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Death Penalty – for or against?[W:306]

Death Penalty

  • For

    Votes: 46 46.9%

  • Against

    Votes: 47 48.0%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 5 5.1%
  • Total voters
    98
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Gaius46 said:
I disagree. Good cannot be done to dead person. Perhaps to their memory/legacy etc but not to them.

My second point is that I cannot condone capital punishment unless I'm willing to allow that I or my family be subjected to it even if I or they are innocent. Since I cannot condone it for myself I cannot condone it for anyone. If I personally am not willing to take a risk I cannot demand that someone take it. That morality informs my political position with respect to the death penalty.

On my last I'm saying that because people willingly accept the risk of death in an activity they participate it that activity cannot be compared to an innocent being executed. Neither killing is justified but the situations are not comparable either.
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The legacy is an extension of them.

I suppose you think I'm daft or something, but I understand that there is a tiny chance that I could be wrongfully tried, condemned, and executed for something.

radcen said:
I guess I overestimated you. You always portray yourself as being one who believes that what is morally right is paramount. I guess not. You're merely a poor hypocritical schlep just like everyone else.
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And now you resort to personal attacks. Nice.

I've no idea what it is you're trying to say. The execution of heinous criminals is right, and I support it.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

radcen said:
Not even to their memory/legacy. All most people will remember is that they were executed for a crime. Very few people read disclaimers. Even fewer believe them.
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Yeah I know. For most people arrest = conviction.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Multicam said:
If there is clear evidence irrefutable if looked at objectively, logically, and rationally that someone has committed murder, rape or the like, then it makes no sense whatsoever to waste time with appeals. And it most definitely doesn't make a shred of sense to keep criminals sitting in prison for months or years if they receive the death penalty. If they're sentenced to be executed, why not complete that execution sooner rather than later? I see no valid reason not to.
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Because that's the way a system that doesn't want to get it wrong does things. We give the accused and then the convicted every possible break and yet we still get it wrong 1 time in 20.

What do you think would constitute irrefutable evidence? For me irrefutable evidence is myth. It doesn't exist.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Paleocon said:
I suppose you think I'm daft or something, but I understand that there is a tiny chance that I could be wrongfully tried, condemned, and executed for something.
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Not at all. You certainly see the things differently that I do. But maybe I'm the one with the screwy world view.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Gaius46 said:
Because that's the way a system that doesn't want to get it wrong does things. We give the accused and then the convicted every possible break and yet we still get it wrong 1 time in 20.

What do you think would constitute irrefutable evidence? For me irrefutable evidence is myth. It doesn't exist.
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I would question whether letting some guilty individuals go free is any better than punishing innocent people. And our justice system most definitely lets a lot of guilty parties go free. I'm thinking primarily of rapists here. Do some research and see just how few of them receive any penalty whatsoever, even if they're convicted. It's disgusting. And our justice systems lets guilty parties go free because they are too tolerant and too often cannot see facts for what they are.

As for irrefutable evidence and your comment on it, your view could be taken so far as to justify not even having a justice system (and I'm not saying you are doing this, I'm just saying it could be taken this far). Yes, I suppose there may not be total, complete, absolute, unquestionable, beyond the tiniest microscopic shadow of doubt proof that any criminal has committed a crime, but when you look at the emails from someone accused of murder to a murdered individual and you see death threats, or you see an accused fingerprints all over the weapon used to kill the victim and all over the victim's clothes, and you see his footprints in the victim's blood, or there are other similar pieces of evidence, it's a pretty safe bet that the accused is guilty.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

radcen said:
What's dumb is refusing to think things through. But you have made it clear that you are willing to sacrifice kids in order to get your emotional satisfaction by putting to death a molester, so we have nowhere else to go.
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I agree you have no where else to go but you are free to make up whatever you like, it simply wont be true though. Seems that only emotion here is yours and you have proven that LOL
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Gaius46 said:
Executing people is actually more expensive than keeping them in prison for life. The cases cost more to litigate, much more to appeal and death penalty inmates cost at least twice as much to house.
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How bizarre, now you are worried about saving the state some money.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

AGENT J said:
I agree you have no where else to go but you are free to make up whatever you like, it simply wont be true though. Seems that only emotion here is yours and you have proven that LOL
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Thank you for confirming my conclusion. ;) :cool:
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Southern Dad said:
How bizarre, now you are worried about saving the state some money.
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Nope nor worried about it at all. At least not in this context. Someone else posted a statement that executing people is cheaper than keeping them in jail for life. I was simply refuting that statement. It doesn't enter into the equation as far as I'm concerned though from what I read the people who do car - legislatures and governors are taking notice of that fact.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

radcen said:
Thank you for confirming my conclusion. ;) :cool:
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Youre welcome, Hey at least you can admit your posts failed shortcomings, strawmen and fallacies. Thats step one. Another good thing is theres an easy solution. In the future simply don't make stuff up and youll have better success.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

AGENT J said:
Youre welcome, Hey at least you can admit your posts failed shortcomings, strawmen and fallacies. Thats step one. Another good thing is theres an easy solution. In the future simply don't make stuff up and youll have better success.
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This is actually kind of fun. I thank you for confirming my conclusion, and you continue insisting I did/said something completely the opposite of what I did... just making it up along as you go along, almost as if you're holding both sides of a conversation with an imaginary friend.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Paleocon said:
Imoeisonment and probation can also be permanent.
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And it can be reversed if your status changes. You don't get to reverse death if you're later cleared.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Fishking said:
And it can be reversed if your status changes. You don't get to reverse death if you're later cleared.
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No human action is totally reversible, there will always be lasting effects that cannot be undone. By the same token, no act is ever totally irreversible, there's always something to be done to remedy harm done. As far as I can tell, you are arbitrarily placing the line between execution and imprisonment. Why is that specific degree of irreversibility the cutoff?
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Paleocon said:
No human action is totally reversible, there will always be lasting effects that cannot be undone. By the same token, no act is ever totally irreversible, there's always something to be done to remedy harm done. As far as I can tell, you are arbitrarily placing the line between execution and imprisonment. Why is that specific degree of irreversibility the cutoff?
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Because you can't release someone from death but you can release someone from prison. It's not really that complicated.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Fishking said:
Because you can't release someone from death but you can release someone from prison. It's not really that complicated.
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That's not reversing their punishment (having been imprisoned for however many years), it's ceasing to punish them. Letting someone out doesn't undo their incarceration.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

radcen said:
This is actually kind of fun. I thank you for confirming my conclusion, and you continue insisting I did/said something completely the opposite of what I did... just making it up along as you go along, almost as if you're holding both sides of a conversation with an imaginary friend.
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Lying wont change the fact you did exactly what I said you did LMAO

want me to prove it and further expose your lie and strawman? sure no problem. . . . .

Please present the facts you have or quote me saying my views are based on my willingness to sacrifice kids in order and get emotional satisfaction

You made that claim and it is in fact 100% a lie, strawman and fallacy . . disagree? . .prove otherwise or simply show integrity and honesty and admit your statement is made up?
Choice is yours, if you post another lie youll just end up with more egg on your face :D

soooo, ill be here waiting for that proof... :popcorn2:
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Paleocon said:
That's not reversing their punishment (having been imprisoned for however many years), it's ceasing to punish them. Letting someone out doesn't undo their incarceration.
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*sigh* Fine, you can't cease death but you can cease incarceration. This is pretty silly semantics here.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

AGENT J said:
Lying wont change the fact you did exactly what I said you did LMAO

want me to prove it and further expose your lie and strawman? sure no problem. . . . .

Please present the facts you have or quote me saying my views are based on my willingness to sacrifice kids in order and get emotional satisfaction

You made that claim and it is in fact 100% a lie, strawman and fallacy . . disagree? . .prove otherwise or simply show integrity and honesty and admit your statement is made up?
Choice is yours, if you post another lie youll just end up with more egg on your face :D

soooo, ill be here waiting for that proof... :popcorn2:
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I will get right on this and give it all the attention it deserves. Now, you make sure and stay right there with your popcorn. Don't go to bed until I return with my proof.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Fishking said:
*sigh* Fine, you can't cease death but you can cease incarceration. This is pretty silly semantics here.
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Actually execution is a one time deal. The punishment ceases once the person is dead.

The consequences of it don't, but that's a separate matter.
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Paleocon said:
The death penalty should only be imposed for serious crimes.
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Having a condom in your pocket....
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Paleocon said:
If condoms were outlawed, possession would have to be, duh.
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Would have to be a death penalty offense?
 
Re: Death Penalty – for or against?

Part of the problem us that America is blowing up with criminals, and we are plea bargaining dangerous criminals to misdemeanors to make room for more dangerous criminals.

It's time to do what you gotta do until you change the law. If you start executing these guys one a week in California, for example, criminals may get it through their thick heads that murder is frowned upon.

Detective: "Why did you shoot the clerk?" "I Don't know". The sad part is the dummy is telling the truth. That's what you are dealing with: 40 watt'ers with guns.
 
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