to the taxpayer in the Oval Office, who would officially be out of the loop. Yin said the 1924 law "gave the tax committees the unqualified right to request the tax returns of any taxpayer."

3. What would happen next is uncharted territory. Based on recent events, Trump might deploy Justice Department lawyers, and perhaps private lawyers, to fight the request in court. The process might resemble the not-infrequent legal battles over congressional subpoenas for executive branch documents. But the committee access provision has never been before a federal judge.

4. Were Congress to get access to Trump's returns, it would be easy for lawmakers to disclose the information, despite various privacy protections that exist for taxpayers. The chair or committee with Trump's tax returns could submit them to the full House or Senate if there's a legitimate legislative purpose. At that point, the returns would very likely quickly become available for the public to see on the Internet.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/11/6566...-demand-and-get-trumps-tax-returns-here-s-how

Yes, that's the path for getting Trump's returns specifically. Thank you for providing it.

But I suspect Luther was referring to promulgating legislation requiring all future candidates to bare their tax returns. It's possible there may be Constitutional concerns with this. I really don't know.

 

[Lutherf]

No. Npr describes how we can expect to see the coming fight:


1. For the party in control of the House or Senate, making the request is easy. It would come from the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee (the House panel that writes tax law), Senate Finance Committee or Joint Committee on Taxation. Democrats have been badgering the Republican chairs of those panels to act since February 2017 without success.

2. Once a request is made, no floor action is necessary. The request would go to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, who oversees the IRS — not to the taxpayer in the Oval Office, who would officially be out of the loop. Yin said the 1924 law "gave the tax committees the unqualified right to request the tax returns of any taxpayer."

3. What would happen next is uncharted territory. Based on recent events, Trump might deploy Justice Department lawyers, and perhaps private lawyers, to fight the request in court. The process might resemble the not-infrequent legal battles over congressional subpoenas for executive branch documents. But the committee access provision has never been before a federal judge.

4. Were Congress to get access to Trump's returns, it would be easy for lawmakers to disclose the information, despite various privacy protections that exist for taxpayers. The chair or committee with Trump's tax returns could submit them to the full House or Senate if there's a legitimate legislative purpose. At that point, the returns would very likely quickly become available for the public to see on the Internet.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/11/6566...-demand-and-get-trumps-tax-returns-here-s-how

If the Democrats do this there will be hell to pay. While half of you guys will fell like you just won the lottery the rest of the country will understand the ploy as a nuke on the Constitution. They'll see it as an egregious violation of personal privacy because if Congress can do that to Trump they can do it to anybody for any reason. It will be a bright and shining example of how government tends to work for their own ends without regard for how their actions effect the fundamental principles of freedom that people expect their government to protect.

If the Democrats do this it will generally be seen as an act of political hatred directed at Trump done expressly for political purposes in in direct opposition to all the principles of individual liberty this nation was founded on. The sad part is, I kind of doubt that many Democrats will feel like that until it happens to them some day.

 

[Rexedgar]

In this case getting nothing done, is not such a bad thing. The Dems were swept into office specifically to stop Trump. The first act in turning around a problem force, is to stop it. 2020 can then be the opportunity to move it and turn it around.

Post reminds me of a naval analogy and an aircraft carrier........

 

[Chomsky]

I think that the case would arrive before a judge sooner than that, and it would be resolved perhaps within the first half of the year...maybe sooner. A lot of it would depend on how aggressively the House would want to move on this.

Considering that there are serious concerns that Trump is specifically acting in the best interests of a foreign government, the more aggressively the House moves the better.

Perhaps. But I do expect Trump to refuse, both en total and writ large.

 

[jonny5]

While nobody has any expectation that such a bill could pass the Senate in its current makeup, the onus will be on Republicans to argue against the rationale for such a bill. Their argument for why Trump shouldn't release their tax returns, "It's none of your business," wasn't especially compelling when it was first made in 2016. However, in light of the President's insistence on repeating Russian propaganda, taking the side of Putin over our own intelligence community, and the revelation that he lied throughout 2016 about his Moscow Tower deal all the while denying he had any business dealings with Russia, revealing a candidate's tax returns demonstrates the importance of showing the American people that he isn't financially compromised in any way that would lead to him act in the best interests of a foreign government (as just one example).



https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/politics/trump-tax-returns-democrats/index.html

The rationale is that someones tax returns are none of the public's business unless that person decides its in their interest to give out that information. I cant remember ever caring about this.

 

[jonny5]

Typically, laws are made in order to respond to things that are problems rather than things that aren't, just as the body's immune system will create an immunity to a flu it has encountered rather than a flu that it hasn't. While I have no problems with the principle of Congressional candidates being required to show their tax returns, it is the particular case of a President appearing to be beholden to foreign governments that has prompted the House's upcoming bill.

Concerns about one particular persons appearance is politics, not actual problems. The proper forum for that is campaigns, not laws.