Democrats should forget Joe Manchin

[MAGAnificent]

We need him primaried out. Let him win as an independent or republican. He's actively working against his own party.

He is working for his constituents. How novel in the democrat party.

 

[j brown's body]

The right-wingers' claim, on the one hand, that Manchin saved the Democrats and on the other, claim the Dems are doomed.

Make up your minds.

 

[Rawley]

Right. Manchin would no more claim to being a flip-flopper than he would take credit for stopping a bill that could arrest inflation because of....inflation.

He's a savvy politician but not a particularly bright man.

Well, he's a two term US Senator and you're ranting at the ether on an Internet chat board.

 

[Jay59]

And yet polling continues to shift towards the democrats.

That's the reason they still have a shot to save 50/50 in the Senate. The House is just gone.

The right-wingers' claim, on the one hand, that Manchin saved the Democrats and on the other, claim the Dems are doomed.

Make up your minds.

Those are not incompatible. It's just a claim that you will lose but could have lost worse.

 

[j brown's body]

That's the reason they still have a shot to save 50/50 in the Senate. The House is just gone.


Those are not incompatible. It's just a claim that you will lose but could have lost worse.

The problem with the analysis that Manchin is helping the party by keeping it in the center (while fighting popular policies like taxing the rich for a program that could help stem inflation, of all things) is that history doesn't bear it out. In the 2010 election, blue dog Democrats who didn't support the ACC, or whose support was tepid, got slammed.

 

[btthegreat]

He is working for his constituents. How novel in the democrat party.

The question is, is the quality of his 'work' good enough to keep Democrat voters happy with him. He's the guy who claims to be a Democrat and share the values of a Democrat. Democrat voters of his state may have to decide that for themselves.

 

[MAGAnificent]

The question is, is the quality of his 'work' good enough to keep Democrat voters happy with him. He's the guy who claims to be a Democrat and share the values of a Democrat. Democrat voters of his state may have to decide that for themselves.

You are far too obsessed with the party label. What's important is whether he is good enough to keep his constituents happy. And he is what he claims to be. He is a democrat in the tradictional sense of what democrats once stood for. He is not with the current fringe left wing of the democrat party. He is more a democrat along the lines of the late John F Kennedy. He owes the extremists in the modern democrat party nothing.

 

[Jay59]

The problem with the analysis that Manchin is helping the party by keeping it in the center (while fighting popular policies like taxing the rich for a program that could help stem inflation, of all things) is that history doesn't bear it out. In the 2010 election, blue dog Democrats who didn't support the ACC, or whose support was tepid, got slammed.

That's a good thing, not a problem.

You are actively trying to lose touch with the voters. When Manchin or Sinema slow you down, it helps.

ACC is a continuing curse on both the party and the country. Thank goodness Trump was able to pull the fangs.

 

[Craig234]

In the 2010 election, blue dog Democrats who didn't support the ACC, or whose support was tepid, got slammed.

“Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time.” — Harry S. Truman​

 

[btthegreat]

You are far too obsessed with the party label. What's important is whether he is good enough to keep his constituents happy. And he is what he claims to be. He is a democrat in the tradictional sense of what democrats once stood for. He is not with the current fringe left wing of the democrat party. He is more a democrat along the lines of the late John F Kennedy. He owes the extremists in the modern democrat party nothing.

No he is not a 'democrat' in the traditional sense. You are not typing to a 30 year Dem here. I remember the 1968 campaign . He is, what we used to call a 'southern boll weevil' or Blue Dog Democrat a lot closer alligned to Senator Hollings or , Lloyd Bentson than JFK, except we now have issues that neither nor Wallace JFK ever envisioned.

Democrats of West Virginia have every right to decide what their party stands for, and what kind of values they expect their candidates to reflect and hold their politicians to that standard. If he is primaried, the deciders will be fellow Democrats from West Virginia, not Democrats from New York, precisely what he claimed to be when he ran for office. If he no longer feels comfortable with that label, or is worried that the party in West Virginia has moved to far to the left, or that he will lose to someone further left, he can declare himself to be an independent, change his affiliation and run as an independent. Then he no longer has to represent Democrat values or beliefs, and he no longer gets the patronage of the party. Somebody else does.

I think Democrat voters from West Virginia deserve to have two viable options, and competing visions to pick from. Maybe they will pick Manchin anyway.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Hate to break it to you, but the majority of America view Manchin as the only real Democrat left in the Congress. We hardly even recognize the rest of the party.

"We" being the Republicans who have moved at least as far right, as the Dems have moved left?

 

[The Stars Tremble]

“Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time.” — Harry S. Truman​

Eternal verities in politics, aren't worth a bumper sticker.

Given the choice between a Senate which will block any court appointments by a Democrat President, and a Senate which will do a few Democrat things but be blocked on climate change or big spending, it's pretty clear that voters like a DINO.

And you should too. Democrats can never win purple states by running deep blue candidates. In fact, leftist Democrats should be trusting the other primary voters and using their vote in Republican primaries instead. False flag the bastards.

 

[Rawley]

"We" being the Republicans who have moved at least as far right, as the Dems have moved left?

No, the Repubs haven't.

It's now mainstream in the Dem party to propose.

Abolishing the filibuster,
Abolishing/packing/impeaching the Supreme Court
Abolish the EC
Abolish bail
Abolish jails
Defund the police
Spend another trillion dollars while inflation is at historic levels

Nothing close to that radicalism in the Repub party

 

[The AntiDonald]

So, hand the seat to the GOP.

Great political strategy there.

Harris isn’t a guaranteed vote on anything. ..she doesn’t vote unless a tie.

Democrats have 48 currently and 2 independents that caucus with them. GOP has 50.

Without Manchin, democrats lose majority in the house as that seat will go GOP.

The answer is to win two or three more seats this November and leave Manchin in the dust. This is looking more possible as we get closer.

 

[MAGAnificent]

No he is not a 'democrat' in the traditional sense. You are not typing to a 30 year Dem here. I remember the 1968 campaign . He is, what we used to call a 'southern boll weevil' or Blue Dog Democrat a lot closer alligned to Senator Hollings or , Lloyd Bentson than JFK, except we now have issues that neither nor Wallace JFK ever envisioned.

A southern boll weevil from Boston? I don't think so. Closer ro Llyoyd Bentson, maybe, certainly not Ernest Hollings. JFK was touted by the democrats as a party icon as late as1990. That only stopped after it was pointed out that by todays standards JFK was a conservative. Since then, the democrat party has lurched to the far left.

I think Democrat voters from West Virginia deserve to have two viable options, and competing visions to pick from. Maybe they will pick Manchin anyway.

At some point you democrats will just have to accept that Manchin is a Senator of a deep red state and honors his constitutents over the democrat party.

 

[Rogue Valley]

If it's not Joe "Maserati" Manchin stabbing Dems in the back, it's Krysten "Pharma Queen" Sinema.

There are too many Republicans with a D behind their name.

 

[btthegreat]

A southern boll weevil from Boston? I don't think so. Closer ro Llyoyd Bentson, maybe, certainly not Ernest Hollings. JFK was touted by the democrats as a party icon as late as1990. That only stopped after it was pointed out that by todays standards JFK was a conservative. Since then, the democrat party has lurched to the far left.

At some point you democrats will just have to accept that Manchin is a Senator of a deep red state and honors his constitutents over the democrat party.

What the hell are you talking about? Manchin has never lived in Boston and was not born or raised anywhere else but West Virginia.

I won't provide you a long history lesson on secessionist sentiment in the same three regions (Northwest, Southwest, Shenandoah Valley) that later became West Virginia, but its actually kind of interesting. As many of its young men joined the confederacy, as the union

"In January 1861 the first secession flag in West Virginia flew above the courthouse in Philippi, Barbour County. Described as a "palmetto" flag, it was captured in the Battle of Philippi on June 3, 1861. A secession flag also flew above the courthouse in neighboring Tucker County, and another was raised in Guyandotte, Cabell County, which was termed a "secession hole" by Union newspapers in Wheeling, and was later burned by Union troops. On May 14, the "stars and bars" was raised above the courthouse in Logan County.
There were public meetings of "Southern Rights" supporters in at least 21 Northwestern counties. On April 26, 1861, former governor Joseph Johnson chaired such a meeting in Clarksburg. Secessionists were active in Jackson, Ritchie, Harrison, Wood, Wayne, Kanawha, Cabell, Taylor, Upshur, Marion, although these counties voted against the secession ordinance. Altogether 24 of the 50 counties in the new state voted in favor of secession. The secession counties held 40% of the population and two-thirds of the territory of the new state. Results of the May 23, 1861 vote on Virginia's secession ordinance has been estimated at 19,121 to 20,031 in favor of secession and 33,565 to 34,677 against secession.[16]


Why quibble. We can call him a blue dog, just for you! Now all the guy has to do is beat a real well funded competitive Democrat in the primary and he's good as gold. Why shouldn't he compete to call himself the Democrat Nominee from West Virginia? You act as though he was coronated by the party voters in 2010. That's not how we do things in this country.

 

[Craig234]

There are too many Republicans with a D behind their name.

This is a rare case where the typo is, that it's "two many". OK, there are some in the House, but two clear in the Senate.

 

[Rogue Valley]

This is a rare case where the typo is, that it's "two many". OK, there are some in the House, but two clear in the Senate.

In a 50/50 Senate, 2 is two too many.

 

[MAGAnificent]

What the hell are you talking about? Manchin has never lived in Boston and was not born or raised anywhere else but West Virginia.

Do try to keep up. I was talking about JFK.

 

[Craig234]

In a 50/50 Senate, 2 is two too many.

Two is too many to pass bills.

 

[btthegreat]

Do try to keep up. I was talking about JFK.

Joe Manchin has as much in common with JFK, as George Wallace and Strom Thurmond did

 

[Cardinal]

We need to take a few more seats so we can stop worrying about the coal baron.

This. Continually bitching about Manchin isn't. Going. Anywhere.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

No, the Repubs haven't.

It's now mainstream in the Dem party to propose.

Abolishing the filibuster,
Abolishing/packing/impeaching the Supreme Court
Abolish the EC
Abolish bail
Abolish jails
Defund the police
Spend another trillion dollars while inflation is at historic levels

Nothing close to that radicalism in the Repub party

The mainstream of the Dem party do not propose ANY of those things. You're looking at The Squad and mistaking them for Dem leadership.

Excepting spending trillions of dollars, which Republicans were onboard with (for infrastructure) until they saw Democrats poised to take credit for it.

 

[Rawley]

The mainstream of the Dem party do not propose ANY of those things. You're looking at The Squad and mistaking them for Dem leadership.

Excepting spending trillions of dollars, which Republicans were onboard with (for infrastructure) until they saw Democrats poised to take credit for it.

Wow. Perhaps you should start paying attention to what the people in your party are saying/proposing rather than obsessing over the bad Orangeman.