Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123***459]

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Too bad no one asks the baby, or advocates for it. I'm guessing the unborn baby might have a different vote.

The fetus does not get a vote in what the woman can do with her own body...

...any more than you do.

I know that is difficult for you to understand...but try.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

At the very least, people who abort the unborn based solely on convenience are a cut below being a decent human being. Killing the most innocent among us is just inexcusable.

Please continue with that gratuitous, hyperbolic claptrap. It does your cause more harm than good.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

The folks who actually kill other humans in aggression?

No, they're far less than human - they're filthy animals and they belong in a cage.

Their supporters aren't in that league, at least not until they cross the line and do more than think and say it's okay to kill the humans they hate.

That is how I feel about people who want to take away a woman's right to have dominion over her own body...and who support the people who want to do that.

 

[Anthony60]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

The fetus does not get a vote in what the woman can do with her own body...

...any more than you do.

I know that is difficult for you to understand...but try.

Yeah, what's the difference? Just an innocent unborn child relying on us for it's care. Mostly the mother, for sure. There's got to be a special place in hell for those who kill and support the killing of those innocent lives. Heartless doesn't even begin to scratch the surface.

 

[cpwill]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123]

Excellent. As the goal of conservatives isn't to find "reasonable" approaches to abortion law but rather to chip away at abortion until it's banned altogether, it's logical to block them at every turn.

Ah. So this is the slipper slope argument that conservatives are so wrong for using when discussing marriage?

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Yeah, what's the difference? Just an innocent unborn child relying on us for it's care. Mostly the mother, for sure. There's got to be a special place in hell for those who kill and support the killing of those innocent lives. Heartless doesn't even begin to scratch the surface.

Yeah...you are such a moral, caring person...and the people who advocate for a woman's right to have dominion over her own body are scum for whom a special place in Hell ought be reserved.

Grow up!

 

[JayDubya]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

That is how I feel about people who want to take away a woman's right to have dominion over her own body...and who support the people who want to do that.

Who are these imaginary people you want locked in prison for their opinion?

Certainly I am not among them - do what you want with and to your own body, I don't care, just don't expect me to pay for your healthcare when you mess yourself up.

None of which has anything to do with abortion, which is a contract killing.

 

[Cardinal]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123]

Ah. So this is the slipper slope argument that conservatives are so wrong for using when discussing marriage?

You yourself have expressed the goal I mentioned.

 

[Objective Voice]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Good.

The decision to abort or not to abort should be made by the pregnant woman...with, if she chooses, the advise of her doctor.

This wasn't about the woman's choice as much as it was about "viability" of the fetus (24-28 weeks). Anti-abortion advocates continue in their attempts to chip away at varying aspects of Roe -v- Wade, i.e., life of the mother and/or unborn child, hospital/abortion clinic equipage/structure, when does life begin, etc., etc. An ages old private medical practice continues to be at odds with our Constitutional and even spiritual values, towit: liberty (in this case, the right to choose what's in one's own best interest), right to privacy and free will (a woman's innate ability to make up her own damned mind).

As long as those basic fundamental human rights remain in conflict with each other, the abortion issue will be a constant battle among man.

 

[cpwill]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123]

You yourself have expressed the goal I mentioned.

Can't help but notice you didn't answer the question

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Who are these imaginary people you want locked in prison for their opinion?

Certainly I am not among them - do what you want with and to your own body, I don't care, just don't expect me to pay for your healthcare when you mess yourself up.

None of which has anything to do with abortion, which is a contract killing.

You are one of them, Jay.

You want to tell a woman that she cannot have dominion over her own body.

If a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy occurring in her own body...she should have that right.

You, nor anyone else, should have a right to tell her she must do what you say rather than what she wants to do.

Please continue to call the right to abortion a "contract killing." It is that kind of over-the-top rhetoric that wakes up the undecided people. Those of us on this side of the issue appreciate your help.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Well I do the same...and I can assure you I am a decent human being also.

So the definition of a "decent human being" is someone who thinks murdering a child in the delivery room before the head pops out is acceptable behavior.

I don't know what dictionary you use, but it contradicts every one I own.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

This wasn't about the woman's choice as much as it was about "viability" of the fetus (24-28 weeks). Anti-abortion advocates continue in their attempts to chip away at varying aspects of Roe -v- Wade, i.e., life of the mother and/or unborn child, hospital/abortion clinic equipage/structure, when does life begin, etc., etc. An ages old private medical practice continues to be at odds with our Constitutional and even spiritual values, towit: liberty (in this case, the right to choose what's in one's own best interest), right to privacy and free will (a woman's innate ability to make up her own damned mind).

As long as those basic fundamental human rights remain in conflict with each other, the abortion issue will be a constant battle among man.

Right you are, OV.

If I thought for a moment that the anti-abortion people truly wanted only to limit (reasonably) the time frame for which an abortion can be had...I would probably butt out on this issue. (I might not agree with them, but I would be willing to concede their point as an accommodation. )

But it is obvious the limits are just way-stations to a total ban on abortions...mostly occasioned by religious objections to the procedure. 20 week limit will lead to 18 week; to 15; to 10; to 5; to never.

They must be fought every step of the way.

A woman has a right to have dominion over her body on this issue.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

So the definition of a "decent human being" is someone who thinks murdering a child in the delivery room before the head pops out is acceptable behavior.

I don't know what dictionary you use, but it contradicts every one I own.

Please continue with the hyperbole, Grim. You are an invaluable asset in the war against people like you.

 

[Cardinal]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123]

Can't help but notice you didn't answer the question

That's because your question was meaningless and a non-sequitur to my post.

 

[cpwill]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123]

That's because your question was meaningless and a non-sequitur to my post.

Dodge dodge dodge

Is the slippery slope a legitimate argument or not, Cardinal?

 

[JayDubya]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

You are one of them, Jay.

You want to tell a woman that she cannot have dominion over her own body.

If a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy occurring in her own body...she should have that right.

You, nor anyone else, should have a right to tell her she must do what you say rather than what she wants to do.

Please continue to call the right to abortion a "contract killing." It is that kind of over-the-top rhetoric that wakes up the undecided people. Those of us on this side of the issue appreciate your help.

This post of yours is so delusional I don't even know where to start. You are in stark denial of reality on many of these sentences, from beginning to end.

And thank you for confirming that you are so radical that you feel like those who disagree with your opinions are animals who need to be locked up. As you are a supporter of thought crime - yet another completely despicable and indefensible position - people can put everything else you say in that context.

I suppose I could ask you to learn what words mean, of course. If I thought that would help.

 

[Cardinal]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123]

Dodge dodge dodge

Is the slippery slope a legitimate argument or not, Cardinal?

The slippery slope is not a fallacy if you specifically made it clear that the ending of abortion was the ultimate goal. Your point would only have merit if I, in the post you linked to, had expressed that people marrying their tables/dogs/sisters/whatever was the ultimate goal of legalized same sex marriage. That's why your post was meaningless.

Oh, by the way, thanks for linking to that. I thought I did pretty damn good job of crushing the use of the slippery slope in that topic.

 

[cpwill]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123]

The slippery slope is not a fallacy if you specifically made it clear that the ending of abortion was the ultimate goal.

:shrug: ending abortion is not my ultimate goal. I think the restrictions should be greater than 20 weeks, but there are instances where I think it should be allowed.

ANY compromise is going to mean people getting less than what they want, Cardinal. Your logic here isn't unique to the 20 week ban, but involves almost everything the government does. And yes, it is a slippery slope.


Now, myself, I think slippery slopes have some validity to them. But that is what you are arguing, even as you have derided it before.

 

[Anthony60]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Yeah...you are such a moral, caring person...and the people who advocate for a woman's right to have dominion over her own body are scum for whom a special place in Hell ought be reserved.

Grow up!

Yeah, hide behind that "woman's right" crap to justify snuffing out an helpless unborn baby.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Yeah, hide behind that "woman's right" crap ...

There are certain zones of privacy in the US including child rearing, marriage, contraception and legal abortions before viability.

The right to contraception and legal abortions until viability are also a part of our religious liberty.

...the First Amendment makes clear that public policy is not to be based on faith alone – in a religiously diverse, pluralistic society, favoring any one religious worldview is wrong and inherently biased. Good policy is policy that allows for all people – regardless of their religious identity – to follow their own faith and conscience when directing the course of their life. When it comes to matters of reproductive health, RCRC believes that real religious liberty protects the right of a woman to make thoughtful decisions in private consultation with her doctor, her family, and her own faith. Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual.

Religious Liberty | Religious Coalition For Reproductive Choice

 

[Objective Voice]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Right you are, OV.

If I thought for a moment that the anti-abortion people truly wanted only to limit (reasonably) the time frame for which an abortion can be had...I would probably butt out on this issue. (I might not agree with them, but I would be willing to concede their point as an accommodation. )

But it is obvious the limits are just way-stations to a total ban on abortions...mostly occasioned by religious objections to the procedure. 20 week limit will lead to 18 week; to 15; to 10; to 5; to never.

They must be fought every step of the way.

A woman has a right to have dominion over her body on this issue.

And the SCOTUS said as much. Abortion is as much about a woman's right to privacy as it is about woman's health (not to mention the safety and well-being of the unborn child well into the gestation period for fetal development). It's also an economic issue. Unfortunately, the only issue that seems to matter to those on the Right is the morality issue. As such, the Far-Right will continue to advance those fringe aspects brought out in Roe v Wade they believe will provide them in-roads to eliminating abortion completely. And at each step it will be either a morality tie-in or a medical facility tie-in of some sort. Of course, you might get an economic tie-in here or there, i.e., defunding Planned Parenthood v government shutdown, but the kicker here is the Hyde Amendment already takes care of government funded abortions. So, this current government anti-appropriations fake fetus fight is just that - a falsehood that only gains traction from those who are thinking with their hearts, not their minds.

 

[Grim17]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Please continue with the hyperbole, Grim. You are an invaluable asset in the war against people like you.

Hyperbole? That is your stated position.

I asked you several pages ago if it was ok for a woman to get an abortion when she goes into labor, and you said it was her choice.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Abortion is as much about a woman's right to privacy as it is about woman's health

That's true.

0 = 0

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

This post of yours is so delusional I don't even know where to start.

If this were a book rather than a post, that sentence would probably read, "It was a dark and stormy night."

You are in stark denial of reality on many of these sentences, from beginning to end.

No...I am not.

And thank you for confirming that you are so radical that you feel like those who disagree with your opinions are animals who need to be locked up.

Read what I wrote...and where it was written. You may be able to see that comment of yours for the mischaracterization it is. But I would not bet on it.

In any case, continue the hyperbole. It helps defeat your position.

As you are a supporter of thought crime - yet another completely despicable and indefensible position - people can put everything else you say in that context.

Once again, thanks for that. You ought really, however, learn that doing what you are doing here is almost always self-defeating. After all...some day you may be on my side during a discussion...and I wouldn't want to see you doing the damage to our position you are doing to yours here.

I suppose I could ask you to learn what words mean, of course. If I thought that would help.

I am pretty good with words. The ones I am using here seem to be pushing lots of buttons in you. I appreciate you letting me know I am succeeding in such a certain way.