DEBT SPIRAL: Interest costs on U.S. debt to exceed economic growth by 2045💸💸💸 (3 Viewers)

[Phys251]

So now even non-racist comments are considered racist.

Yes, implying that kids all need to look the same for public schools to work is "non-racist."

 

[eohrnberger]

America's middle class was created when they were more progressive. It is disappearing as it has become less progressive.

So what is your definition of "sufficient"?

Sufficient taxation in support of the government, you have to first realize that government is pure overhead, it doesn't create anything, not jobs, not opportunities, not anything, and it is grossly inefficient even at that. Overhead does none of these things.

As overhead, government and it spending need be controlled and reduced at every possible way before a single tax is raised, instituted or increased.

Sufficient government taxation is not one more penny than absolutely necessary.

Any money which the government robs from the private sector takes away from the private sector's ability to create jobs, create opportunities, grow the economy, the tide lifting all boats, such as we saw in the first Trump administration - when government didn't cut back its spending when it should have.

This topic has been discussed, and I even believe we have discussed it, to the conclusion of agreeing to disagree, if I recall. No need to relitigate that in this thread to that same conclusion.

 

[ataraxia]

Sufficient taxation in support of the government, you have to first realize that government is pure overhead, it doesn't create anything, not jobs, not opportunities, not anything, and it is grossly inefficient even at that.

As overhead, government and it spending need be controlled and reduced at every possible way before a single tax is raised, instituted or increased.

Sufficient government taxation is not one more penny than absolutely necessary.

Any money which the government robs from the private sector takes away from the private sector's ability to create jobs, create opportunities, grow the economy, the tide lifting all boats, such as we saw in the first Trump administration - when government didn't cut back its spending when it should have.

Then I suggest Trump cut to the chase and cut Medicare and military defense spending. Those are the biggest expenses. That should really boost productivity, jobs, opportunities, etc...

 

[ataraxia]

Any money which the government robs from the private sector takes away from the private sector's ability to create jobs, create opportunities, grow the economy, the tide lifting all boats, such as we saw in the first Trump administration - when government didn't cut back its spending when it should have.

Are you talking about this?

Donald Trump Built a National Debt So Big (Even Before the Pandemic) That It’ll Weigh Down the Economy for Years

The “King of Debt” promised to reduce the national debt — then his tax cuts made it surge. Add in the pandemic, and he oversaw the third-biggest deficit increase of any president.

www.propublica.org

Or maybe Kansas' latest experiment with it?

Instead of Cutting Taxes, Listen to Kansas.

A failed experiment left the state with underfunded schools, gaps in public services -- and lessons for the rest of us.

ips-dc.org

https://www.npr.org/2017/06/07/531886684/the-kansas-tax-cut-experiment-comes-to-an-end-as-lawmakers-vote-to-raise-taxes

How many more times do you want to keep repeating this experiment to realize it doesn't work?

 

[eohrnberger]

Then I suggest Trump cut to the chase and cut Medicare and military defense spending. Those are the biggest expenses. That should really boost productivity, jobs, opportunities, etc...

If you squeeze out the fraud, waste, and abuse, from those things, along others (i.e. reduce the needless expenses of the government), the money would go allot further.

 

[eohrnberger]

Are you talking about this?

Donald Trump Built a National Debt So Big (Even Before the Pandemic) That It’ll Weigh Down the Economy for Years

The “King of Debt” promised to reduce the national debt — then his tax cuts made it surge. Add in the pandemic, and he oversaw the third-biggest deficit increase of any president.

www.propublica.org

OK. Now do Biden's historic spending which caused the inflation.

Or maybe Kansas' latest experiment with it?

Instead of Cutting Taxes, Listen to Kansas.

A failed experiment left the state with underfunded schools, gaps in public services -- and lessons for the rest of us.

ips-dc.org

https://www.npr.org/2017/06/07/531886684/the-kansas-tax-cut-experiment-comes-to-an-end-as-lawmakers-vote-to-raise-taxes

How many more times do you want to keep repeating this experiment to realize it doesn't work?

Was government fraud, waste and abuse reduced in either of these cases?
Oh, right. It wasn't.

You can't get around the fact that the US federal government is awash in fraud, waste and abuse, as well as needless expenses, all of which is in desperate need of change in a major ways.

 

[ataraxia]

If you squeeze out the fraud, waste, and abuse, from those things, along others (i.e. reduce the needless expenses of the government), the money would go allot further.

I am getting confused. I thought you were just saying ANY government expense is useless and wasteful. But now you think there is something valuable there at the core to try to salvage?

 

[ataraxia]

OK. Now do Biden's historic spending which caused the inflation.

But Trump's $2.2 trillion was OK? Why?

CARES Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Was government fraud, waste and abuse reduced in either of these cases?
Oh, right. It wasn't.

Because it wasn't about fraud, waste, and abuse. Those are very minor issues- except maybe on Fox News or something- and only if there is a dem in the White House. Otherwise, of course, it's fine, right?

You can't get around the fact that the US federal government is awash in fraud, waste and abuse, as well as needless expenses, all of which is in desperate need of change in a major ways.

No it's not. Where are you coming up with this? Do you think measles vaccines cause autism too? Or do you recommend ivermectin for Covid? Have you found Obama's secret Kenyan birth certificate yet? I hear you're not gonna believe what Trump's top people are finding on it! Then we can go looking for cancer causing wind turbines!

 

[eohrnberger]

I am getting confused. I thought you were just saying ANY government expense is useless and wasteful.

But now you think there is something valuable there at the core to try to salvage?

There's always some overhead involved, but it, and its expense, needs to be kept at a purposeful minimum.
The US federal government isn't even close to controlling, much less managing, its fraud, waster and abuse, nor its needless spending.
We are out of options, at this point, as the interest on the federal debit is now one of the top 5 expenses of the federal government.

 

[eohrnberger]

But Trump's $2.2 trillion was OK? Why?

CARES Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Because it wasn't about fraud, waste, and abuse. Those are very minor issues- except maybe on Fox News or something.

This, the start of your logical fallacy.

No it's not.

Do please continue to live in denial.

Where are you coming up with this? Do you think measles vaccines cause autism too? Or do you recommend ivermectin for Covid? Have you found Obama's secret Kenyan birth certificate yet? I hear you're not gonna believe what Trump's top people are finding on it! Then we can go looking for cancer causing wind turbines!

Now you are just injecting talking points as well as the logical fallacy that since there is one good thing, then everything's a good thing.
Sorry, but that, most certainly, is a logical fallacy.

There are going to be some very tough decisions which will need to be made, and I'm not seeing any political leaders who are going to be able to make those decisions.

 

[ataraxia]

There's always some overhead involved, but it, and its expense, needs to be kept at a purposeful minimum.
The US federal government isn't even close to controlling, much less managing, its fraud, waster and abuse, nor its needless spending.
We are out of options, at this point, as the interest on the federal debit is now one of the top 5 expenses of the federal government.

Adjusted for GDP and inflation, there hasn't been much change in it over the decades. It's only seems to be a big problem when there is a dem in the White House.

This is not to say it should not be addressed, but most of it arose out of digging the country out of serious emergency issues- like the Great Recession or the pandemic.

Don't buy the hype. All this business of fraud and abuse is as real as cat eating Haitians in Ohio, Trump U being better than Harvard, and stolen presidential elections.

 

[ataraxia]

This, the start of your logical fallacy.


Do please continue to live in denial.


Now you are just injecting talking points as well as the logical fallacy that since there is one good thing, then everything's a good thing.
Sorry, but that, most certainly, is a logical fallacy.

There are going to be some very tough decisions which will need to be made, and I'm not seeing any political leaders who are going to be able to make those decisions.

Show me any links showing fraud and abuse is a big problem in the US government budget.

 

[ataraxia]

This, the start of your logical fallacy.


Do please continue to live in denial.


Now you are just injecting talking points as well as the logical fallacy that since there is one good thing, then everything's a good thing.
Sorry, but that, most certainly, is a logical fallacy.

There are going to be some very tough decisions which will need to be made, and I'm not seeing any political leaders who are going to be able to make those decisions.

The record is consistent through the decades and speaks for itself:

 

[eohrnberger]

The record is consistent through the decades and speaks for itself:

I can tell that there's some really creative partisan accounting going on here, in this uncited meme.

Yeah, about that 'Clinton Surplus Myth':

But wait just a second – look at what happened to the national debt as we supposedly were racking up surpluses – it increased.​

So what the heck happened? How do we post budget surpluses and yet the national debt increases at the same time?​

​

And with that, I welcome you to the wacky world of government accounting. While we traditionally think of a budget deficit of what it usually is, the government’s spending minus taxes collected, there was an additional variable in the case of Clinton: the Social Security trust fund.​

​

Tabled below are the components of the national debt – public debt plus intragovernmental holdings. Public debt is the discrepancy between taxes and spending (accumulated deficits), and intragovernmental holdings is money borrowed from government trust funds, such as the Social Security and Medicare funds. An increase in intragovernmental holdings would signify that more money is owed to the Social Security/Medicare/etc.​

​

And, indeed, changes in those holdings explain the entirety of the Clinton “surplus.” In fact, you can take the claimed surplus in any given year, add intragovernment holdings to that balance, and you’ll get the exact dollar amount that was added to the national debt that year!​

​

Liberals Lie - There Was No 'Clinton Surplus'

The proof is here!

thepoliticalinsider.com

Shift deficit into debt is an accounting gimmick.
I'd agree that neither political party has been sufficiently fiscally responsible.

 

[ataraxia]

I can tell that there's some really creative partisan accounting going on here, in this uncited meme.

Shift deficit into debt is an accounting gimmick.
I'd agree that neither political party has been sufficiently fiscally responsible.

So you're saying Trump lied here too?

 

[aociswundumho]

Show me any links showing fraud and abuse is a big problem in the US government budget.

Gee, this was hard:

High-Risk Series: Heightened Attention Could Save Billions More and Improve Government Efficiency and Effectiveness

We issued our updated " High Risk List" in February 2025. The List highlights 38 areas across the federal government that are seriously vulnerable to...

www.gao.gov

Improper Payments: Information on Agencies' Fiscal Year 2024 Estimates

Improper payments—those that shouldn't have been made or were made in the incorrect amount—have been a government-wide issue for more than 20 years...

www.gao.gov

https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-25-108172.pdf

Not to mention the fact that in 7 audits, the pentagon still can't verify half of their assets.

Or all the fraud regarding the pandemic money - ppp loans, unemployment fraud, etc.

That took about a minute.

 

[eohrnberger]

So you're saying Trump lied here too?

As if things never change, except they do, especially in 20 years time passing.

Hell, I remember when Democrats would say things like 'I don't agree with your opinion, but will defend to the death your right to speak it', and that's obviously gone to the way side.

Nice cherry picked quote, you must have kept that one in your back pocket for a long time before deciding to spring it.

 

[rahl]

OK. Now do Biden's historic spending which caused the inflation.

It’s hilarious that 3 years later this stupidity is still being peddled

Was government fraud, waste and abuse reduced in either of these cases?
Oh, right. It wasn't.

You can't get around the fact that the US federal government is awash in fraud, waste and abuse, as well as needless expenses, all of which is in desperate need of change in a major ways.

 

[ataraxia]

Gee, this was hard:

High-Risk Series: Heightened Attention Could Save Billions More and Improve Government Efficiency and Effectiveness

We issued our updated " High Risk List" in February 2025. The List highlights 38 areas across the federal government that are seriously vulnerable to...

www.gao.gov

Improper Payments: Information on Agencies' Fiscal Year 2024 Estimates

Improper payments—those that shouldn't have been made or were made in the incorrect amount—have been a government-wide issue for more than 20 years...

www.gao.gov

https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-25-108172.pdf

Not to mention the fact that in 7 audits, the pentagon still can't verify half of their assets.

Or all the fraud regarding the pandemic money - ppp loans, unemployment fraud, etc.

That took about a minute.

Even if fraud is widespread (which it isn’t), the solution is to gut it all and live in the jungle?

 

[ataraxia]

As if things never change, except they do, especially in 20 years time passing.

You were telling us about the Democrats historically. So now we can’t talk about history?

Hell, I remember when Democrats would say things like 'I don't agree with your opinion, but will defend to the death your right to speak it', and that's obviously gone to the way side.

Hell, I remember when it was about differing political opinions, and not about treason, lies, and openly criminal behavior.

Nice cherry picked quote, you must have kept that one in your back pocket for a long time before deciding to spring it.

Wow- you really refuted that one.

 

[eohrnberger]

It’s hilarious that 3 years later this stupidity is still being peddled

It’s hilarious, and credibility damaging frankly, that you believe Biden's spending didn't elevate the already existing COVID inflation.

If Biden's spending magical in your mind somehow that it didn't elevate inflation?

 

[eohrnberger]

You were telling us about the Democrats historically. So now we can’t talk about history?

Hell, I remember when it was about differing political opinions, and not about treason, lies, and openly criminal behavior.

Those accusation of 'treason, lies, and openly criminal behavior' only being the propaganda hoax and smear campaigns from the Dem's MSM.
Since we can't trust what the Dem's MSM propagandists are pushing in their political activism, show me court convictions, and not the court of public opinion.

Wow- you really refuted that one.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Many... future.

How much has Trump increased interest rates for America's loans since April started?

 

[ataraxia]

Those accusation of 'treason, lies, and openly criminal behavior' only being the propaganda hoax and smear campaigns from the Dem's MSM.

These are not just mere accusations. These accusations have been tried in appropriates venue for the crimes involved, and he was found guilty: impeachment at US Congress, convictions in courts of law, etc....

MAGA knows this- no point hiding it. But MAGA likes Trump not IN SPITE of those things- they love him exactly BECAUSE of those things. Of course he is a dangerous criminal- but he is a criminal in their service. They wouldn't have it any other way. He is giving America an offer it can't refuse.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

And Trump is going to add TRILLIONS to the debt with tax cuts for the rich and corporations.


So much winning

Trump increased the interest rate on America's loans too​

already done