Decriminalize Sex

[aociswundumho]

If it's a business providing a service, why shouldnt it meet the same guidelines and laws for other businesses?

Because it should be decided by the woman and her customer, not by some idiot politician.

 

[aociswundumho]

If it's a business providing a service, why shouldnt it meet the same guidelines and laws for other businesses?

Furthermore, if it's regulated then the black market will still exist, and you will be punishing women for having sex for money.

I thought she should be in control of her body?

 

[Lursa]

Because it should be decided by the woman and her customer, not by some idiot politician.

Isnt that the case for any business? So then why shouldnt it be regulated and licensed like any other service-based business?

Again...because you dont believe in that, period.

Furthermore, if it's regulated then the black market will still exist, and you will be punishing women for having sex for money.

Why isnt that the case for all businesses? Or a concern for all businesses?

I thought she should be in control of her body?

Sure, just like any service provider in a business...right?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

How? Please be specific? That makes no sense to me at all. Why cant they do that now?



It's an industry where the workers can have primary control. It seems to work just outside of LV.

My example of hair stylists/salons is an example. Or if women want to be part of bigger organization, then again...this is a licensed business...there are rules and laws and benefits and HR. (They have escort services now for men and women and basically...sex is for sale, right? Just not part of the brochure or website.) This would become available to more wishing to charge for sex as a service...a better, safer environment.



Workers can be exploited in any job. Why are you hung up on sex as some exception? Just like the other poster. This would enable MORE oversight and regulation.

And it will promote a higher quality of sex worker, with the benefits/$$$ to actually enable that status for the sex worker.

There will always be addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill, etc. Nothing's going to keep them off the streets. I'm talking about an avenue for women or men to more safely provide a service as an avenue to make a living and move up or on to other things. Just like any other entry level job OR they can also move up into "management." Yes...businesses have people that manage them, accountants, marketing, security, etc.

If people would get their minds out of the gutter and the unfortunate reality that being illegal ensures the services remain there...then they could see that this is an avenue for some people. They can do it in Amsterdam.

IMO it's hypocritical and puritanical (and useless) not to legalize and regulate prostitution. And IMO, more harmful to the prostitutes.



Well let legalization sort them out. Then those people can be scooped off the streets and directed more constructively. Right? Redirected to programs or therapy?

You are incredibly naive then.

There are already numerous sites and apps for advertising sex work. If you decriminalize sex work, sex workers can use those services to advertise their work and accept payment for them without risk of being arrested for it - and without having to rely on a brothel owner or pimp.

As to the rest of your post. You seem to think that selling your body is like any other "entry level job". FFS, if your son or daughter had the choice of a job waiting tables or selling their body, are you honestly saying that you would be cool with either one? Come the **** on.

If you legalize this, then you legalize the businesses and all the money that goes into it and it will be ripe for exploitation. I know this because in literally every industry where workers are easily exploited, money interests in that industry have lobbied to write their own regulations for that industry. Its exactly why you can fine stripper for taking a sick day or dealing with a sick child.

 

[Lursa]

You are incredibly naive then.

There are already numerous sites and apps for advertising sex work. If you decriminalize sex work, sex workers can use those services to advertise their work and accept payment for them without risk of being arrested for it - and without having to rely on a brothel owner or pimp.

That doesnt answer the question. And it doesnt protect them from violence or stds.

What I propose with legalization and regulation provides actual protections. If this is so great, prostitutes could still use it.

Why shouldnt they have the choice?

As to the rest of your post. You seem to think that selling your body is like any other "entry level job". FFS, if your son or daughter had the choice of a job waiting tables or selling their body, are you honestly saying that you would be cool with either one? Come the **** on.

Not really but there are similarities. More like a small business that you dont really have a lot of options to expand on.

My opinion of the work doesnt matter. It's honest and a choice and it's not taking public assistance. You are judging. Some people DONT start out with other skills...you would deprive them of a safer means to use them.

If you legalize this, then you legalize the businesses and all the money that goes into it and it will be ripe for exploitation.

Like any business? What makes this different?

I know this because in literally every industry where workers are easily exploited, money interests in that industry have lobbied to write their own regulations for that industry. Its exactly why you can fine stripper for taking a sick day or dealing with a sick child.

You are repeating yourself so I'll do so: if it's legal, they dont HAVE to do anything different. But they would have safer options. There would be MORE protections against violence and exploitation. And you ignored what I wrote about the addicted and mentally ill...same thing...they "wont go away"...but if this didnt work for them, then they would have more chance of ending up in treatment or therapy.

 

[aociswundumho]

Sure, just like any service provider in a business...right?

No it isn't. You're putting the state in control of her vagina. You want idiot politicians to set the terms of her sexual activity.

If the state has the legitimate power to control her vagina in this context, then the state has the legitimate power to control her pregnancy.

 

[Lursa]

No it isn't. You're putting the state in control of her vagina. You want idiot politicians to set the terms of her sexual activity.

How is that different from a service that uses someone's hands...like a hair stylist or construction worker? The govt controls those businesses as well.

If the state has the legitimate power to control her vagina in this context, then the state has the legitimate power to control her pregnancy.

I see no such legitimacy...she can have all the consensual sex she wants. We're discussing a business, an exchange of $$ for a service. Is the state getting into the baby production/reduction business?

 

[aociswundumho]

What I propose with legalization and regulation provides actual protections. If this is so great, prostitutes could still use it.

Legalization does not require political control. For example, it's legal for me to drink in my own home. That doesn't imply some politician should be controlling what I drink, how much I drink, etc.

 

[Lursa]

Legalization does not require political control. For example, it's legal for me to drink in my own home. That doesn't imply some politician should be controlling what I drink, how much I drink, etc.

I didnt say it did. That is just my recommendation. For the reasons I posted right in the post you quoted.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

That doesnt answer the question. And it doesnt protect them from violence or stds.

What I propose with legalization and regulation provides actual protections. If this is so great, prostitutes could still use it.

Why shouldnt they have the choice?



Not really but there are similarities. More like a small business that you dont really have a lot of options to expand on.

My opinion of the work doesnt matter. It's honest and a choice and it's not taking public assistance. You are judging. Some people DONT start out with other skills...you would deprive them of a safer means to use them.



Like any business? What makes this different?



You are repeating yourself so I'll do so: if it's legal, they dont HAVE to do anything different. But they would have safer options. There would be MORE protections against violence and exploitation. And you ignored what I wrote about the addicted and mentally ill...same thing...they "wont go away"...but if this didnt work for them, then they would have more chance of ending up in treatment or therapy.

What I am proposing is that only the individuals selling their body should make any money from doing so. What you are proposing is creating an entire industry where massive amounts of money goes into exploiting those willing to sell their body.

 

[aociswundumho]

Is the state getting into the baby production/reduction business?

If you support the state regulating her vagina, then you have no argument when the state regulates her uterus.

 

[Lursa]

What I am proposing is that only the individuals selling their body should make any money from doing so. What you are proposing is creating an entire industry where massive amounts of money goes into exploiting those willing to sell their body.

I gave you an example where that's not true at all. Remember? Hair stylists/salons. It's like you dont even read what I've written.

If there's an economic base for something more...I'm sure someone will create a different business out of it. Remember?? I mentioned escort services? They're all ready out there. As is the more limited example outside LV.

Now, why didnt you acknowledge at least one of the major points in that post? That if it's legal, prostitutes can take advantage OR NOT of what that legalization could provide in terms of safety and higher standards, more $$, etc. It does not "remove" their existing "business models" or ones you described, does it?

 

[aociswundumho]

I didnt say it did. That is just my recommendation. For the reasons I posted right in the post you quoted.

You can't have it both ways. If you support only regulated legal prostitution, then unregulated (which means uncontrolled) women will still be arrested. The only way the woman controls her own body is if the market is free. Anything else means politicians have control over her body.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I gave you an example where that's not true at all. Remember? Hair stylists/salons. It's like you dont even read what I've written.

If there's an economic base for something more...I'm sure someone will create a different business out of it. Remember???? I mentioned escort services? They're all ready out there. As is the more limited example outside LV.

Now, why didnt you acknowledge at least one of the major points in that post? That if it's legal, prostitutes can take advantage OR NOT of what that legalization could provide in terms of safety and higher standards, more $$, etc. It does not "remove" their existing "business models" or ones you described, does it?

And you are incredibly naive if you think a hair stylist is comparable to sex work. That is a ridiculous comparison. Would you feel better cutting someones hair, or having some old creep pay you for sex?

 

[rahl]

Neither applies.

Both apply. Lawrence v Texas.

Solicitation or purchasing sex are not gender, our sexual identification based crimes. Perhaps a better understanding of equal protection would help you.

I understand it perfectly. It’s why I’m able to point out the government has zero authority to regulate any form of consensual sex between adults.

What due process are you referring to? It is possible that procedural due process could be violated during the arrest, but there are currently no substantive due process issues with prostitution arrests.

Of course there is, as the government lacks any authority to regulate consensual sex among adults.

Pick up a civics textbook, you're way off on the fundamentals of what you are claiming.

I’m not claiming anything. I’m pointing out constitutional law. There is zero authority granted to any level of government to regulate consensual sex between adults, in any manner.

 

[Lursa]

If you support the state regulating her vagina, then you have no argument when the state regulates her uterus.

Why did you ignore where I wrote the state was not regulating her vagina...she can have all the free consensual sex she wants. I asked you if it's the same for hair stylists and contractors and their hands? They can use them all day long, "unregulated."

But if they want to be offering their services for $$, then the state has regulations for businesses. What difference do you see for vaginas and hands?

Cue: but businesses shouldnt be regulated at all. (Dont move the goal posts...you're complaining about "the state controlling women's vaginas.")

 

[Lursa]

You can't have it both ways. If you support only regulated legal prostitution, then unregulated (which means uncontrolled) women will still be arrested. The only way the woman controls her own body is if the market is free. Anything else means politicians have control over her body.

Remember what you wrote? Not everything legal is regulated?

 

[Lursa]

And you are incredibly naive if you think a hair stylist is comparable to sex work.

We're discussing businesses. How is it different. Again...you are solely focused on sex. Why?

That is a ridiculous comparison. Would you feel better cutting someones hair, or having some old creep pay you for sex?

I wrote this already too ...remember??? Jesus, it doesnt matter if you dont like what I write...it's a debate. Counter it but dont complain or judge it.

My opinion of the work doesnt matter. It's honest and a choice and it's not taking public assistance. You are judging. Some people DONT start out with other skills...you would deprive them of a safer means to use them.

You also ignored the part about there already being Amsterdam and current US escort business models. You are posting in bad faith.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

We're discussing businesses. How is it different. Again...you are solely focused on sex. Why?

Because it is sex work. Psychologically, having someone pay you for sex is very different than having someone pay you to cut their hair. For once on this forum, think about it for a minute, you might discover you are wrong.

 

[mrjurrs]

Both apply. Lawrence v Texas.

I understand it perfectly. It’s why I’m able to point out the government has zero authority to regulate any form of consensual sex between adults.

Of course there is, as the government lacks any authority to regulate consensual sex among adults.

I’m not claiming anything. I’m pointing out constitutional law. There is zero authority granted to any level of government to regulate consensual sex between adults, in any manner.

Maybe tomorrow the government will wake up and say...Some rando says we're wrong. But I doubt it.

No you don't. Yes they can. If a sex act includes an economic transaction or if it causes harm, the government can regulate it.

If you are pointing out Constitutional law are you also saying that attorneys representing prostitutes arrested for soliciting are incompetent or on the take?

 

[aociswundumho]

There is zero authority granted to any level of government to regulate consensual sex between adults, in any manner.

Really? So you support a free, unregulated sex market?

 

[rahl]

Maybe tomorrow the government will wake up and say...Some rando says we're wrong. But I doubt it.

The constitution says they’re wrong. They are simply ignoring it. Like they do for numerous other illegal things they do.

No you don't. Yes they can. If a sex act includes an economic transaction or if it causes harm, the government can regulate it.

Nope. The government can it regulate CONSENSUAL sex between adults, what so ever.

If you are pointing out Constitutional law are you also saying that attorneys representing prostitutes arrested for soliciting are incompetent or on the take?

I’m pointing out there is no authority granted to the government to regulate ANY form of consensual sex between adults.

 

[Lursa]

My opinion of the work doesnt matter. It's honest and a choice and it's not taking public assistance. You are judging. Some people DONT start out with other skills...you would deprive them of a safer means to use them.

Because it is sex work. Psychologically, having someone pay you for sex is very different than having someone pay you to cut their hair. For once on this forum, think about it for a minute, you might discover you are wrong.

It's a choice...and if it's a choice that sucks...people dont necessarily choose janitor or hospital orderly for fun. Again, respect women (or men). If you think less of them, that's on you. If they manage to get ahead in life, good for them. If it was a bad choice, well we all make them and pay consequences.

You seem to want the status quo. I think they deserve better options...and respect.

 

[rahl]

Really?

Yes

So you support a free, unregulated sex market?

Of course. What consenting adults do together sexually, can’t be regulated by the government.

 

[Gordy327]

Because it is sex work. Psychologically, having someone pay you for sex is very different than having someone pay you to cut their hair. For once on this forum, think about it for a minute, you might discover you are wrong.

How is it different? It's a business transaction. The only difference is the product.