Delta Variant

[Manc Skipper]

Employers can already mandate a vaccine as a condition of employment. Not all employers will, even after FDA approval. Mine will not. However it is common sense that hospitals mandate it.

Why is it ok for hospitals to mandate it?

 

[Ethel2]

Fauci suggested three. Wearing more then one is a health risk for many. It's a dump suggestion by Fauci. And it's now known in the medical community that while masks prior to the vaccines were a sensible precaution, it made little overall difference in how many were infected. Most of the infections were at home or at the office, with or without masks. The three infected at my office wore masks as did everyone else.

Do you have a link to some sort of proof that wearing more than one mask is a health risk to anyone? There are a few medical conditions (VERY few) that make masks a bad idea, but for those rare individuals even a single mask is a bad idea.
For everyone else: YOU wear a mask to protect ME; I wear a mask to protect YOU, just as Dr Fauci said in his emails about masks early on.

 

[snakestretcher]

Alarming people about hurricanes? When? And we should be alarmed about illegal immigration. Besides the enormous strain on our infrastructure, it is also assisting the Mexican cartels in drug running to the US, sex trafficking of children, and increasing the flow of MS-13 gang members into the US. As for playing down a panic about coronavirus, everyone including Nancy Pelosi were playing it down

I see Trump's ignorant rhetoric got to you. You repeated it almost word for word.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Of course they can. Goldman Sachs and other investment firms already do; so do some cruise ship operators. My guess is that many more will require vaccination after full approval is granted, and I think its a wise policy to wait until then to avoid frivolous lawsuits. No, not ALL employers will require it, but it sure makes a lot of sense to do so. Employees who get infected miss a lot of work and can spread the virus to other unprotected employees and potentially close down a business. With the delta variant taking hold unprotected employees are sitting ducks.

Again, while it's just common sense for some employers to mandate vaccines, such as hospitals and yes Cruise ships(One Carnival Cruise line recently docked near here for the sole purpose of vaccinating the entire crew), it would not make sense for all employers to mandate. My employer strongly supports vaccination, but leaves it up to the employees. Sometimes it makes sense to trust your work crews. We do not need 100% compliance to reach herd immunity. Just vaccinating the seniors(myself included) has already been a game changer.

 

[Ethel2]

Again, while it's just common sense for some employers to mandate vaccines, such as hospitals and yes Cruise ships(One Carnival Cruise line recently docked near here for the sole purpose of vaccinating the entire crew), it would not make sense for all employers to mandate. My employer strongly supports vaccination, but leaves it up to the employees. Sometimes it makes sense to trust your work crews. We do not need 100% compliance to reach herd immunity. Just vaccinating the seniors(myself included) has already been a game changer.

There are a few exceptions to employer mandated vaccinations, I agree. Employers who primarily have employees working from home or who have small businesses with little interface with other employees or customers aren't likely to take that route. Then its left up to the individuals to do the responsible thing and get vaccinated. But most businesses do interact with customers and have employees interacting with each other. In those circumstances its a good business decision to require vaccination because if a large enough number of employees get sick the business is closed down.

 

[MAGAnificent]

I see Trump's ignorant rhetoric got to you. You repeated it almost word for word.

I hate to toss in the term TDS when we were actually having a reasonable conversation, however my stance on illegal immigration preceded the Trump presidency by decades. It's not ignorant rhetoric. The cartels have been taking advantage of illegal immigration as have the MS-13 gangs. In the last few years, a 13 year old girl was beheaded by an MS-13 gang member in my state, solely because her aunt wanted out of a drug running scheme. And the cartels are also running sex trafficking. As you live in the UK and not a US southern border state as I do, you are not qualified to push of the threats of illegal immigration off as empty rhetoric.

 

[MAGAnificent]

There are a few exceptions to employer mandated vaccinations, I agree. Employers who primarily have employees working from home or who have small businesses with little interface with other employees or customers aren't likely to take that route. Then its left up to the individuals to do the responsible thing and get vaccinated. But most businesses do interact with customers and have employees interacting with each other. In those circumstances its a good business decision to require vaccination because if a large enough number of employees get sick the business is closed down.

If not for the vaccines, I would mostly agree. However the vaccines have been a game changer and as we get closer and closer to so-called herd immunity, there will be less and less call or need for employer mandates. The vast majority of those getting infected today are those not getting vaccinated. Of the three infected in my office, the most recent, weeks ago was just the next office over from mine, basically less then ten feet away. I was already fully vaccinated as were most others and did not get infected.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Why is it ok for hospitals to mandate it?

Why ask a dumb question that you already know the answer to?

 

[ouch]

Or, alternatively, we can just let the Trump supporters live in their own fantasy world of Earth Two until they start to impinge on American democracy with their actions, like the myriad ways in which they are attempting to suppress the vote. Then we have to take action here on Earth One.

If only Covid-19 and it's cousins were selectively intelligent enough to target only the radicals/extremists providing the reasonable populous with a permanent solution.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Or, alternatively, we can just let the Trump supporters live in their own fantasy world of Earth Two until they start to impinge on American democracy with their actions, like the myriad ways in which they are attempting to suppress the vote. Then we have to take action here on Earth One.

When it comes to Covid, I would like the island.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Fauci suggested three. Wearing more then one is a health risk for many. It's a dump suggestion by Fauci. And it's now known in the medical community that while masks prior to the vaccines were a sensible precaution, it made little overall difference in how many were infected. Most of the infections were at home or at the office, with or without masks. The three infected at my office wore masks as did everyone else.

Let me tell you what mask do. Wearing a mask can actually give you some immunity if exposed to small amounts of virus. It's why a lot of Asians have some immunity to Covid, and get less ill when you catch it. They have some acquired immunity to a lot of viruses because of masks.
I'll probably wear one every Flu/Covid season in the future.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Let me tell you what mask do. Wearing a mask can actually give you some immunity if exposed to small amounts of virus. It's why a lot of Asians have some immunity to Covid, and get less ill when you catch it. They have some acquired immunity to a lot of viruses because of masks.
I'll probably wear one every Flu/Covid season in the future.

That's one of the silliest claims I have ever heard.

 

[Ginger Ale]

That's one of the silliest claims I have ever heard.

MSN

www.msn.com

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913

I agree, it sounds silly. It is how you build immunity tho.

Have a look. It's being studied a lot lately. If I was afraid to get the vaccine, I'd at least wear a mask....worth a try. I wouldn't recommend it as your only protection but.....it's better than nothing.


In an outbreak on a closed Argentinian cruise ship, for example, where passengers were provided with surgical masks and staff with N95 masks, the rate of asymptomatic infection was 81% (as compared with 20% in earlier cruise ship outbreaks without universal masking). In two recent outbreaks in U.S. food-processing plants, where all workers were issued masks each day and were required to wear them, the proportion of asymptomatic infections among the more than 500 people who became infected was 95%, with only 5% in each outbreak experiencing mild-to-moderate symptoms.3 Case-fatality rates in countries with mandatory or enforced population-wide masking have remained low, even with resurgences of cases after lockdowns were lifted.

Variolation was a process whereby people who were susceptible to smallpox were inoculated with material taken from a vesicle of a person with smallpox, with the intent of causing a mild infection and subsequent immunity. Variolation was practiced only until the introduction of the variola vaccine, which ultimately eradicated smallpox.

 

[MAGAnificent]

MSN

www.msn.com

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2026913

I agree, it sounds silly. It is how you build immunity tho.

Have a look. It's being studied a lot lately. If I was afraid to get the vaccine, I'd at least wear a mask....worth a try. I wouldn't recommend it as your only protection but.....it's better than nothing.


In an outbreak on a closed Argentinian cruise ship, for example, where passengers were provided with surgical masks and staff with N95 masks, the rate of asymptomatic infection was 81% (as compared with 20% in earlier cruise ship outbreaks without universal masking). In two recent outbreaks in U.S. food-processing plants, where all workers were issued masks each day and were required to wear them, the proportion of asymptomatic infections among the more than 500 people who became infected was 95%, with only 5% in each outbreak experiencing mild-to-moderate symptoms.3 Case-fatality rates in countries with mandatory or enforced population-wide masking have remained low, even with resurgences of cases after lockdowns were lifted.

Variolation was a process whereby people who were susceptible to smallpox were inoculated with material taken from a vesicle of a person with smallpox, with the intent of causing a mild infection and subsequent immunity. Variolation was practiced only until the introduction of the variola vaccine, which ultimately eradicated smallpox.

It's quackery.

 

[Ginger Ale]

It's quackery.

Do you think the vaccine is quackery?

 

[MAGAnificent]

Do you think the vaccine is quackery?

No.

 

[Ginger Ale]

No.

Well, one lead to the other so, not so quacky I guess.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Well, one lead to the other so, not so quacky I guess.

Suggesting that masks give you immunity is quackery. Bat shit crazy even.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Suggesting that masks give you immunity is quackery. Bat shit crazy even.

It's masks MAY give you immunity. Viral load matters. But I have a feeling you wouldn't wear a mask regardless. So no need to argue about this hypothesis.

 

[Ethel2]

If only Covid-19 and it's cousins were selectively intelligent enough to target only the radicals/extremists providing the reasonable populous with a permanent solution.

I guess in a way the delta variant could be looked at as a semi-positive thing: it’s going to selectively pick off and eliminate covidiots while leaving normal people alone. Almost everyone dying now is a covidiot. And the vast majority of people infected are covidiots. So they will either become immune or just eliminated from the gene pool-either way they will unintentionally bring us closer to herd immunity.

 

[Ethel2]

Suggesting that masks give you immunity is quackery. Bat shit crazy even.

Multiple small exposures to any pathogen has the potential to provide some level of immunity. Its even been hypothesized that a recent upper respiratory infection ( ie a cold) may provide some immunity because the viruses are related.
Before you make unfounded statements you should learn something about immunology.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Multiple small exposures to any pathogen has the potential to provide some level of immunity. Its even been hypothesized that a recent upper respiratory infection ( ie a cold) may provide some immunity because the viruses are related.
Before you make unfounded statements you should learn something about immunology.

Then it's the multiple small exposures that are giving the immunity, not the mask. Everyone I know who ended up with Covid wore masks and still ended up with full blown Covid.

 

[Ethel2]

Then it's the multiple small exposures that are giving the immunity, not the mask. Everyone I know who ended up with Covid wore masks and still ended up with full blown Covid.

Masks protect others from you if you are infected much more effectively than the protection they provide you with from others who might be infected.
The level of protection provided by multiple small exposures ( because masks do filter out some virus if its present) is absolutely nothing you can depend on to help you.

 

[MAGAnificent]

It's masks MAY give you immunity. Viral load matters. But I have a feeling you wouldn't wear a mask regardless. So no need to argue about this hypothesis.

Now you are projecting. I wore as mask when it was mandated and still do where it's required or appropriate. I am not anti-mask. I just do not buy into the ludicrous claim that masks give you immunity. Some protection, yes, but not immunity. If you get enough viral load to get infected at all, you are going to get Covid, with symptoms or asymptomatic. If anything they are learning that the vast majority of cases are from prolonged exposure.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Masks protect others from you if you are infected much more effectively than the protection they provide you with from others who might be infected.

Huh????

The level of protection provided by multiple small exposures ( because masks do filter out some virus if its present) is absolutely nothing you can depend on to help you.

If you get multiple exposures and you are not vaccinated, chances are you are going to get Covid. And if you do get it, then the mask failed at some point. Whether you end up with a symptomatic case or asymptomatic case, is entirely up to your immune system and general state of health. The virus replicates itself. All it needs is for that one spike protein to get past your immune system defense.