Deep state leaker or a patriot?

[Rich2018]

Anyone can report wrongdoing whenever they see or hear it. It's called supporting law and order. Remember that?

And what's more it's protected

The US Marshall's Office run an entire witness protection program from that principle.

 

[Trump]

Anyone can report wrongdoing whenever they see or hear it. It's called supporting law and order. Remember that?

wrong doing is Trump having 2 scoops of ice scream for SchiffShow...:lamo

 

[Rich2018]

wrong doing is Trump having 2 scoops of ice scream for SchiffShow...:lamo

What is Trump committing an impeachable offense then ?

 

[iguanaman]

wrong doing is Trump having 2 scoops of ice scream for SchiffShow...:lamo

LOL I hope he has 20 scoops.

 

[Outlook]

ol hell look what i found trying to find what you said.
Ted Kennedy’s Secret Appeal to Russia to Hurt Reagan

damn looks like the democrats are in over their ears with using russia to meddle in our elections.

Is this the same Ted Kennedy the democrats adored and praised. The same Kennedy that got away with manslaughter when he got drunk and killed a woman, the low life Kennedy that ran from the scene. This guy is the democrats mentor.

 

[trixare4kids]

Somehow I don’t see the word, “treason” there.

No it doesn't but nonetheless, espionage is just as serious an offense, and IMO, it's a form of treason to one's country.

Congress has passed laws creating related offenses that punish conduct that undermines the government or the national security, such as sedition in the 1798 Alien and Sedition Acts, or espionage and sedition in the Espionage Act of 1917, which do not require the testimony of two witnesses and have a much broader definition than Article Three treason. Some of these laws are still in effect. The well-known spies Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were charged with conspiracy to commit espionage, rather than treason

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Treason - Wikipedia

 

[Trump]

Is this the same Ted Kennedy the democrats adored and praised. The same Kennedy that got away with manslaughter when he got drunk and killed a woman, the low life Kennedy that ran from the scene. This guy is the democrats mentor.

Yeah that family was a mess....got away with murder....literally

 

[Mach]

You have no idea what the above really says about you, do ya?
I could make a blame list like you did, but you're not worth the time....

By all means, please make a list of everyone Trump has blamed since he was in office. You will run out of patience before you run out of people he blamed.

 

[Visbek]

I'm not advocating isolationism but engagement where our interests are truly at stake and there's some end game that can realistically be achieved after which, we withdraw.

That "engagement" sounds awfully transactional. You've already suggested that the US shouldn't be involved because we don't need their oil (which is not true, Persian Gulf nations still make up 16% of oil imports). Your position seems to be "sure, we can sacrifice American lives, but only if we get a bunch of oil out of it!" It is incredibly difficult to see that as a morally sound position.

Plus, the idea of "win today, leave immediately" is unrealistic. That isn't how modern warfare works, and that has to be a consideration before engaging military action. Too late for that now.

And yet again! Wringing your hands is all well and good, but it doesn't change the fact that withdrawing now will be a disaster for the Kurds and, to a lesser extent, the US.

The Shiites and Sunnis are going to be at each other's throats no matter what we do.

And again, that's just ahistorical nonsense. The Sunnis and Shiites haven't spent the last 1400 years slaughtering each other non-stop. The sectarian conflict is really about the political conflict between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Iraq didn't have a ton of sectarian tension before the US invasion, in no small part because Hussein hated both Iran and the Saudis. When the US took him out, Iran (90% Shia) started to back Shia groups in Iraq (61% Shia). The conflict is not theological or ethnic, it's about political power.

We're not even talking about a sectarian conflict in northern Syria! It's all political. Assad started the war because he didn't want to be deposed and replaced by a democracy. The US backed pro-democracy rebels to kill ISIL, and to take out another autocrat that backs terrorism and hates Israel. Russia stepped in because Assad is their last ally in the region, and Syria has the only Russian base in the Middle East. Turkey stepped in because they wanted to take out the Kurds.

That's nothing new, by the way. Most sectarian conflicts are really about politics. E.g. in Northern Ireland, the split between Catholics and Protestants is really about English vs Irish control. The IRA wasn't bombing buildings because most Brits don't go to confession, it's because they hated being under British control. In most cases, religion is merely recruited by the political actors to justify the violence. (See https://www.amazon.com/Fields-Blood-Religion-History-Violence/dp/0307946967)

And again, even with longer conflicts, the "Endless War" claim is complete nonsense. We could have said the same thing about the Chinese and Japanese, the Protestants and Catholics, the FSLN and the Contras, the French and Germans, the list goes on. Enemies yesterday, allies today. It happens over and over.

Oh, and those American lives sure as hell are worth more to their families.

And those Kurdish soldier's lives are worth more to their families. See how that works?

In case you missed it, American soldiers are a volunteer army. America has had active military engagements since 2001, and anyone who joins the military today is responsible for knowing that there is a very high chance they will be in active combat. (Kurdish soldiers don't really have that luxury, as their homeland is facing an existential threat.)

And since the US spent years relying on the Kurds -- and I might add, after betraying them at the end of the Gulf War in the 1990s -- it is unconscionable to withdraw and leave them twisting in the wind (again). That goes double because Trump chose to withdraw, knowing that Turkey is planning to attack.

When is it enough?

What do you think this is, Lord of the Rings, where the Big Bad loses and the entire world becomes permanently peaceful overnight?

What you fail to recognize is that interventions do often work, and that the world is actually becoming more peaceful. The problem isn't with the concept of intervention, it's with the execution. E.g. Western powers had lots of legitimate reasons to push out Assad, they just weren't willing to do what it takes. And part of that is the desire of people (like you) to finish things up in 30 seconds and leave, when that is no longer how the world works.

To put it another way: If keeping 1000 or so US troops (who experience very low casualty rates btw) in northern Syria prevents Turkey from attacking 2 million Kurds, that's actually a highly effective humanitarian intervention -- and a much better reason to keep those troops there than hoping to get some oil out of the deal.

 

[Jay59]

What's your criteria for 'aid" and "the enemy" in a time of peace ?

The US government has made it illegal to support the regime in Cuba - that from a government supposedly supporting freedom
So if you so much as buy a bottle of water at Havana airport you have supported the regime.

This is why you have lesser crimes for disseminating classified material against the national interest. All three of those elements are clearly present, so have a prosecutor pick the crime.

No it doesn't but nonetheless, espionage is just as serious an offense, and IMO, it's a form of treason to one's country.

Can be but not always. This is why Hillary's email server is the scandal of the generation. It could literally be a death sentence offense and she walked.

 

[Visbek]

No it doesn't but nonetheless, espionage is just as serious an offense, and IMO, it's a form of treason to one's country.

Amazing. Everything you just wrote is wrong.

The two are quite different. Espionage covers a broad range of offenses, whereas treason in the US is very specific.

Espionage can be a serious crime; it can also be relatively mild. In the US, treason is one of the most serious criminal acts in US law. E.g. photographing a military installation without permission could result in an espionage charge; obviously, that's not an act of treason.

Treason only applies to US citizens. In contrast, espionage applies to both domestic and foreign citizens. Foreigners spy on the US all the time, and the actions and/or punishments are often relatively mild. Foreign spies usually end up deported, sometimes swapped for US spies. Treason typically results in execution.

Of course, there really isn't a "typical treason case," as there have only been about 30 treason cases in the US, and none since the end of World War II. That's how serious it is -- not a single case in over 7 decades. Espionage is much more common.

There's another consideration here as well, namely that Trump has a habit of accusing his enemies of the things he's done. Maybe that explains why he keeps throwing that term around....

 

[chuckiechan]

At what point do Trump defenders feel stupid?

It's not Trump.. it's:
- a deep state "leaker" -
- a partisan whistle-blower
- a second partisan whistle-blower
- Schiff, Nancy, Nadler all out to get him
- Republican Rosenstein out ot get him
- Republican Comey out to get him
- Republican Mueller out to get him
- Cohen his former personal fixer for 10 years, was the bad guy
- FBI is all corrupted when it comes to Trump
- U.S. Intelligence got it all wrong, Trump/Russia know best
- The 80% of all U.S. news media is all wrong, only the faithful 20% (entertainers like Hannity, Rush, etc.) are right
- Our U.S. diplomats are wrong, Trump is right
- Former navy seals..wrong, Trump is rigt.
- **** the gold start families, Trump is right.
- FEC is wrong, Trump is right
- Courts are wrong when against Trump
- Senate is wrong (on Russian sanctions), Trump is right

vs
The problem is Trump.

It's like everyone in the universe has to be deemed wrong, any time they oppose Trump. At what point do his supporters feel stupid.

It's Trump.

I dont recall you being against the Muller investigation, all three years worth. What are you afraid Agent Durham and AG Barr are going to find out? And since I doubt you are personally involved, what’s wrong with following along and cheering the search for justice?

 

[Jay59]

Anyone can report wrongdoing whenever they see or hear it. It's called supporting law and order. Remember that?

No I don't think so. Against agency rules yes, against the law, I doubt it.

It is, with exceptions. Hence the need for a FISA court order.

 

[trixare4kids]

By all means, please make a list of everyone Trump has blamed since he was in office. You will run out of patience before you run out of people he blamed.

He's blamed as many people as Obama has blamed, lest you've forgotten the latter was a huge blamer but what does this have to do with my thread anyway?

Focus. The premise is explained in the O/P.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Yeah that family was a mess....got away with murder....literally

Literally, you’re wrong.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Deep state unnamed leaker or a patriot?
I'll let you decide.

Discuss.

Exclusive: Official Who Heard Call Says Trump Got 'Rolled' By Turkey and 'Has No Spine'

The assumption you seem to be making is that Trump is a patriot, whatever the **** that means anymore, thus anyone who doesn't sheeple along behind Donald Trump is not a patriot. A "leaker" whatever that means anymore is not a "patriot", according to the OP and you if you agree with the OP.

Let me start by saying someone would have to be delusional and/or dishonest to write a definition of "patriot" where it fits Donald Trump. But, please, give us the definition of a patriot.

 

[CaughtInThe]

a number of intelligent people (who have worked for Trump) have already told you guys that he's an idiot.

what else does it take??

 

[trixare4kids]

The assumption you seem to be making is that Trump is a patriot, whatever the **** that means anymore, thus anyone who doesn't sheeple along behind Donald Trump is not a patriot. A "leaker" whatever that means anymore is not a "patriot", according to the OP and you if you agree with the OP.

Let me start by saying someone would have to be delusional and/or dishonest to write a definition of "patriot" where it fits Donald Trump. But, please, give us the definition of a patriot.

I'll tell you what it isn't... some partisan nitwit who leaks private phone conversations between two heads of state.

 

[Jay59]

a number of intelligent people (who have worked for Trump) have already told you guys that he's an idiot. what else does it take??

Have you ever heard of sour grapes? When intelligent people stop taking job offers, talk to me.

 

[JackA]

P

No it doesn't but nonetheless, espionage is just as serious an offense, and IMO, it's a form of treason to one's country.

.

Treason - Wikipedia

No, you don’t think that. If you did you would have been satisfied with using “espionage”, but the word hasn’t the same the dastardly oomph. So you picked the oomph instead.

 

[trixare4kids]

P

No, you don’t think that. If you did you would have been satisfied with using “espionage”, but the word hasn’t the same the dastardly oomph. So you picked the oomph instead.

You argue just to argue... Did you notice that I said this was IMO?

You're dismissed.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I'll tell you what it isn't... some partisan nitwit who leaks private phone conversations between two heads of state.

Trump will drop a dime on anyone in a heartbeat if it benefits him, not his country but himself.

I'd very much like for the US to adios the entire sandlot and leave those nations the hell alone. That cannot, however, happen overnight. Trump has proven time and time again that knows little about diplomacy. Hell, he's damn near clueless about history and geography. Trump's foreign policy is a cluster****. Trump caved to Erdogan's pressure, or Putin's, or both. Trump sold the Kurd's down the river and US allies as well. It's hard enough to win hearts and minds when you are known for having a history of suddenly betraying and peeing on those you've called friend and fought beside. Erdogan owned Trump regarding Syria, but the ramifications of his impulsive actions will be felt if not seen far beyond Syria.

 

[3leftsdoo]

That's because no previous president ever voluntarily facilitated genocide before. Desperate times and all that.

Wait - what?

 

[3leftsdoo]

For the same reasons anyone else wants to "confront" an accuser "face to face."

If you were being accused of something, I suppose you would prefer the accuser remain anonymous? :roll:

Plus, you know, the Constitution.

But Democrats REALLY hate that document...

 

[3leftsdoo]

I can't help but think that it is the American People who are being 'rolled', again, by Deep State creatures and their sycophants in the media.

Real Whistleblowers, like Ellsberg, Manning, Snowden, Assange and more stand tall with their own names.

Faux Whistleblowers inside the Deep State remain hidden and disguised, anonymous, like so many sources "quoted" by our mainstream media.

^ ^This.