Democracy V Republic

[Into the Night]

perhaps. She said it was our WW2. Do you think she will want war with China and India since they are the increasing the CO2 at 2-3 times our rate?

Perhaps, if she gets that chance.

 

[Grand Mal]

fascism and socialism are identical statist philosophies which is why our Founders made them equally illegal here. We don't debate whether HItler or Stalin were better, both were simple liberal statists.

You're babbling again, full of crap again. Purposely, probably, but that just makes the crap stink a bit worse.

 

[James972]

You're babbling again, full of crap again. Purposely, probably, but that just makes the crap stink a bit worse.

dear, can you say why you disagree?? Its important to learn to put your objections into words. Seems like you're more of an antifa liberal ie street violence rather than democratic debate. Do you understand?

 

[James972]

WRONG. Fascism is but one form of socialism, the other being communism.

so you don't think liberalism socialism fascism and communism are all in effect the same??

 

[Grand Mal]

A dictionary doesn't define the word 'dictionary'. No dictionary defines any word. No dictionary owns any word.

Jesus, of all the stupidity I've seen under your name this one takes the cake. You and your sidekick here, if you're both trolling, if neither of you really believes the idiocy you're posting, that might, I say might leave you able to claim an IQ of, oh, lets say 75-80. Being generous.
Have you ever, in your adult life, opened a dictionary? Look here, this is from Merriam-Websters which I recommend to Americans...

Definition of dictionary
1 : a reference source in print or electronic form containing words usually alphabetically arranged along with information about their forms, pronunciations, functions, etymologies, meanings, and syntactic and idiomatic uses
2 : a reference book listing alphabetically terms or names important to a particular subject or activity along with discussion of their meanings and applications
3 : a reference book listing alphabetically the words of one language and showing their meanings or translations in another language
4 : a computerized list (as of items of data or words) used for reference (as for information retrieval or word processing)

Defining words is exactly what dictionaries do, and if you think you can communicate using your own definitions you're even more dimwitted than I thought.

 

[Grand Mal]

dear, can you say why you disagree?? Its important to learn to put your objections into words. Seems like you're more of an antifa liberal ie street violence rather than democratic debate. Do you understand?

Alright, sweetie, tell me- do you really consider Stalin and Hitler liberals?

Lemme anticipate your affirmative answer and ask you this, did you learn that or make it up? Can you cite a historical source that says Hitler and Stalin were liberals?

 

[James972]

Alright, sweetie, tell me- do you really consider Stalin and Hitler liberals?

of course why do you think so many of our liberals spied for Stalin and gave him bomb?? Why do you think Sanders honeymooned in the USSR???

 

[James972]

source that says Hitler and Stalin were liberals?

AOC calls herself a socialist and so did Hitler and Stalin and all 3 want huge huge govt.

 

[Grand Mal]

of course why do you think so many of our liberals spied for Stalin and gave him bomb?? Why do you think Sanders honeymooned in the USSR???

Anyone who supported Stalin was not a liberal, I don't care what you, they or anyone else says.

 

[James972]

Anyone who supported Stalin was not a liberal, I don't care what you, they or anyone else says.

dear at the time they didn't know he was killing 60 million very slowly they thought he was good guy fellow communist for the people. Now, liberals are still communists and this time it seems so obvious to them that AOC could never be just another liberal mass murderer. The libcommie will always have a new scam- this time its a young woman. Very innovative-right?

Lenin: " The goal of socialism is communism"

 

[Quag]

Not really.

Communism isn't about dictatorship in itself - it merely succumbs to that state because it is an economic system that can only be imposed by force.

Agreed

Fascism is indeed about dictatorship. Or rather the investiture of sole power into one man with the support of a political party.
However the term "fascism" is very specific and can really only be applied to the political situation in Italy after WWI and to the end of WWII
I don't even like calling Hitler a fascist. Hitler was a Nazi and whilst Hitler shared a few ideals with Mussolini and Franco, he had very different ideas too.

Nazism is a form of fascism, Hitler modeled much of what he did on Mussolini's fascists.

Nazism is a form of fascism and showed that ideology's disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system, but also incorporated fervent antisemitism, scientific racism, and eugenics into its creed. Its extreme nationalism came from Pan-Germanism and the Völkisch movement prominent in the German nationalism of the time, and it was strongly influenced by the anti-Communist Freikorps paramilitary groups that emerged after Germany's defeat in World War I, from which came the party's "cult of violence" which was "at the heart of the movement."[

Nazism - Wikipedia

Post WWI, Germany had many socialist movements. Socialism was an idea whose time, it seemed, had come. The Nazis called themselves "National Socialists" to broaden their appeal, not that they subscribed to Marx's writings on capitalism. Though there were a few in the movement who did believe in a socialist state.

Hitler took care of any socialists on the night of the long knives. Any attempt to associate Nazism with the left should have ended at that point.

I've no idea what you're trying to say here.

I am saying the ones who claim Nazism and fascism are left wing are actually Nazis and fascist in their ideology.

Leaders like Lenin, Stalin, Mao and even Hitler genuinely thought that what they were doing was for the greater good.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

No Nazi or SS soldier ever went into battle thinking he was one of the "bad guys".

Agreed with Lenin and Hitler but not Stalin he was all about himself just like the current leader in Russia

Marxists today genuinely don't understand why people won't support them...unless they are the rich with a vested interest.
No Fascist, Nazi, Marxist, Communist ever sought political power with the end of making life miserable for their own people.

Today Nazism is just a smokescreen for white supremacists and racists.

Again, todays Nazis pretend that Nazism/fascism is left wing in a vain attempt to rewrite history and distance themselves from terms with negative connotations.

 

[gfm7175]

Jesus, of all the stupidity I've seen under your name this one takes the cake.

Insult Fallacy.

You and your sidekick here,

I assume you are referring to me here...

if you're both trolling,

Irrelevant.

if neither of you really believes the idiocy you're posting,

Still waiting for your counterargument...

that might, I say might leave you able to claim an IQ of, oh, lets say 75-80. Being generous.

I could claim whatever IQ I wanted to... mehhhh...

Have you ever, in your adult life, opened a dictionary?

Yes. Even as a child...

Look here, this is from Merriam-Websters which I recommend to Americans...

Definition of dictionary
1 : a reference source in print or electronic form containing words usually alphabetically arranged along with information about their forms, pronunciations, functions, etymologies, meanings, and syntactic and idiomatic uses
2 : a reference book listing alphabetically terms or names important to a particular subject or activity along with discussion of their meanings and applications
3 : a reference book listing alphabetically the words of one language and showing their meanings or translations in another language
4 : a computerized list (as of items of data or words) used for reference (as for information retrieval or word processing)

Merriam Webster sucks... Oxford is where it's at!!

Defining words is exactly what dictionaries do,

No, they don't. They standardize spelling and pronunciation of words. They also offer examples of how words might be used in sentences. They are not an authority over any word definition.

and if you think you can communicate using your own definitions you're even more dimwitted than I thought.

Huh??

 

[Rich2018]

...Nazism is a form of fascism, Hitler modeled much of what he did on Mussolini's fascists...

Yes Mussolini's fascists came before Hitler's Nazis but calling Hitler a fascist is at best inaccurate IMO.


Though very similar, Mussolini and Hitler different in a few key areas - notably their attitude to race. So really fascism should only be used to refer to Mussolini's followers and Nazis should only be used to refer to Hitler's followers.
Franco in Spain had a similar political system, but his power base was not a political party like Mussolini or Hitler, but the Spanish military. Yet some would call him a fascist too.

Where we could agree is that both the Fascists and Nazis supported a political system that focused political power under one man with the backing of a political party.
However that same criteria can be used to describe Stalin and Mao too.
So if you call Hitler a fascist, you should also call Stalin a fascist.

...Hitler took care of any socialists on the night of the long knives. Any attempt to associate Nazism with the left should have ended at that point....

Specifically socialists within the Nazi party and most particularly Ernst Roehm

Nazi economic policy seemed to shift over the years...Hitler got into bed with the wealthy German industrialists as he realized he needed their manufacturing power and wealth.

...I am saying the ones who claim Nazism and fascism are left wing are actually Nazis and fascist in their ideology....

As I said in my previous post, Fascism and Nazism are about how political power is distributed.

The old Left Wing - Right Wing is a one dimensional concept and not adequate to describe differences between Stalin's USSR and Hitler's Nazi Germany.


Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Franco, Stalin were all ultra right wing politically. As was Saddam and is Kim Junh-Un today.


What differentiates Hitler from Stalin (aside from racial policies) was their attitudes to economics and wealth.

...agreed with Lenin and Hitler but not Stalin he was all about himself just like the current leader in Russia....

Yes and no, Stalin was determined to transform the USSR and he did.

Under Stalin, the USSR industrialized on a massive scale. That the USSR won the Great Patriotic War with Nazi Germany is largely down to the industrialization under Stalin's rule.


Stalin was a communist, he was a revolutionary and organized workers meetings and strikes in a time when the Tsar's secret police came down hard on such activities.
He was a thug and got what he wanted in brutal fashion.

But in his mind, I'm sure that he was still a revolutionary to the day he died, still convinced that communism was the way forward for the USSR.

...todays Nazis pretend that Nazism/fascism is left wing in a vain attempt to rewrite history and distance themselves from terms with negative connotations.

I'm not sure who today's Nazis are - except for an extreme group of white supremacists. They tend to be poor and resentful so perhaps you're right and if any of them have enough brain cells to think they'd probably support social democracy and wealth re-distribution.

 

[Rich2018]

1) founders were republican
2) they made liberalism illegal through restricting govt to only enumerated powers and through 9th and 10th Amendments. 1+1=2

The founders were liberals who believed in democracy.


If they thought liberalism should be made illegal, they would have arrested Thomas Jefferson for writing the Declaration of Independence.

 

[James972]

The founders were liberals who believed in democracy.
.

wrong of course. if they had believed in democracy they would have wanted everyone to vote and there would have been no need for a Constitution. They thought democracy was mob rule. Once again welcome to your first lesson in American History.

 

[James972]

If they thought liberalism should be made illegal, they would have arrested Thomas Jefferson for writing the Declaration of Independence.

Jefferson and Madison founded the Republican Party in 1793 to stand for very very tiny govt, the exact opposite of libcommie Green New Deal liberalism.

Here are 3 quotes from Jefferson with which to begin your education:"

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."

"The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature."

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

 

[James972]

Yes Mussolini's fascists came before Hitler's Nazis but calling Hitler a fascist is at best inaccurate IMO.

Hitler and Mussolini were both liberal statists so identical to our Founders who created the greatest revolution in human history by gifting to us freedom from liberal statist govt. Do you understand.

 

[James972]

Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Franco, Stalin were all ultra right wing politically. As was Saddam and is Kim Junh-Un today.

right-wing is for limited govt!! HOw do you manage to get it backwards every time? Jefferson was first Republican conservative. He was for very very limited govt. 1+1=2

 

[James972]

Anyone who supported Stalin was not a liberal, I don't care what you, they or anyone else says.

liberals supported Stalin HItler Mao Castro Chavez Obama and now AOC. 1+1=2

 

[Rich2018]

wrong of course....

Nope, read on McDuff

...if they had believed in democracy they would have wanted everyone to vote and there would have been no need for a Constitution....

They did want everyone to vote.

They just didn't think that women, blacks and Indians were the equals of white males

They were sexist and racist. Sorry to burst you bubble about that.


Interesting thing you just said: Why would there be no need for a constitution ?

...they thought democracy was mob rule....

No they didn't

Most were from Britain which practiced democracy - albeit an even more imperfect version that the founding fathers came up with.
What's interesting though is that slavery was never legal in Britain and Britain abolished slavery and gave equal rights to all men and suffrage to women before the USA did.

So perhaps you're right that the US was founded by liberals but their liberalism descended into conservatism.

...oOnce again welcome to your first lesson in American History....

It's quite shocking how much I have to school Americans about their OWN history

...Jefferson and Madison founded the Republican Party in 1793 to stand for very very tiny govt, the exact opposite of libcommie Green New Deal liberalism....

And they utterly failed...the Republican party soon became the party of big government and big spending.

None more so than the current president who has just presented with the biggest EVER federal budget.


So don't tell me republicans = small government.

...here are 3 quotes from Jefferson with which to begin your education:

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."

"The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature."

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

Jefferson was definitely a liberal.

...Hitler and Mussolini were both liberal ....

LMFAO

Hitler was a liberal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hitler sought to exterminate the Jews of Europe...I must say that strikes me as one of the most "liberal" policies ever.


The Final Solution is the best example of liberalism.


Liberalism = Liberty


Again, just how old are you ?

...our Founders who created the greatest revolution in human history...

I always thought the Glorious revolution of 1688 was the greatest revolution ever in political terms.


But I suppose you've never heard of that ?






right-wing is for limited govt!! HOw do you manage to get it backwards every time? Jefferson was first Republican conservative. He was for very very limited govt. 1+1=2[/QUOTE]

 

[James972]

Nope, read on McDuff

if you have any idea what that means why not tell us??

 

[James972]

They did want everyone to vote.

only property owners white males. Notice how I 'm made to feel like a kindergarten teacher?

 

[James972]

Interesting thing you just said: Why would there be no need for a constitution ?

In a true democracy the people vote without restrictions placed by a Constitution. 1+1=2

 

[James972]

So don't tell me republicans = small government.

Trump cut taxes and regulations massively while AOC wants total govt take over. 1+1=2

 

[James972]

Jefferson was definitely a liberal.

]

if he was then he and Madison were liberals for tiny tiny govt. 1+1=2