Day 45.....Where is the "beef"

[Vetplus40]

More pressing issues have come up. :mrgreen:




Seriously though, he does need to provide proof for these type of very serious allegations.

The fact that amidst of his allegations of wire-tapping, he has time to focus on tv show ratings. Totally bizarre behavior.

 

[Vetplus40]

Lets not pretend the President and his staff are playing some sort of three dimensional chess game here.

The bozo was taking a dump on Saturday morning, and read a wingnut article with no basis in reality that ticked him off, so he tweeted a bunch of nutty statements. Now his staff has to cover for him in the least awkward way possible.

Its just sheer incompetence, fed by wingnuttery and narcissism. Given the boob and his staff appealed to Congress to investigate him, I think he'll probably be removed right after the GOP tackles their highest priority - knocking down taxes on the rich.

According to reports, POTUS was already "ballistic" when he got to Mar-A-Lago. Between the Sessions fiasco and Arnold quitting "Celeb Apprentice", he just couldn't take it any more.

For those of us who have followed Trump for years now, this is just "par" for his "course".

 

[Vetplus40]

Wow, you guys sure don't like strong, logical voices, do ya'?

Your ridicule has no place in this forum.

Neither does your disrespect for our constitution.

 

[MaggieD]

Neither does your disrespect for our constitution.

Oh, God, I'm afraid to ask. Why do I disrespect the Constitution?

 

[Exactice]

The fact that amidst of his allegations of wire-tapping, he has time to focus on tv show ratings. Totally bizarre behavior.

1) After 45 days, where is the proof that Trump & his admins had conversations with the Russians to influence, the elections...... I want proof.... CNN... saying here is a tape showing a meeting of them saying crap about it with putin




When did we take Twitter so freaking seriously that this executive action......... I agree with a previous poster.... He was sitting on the can.... taking a dump and decided to tweet this.... Its no worse than the other BS the media throws out... so whats the difference?


With that saying..... I thought the measure of the position of POTUS, is how well they can perform the task at hand. Not what a twitter feed stats... hell I wonder if DT, is actually the one tweeting and not some goblin troll sitting under a bridge laughing....


We would love to have the nice, good looking, good morals, values, ethics, well spoken, good back ground blah blah blah blah person, sitting at the fore front, But if they dont DO crap...and or do crap that hurts more people than helps...... then whats the point.


We got a "scumbag".... but a "scumbag" that is doing work.... agree to disagree... he is still doing work..... and a lot of work at that...... I know a couple of scumbag bosses.... that people dont like... but you know what..... they run companies that employees 100+ people, keeps their wages paid and families happy..... he might be a scumbag, but they know how to do their job......

 

[Vetplus40]

Oh, God, I'm afraid to ask. Why do I disrespect the Constitution?

We have covered this topic THREE times since I joined this board. A FOURTH is of no value. You have your own view of the world around you and you are certainly entitled to it. I am just thankful that whatever method (or lack of) that you use to reach your conclusions, is one that I do not have. That said, have a great day.

 

[Napoleon]

The fact that amidst of his allegations of wire-tapping, he has time to focus on tv show ratings. Totally bizarre behavior.

It's not surprising considering his daily routine. He spends as much if not more time watching television than working.

 

[Mr Person]

Amusing that you would criticize the POTUS about undermining our democracy.

I don't see why it is somehow impossible for the Chief executive of a Democracy to undermine that Democracy.

 

[Mr Person]

The leftists have been shrieking about "The Russians!!!" since June of last year

Oh right. It's the leftists who worry about Russia. The right doesn't.

"Russia is our greatest geopolitical foe" - 2012 GOP candidate.

"Obama is weak on Russia" - 2008-2016, especially around the time Putin grabbed Crimea.







I'm not sure why you expected anyone but the choir to read past the incredibly dishonest posturing you used as an opening shot.

 

[VanceMack]

Oh right. It's the leftists who worry about Russia. The right doesn't.

"Russia is our greatest geopolitical foe" - 2012 GOP candidate.

"Obama is weak on Russia" - 2008-2016, especially around the time Putin grabbed Crimea.







I'm not sure why you expected anyone but the choir to read past the incredibly dishonest posturing you used as an opening shot.

FFS...which is it? Was Romney right and the elected rats just a bunch of mindless parrots repeating the party rhetoric or are they the evil red menace that hacked our election? When Obama was giving Medvedev a hand job promising 'Vladimir' more flexibility, was he referring to killing our missile defense in eastern Europe, losing restrictions on Russia, or just a promise to be more limber on their next date? When Putin was making Obama look inept in Syria and the Ukraine, was that out of weakness or just stupidity?

Look...this isnt my dance...its yours. I dont like Putin. I don trust Putin. I dont know if he hacked the DNC or not (and neither do you). But at least be honest. Its the rats in this country that have been on about Russia. Their motivation initially was to avoid accountability for the leaked DNC emails. Now, they are on about Russia to try to discredit Trump. I doesnt have anything to do with anything. What we HAVE seenis those same rat politicians that are in full on freak out mode about Russia were also meeting with, eating with, wining and dining with and generally associating with the same fricken people. AND they have been caught straight up lying about it. So...does it matter or doesnt it?

 

[Mr Person]

:lamo

The leftists have been shrieking about "The Russians!!!" since June of last year.

Oh right. It's the leftists who worry about Russia. The right doesn't.

"Russia is our greatest geopolitical foe" - 2012 GOP candidate.

"Obama is weak on Russia" - 2008-2016, especially around the time Putin grabbed Crimea.


I'm not sure why you expected anyone but the choir to read past the incredibly dishonest posturing you used as an opening shot.

FFS...which is it? Was Romney right and the elected rats just a bunch of mindless parrots repeating the party rhetoric or are they the evil red menace that hacked our election? When Obama was giving Medvedev a hand job promising 'Vladimir' more flexibility, was he referring to killing our missile defense in eastern Europe, losing restrictions on Russia, or just a promise to be more limber on their next date? When Putin was making Obama look inept in Syria and the Ukraine, was that out of weakness or just stupidity?

Look...this isnt my dance...its yours. I dont like Putin. I don trust Putin. I dont know if he hacked the DNC or not (and neither do you). But at least be honest. Its the rats in this country that have been on about Russia. Their motivation initially was to avoid accountability for the leaked DNC emails. Now, they are on about Russia to try to discredit Trump. I doesnt have anything to do with anything. What we HAVE seenis those same rat politicians that are in full on freak out mode about Russia were also meeting with, eating with, wining and dining with and generally associating with the same fricken people. AND they have been caught straight up lying about it. So...does it matter or doesnt it?

You just have to try to turn it around and make it about the left, eh?

You posted as if people suddenly started making noise about Russia in June, and that it was these "leftists". I pointed out the obvious dishonesty in such a post, namely, that the right made huge noises about Russia as long as Obama was in office. You want to turn that around and focused only on "leftisits", only since June of 2016.

Have you thought this through? Are you trying to say everyone is a hypocrite? Or are you really doing what you appear to be doing - whitewashing the right's hysteria about Obama/Russia relations from 2008-2016 so that you can attack the left?





I mean, even in denying that the right was acting concerned about Russia, you say this: "When Putin was making Obama look inept in Syria and the Ukraine, was that out of weakness or just stupidity?"

In one post, you complain that the left is "shrieking about Russia". In its defense, you shriek about Russia so as to blame Obama for something. It's simply unbelievable.

 

[VanceMack]

You just have to try to turn it around and make it about the left, eh?

You posted as if people suddenly started making noise about Russia in June, and that it was these "leftists". I pointed out the obvious dishonesty in such a post, namely, that the right made huge noises about Russia as long as Obama was in office. You want to turn that around and focused only on "leftisits", only since June of 2016.

Have you thought this through? Are you trying to say everyone is a hypocrite? Or are you really doing what you appear to be doing - whitewashing the right's hysteria about Obama/Russia relations from 2008-2016 so that you can attack the left?





And yet, you still post this: "When Putin was making Obama look inept in Syria and the Ukraine, was that out of weakness or just stupidity?"

In one post, you complain that the left is "shrieking about Russia". In its defense, you shriek about Russia so as to blame Obama for something. It's simply unbelievable.

Be honest. Romney called Russia the 'Number one geopolitical foe" back in 2012. What was the result? Were rat politicians 'en guarde' since? When did it suddenly become a 'relevant' topic? I'll show you.

 

[Mr Person]

Be honest. Romney called Russia the 'Number one geopolitical foe" back in 2012. What was the result? Were rat politicians 'en guarde' since? When did it suddenly become a 'relevant' topic? I'll show you.

You may not be having the argument you think you're having. Go back to the beginning. This was what I responded to:

The leftists have been shrieking about "The Russians!!!" since June of last year.

I'm not taking issue with a failure to actually do something about Russia. I'm taking issue with your pretense, a pretense that (1) it's only "leftists" making noise about Russia, (2) that they've been doing it since June, and (3) that it is wrong for them to do it.



It's wrong and dishonest on so many fronts. You must know this.

As for #1, no, it was both. The right screamed about Russia throughout Obama's term, despite not screaming through Bush's term. Now they're not screaming anymore. In fact, much of the right including Trump has actively fought the idea of so much as investigating Russian election interference and Sessions' ties with Russia. They did a 180 and went a light year further.

As for #2, well, ****ing duh, if intelligence reports start coming out that Trump's campaign has possibly improper contacts with Russia, then that's kind of when people will start talking about it.

(#2 (a): Obama was still President in June, so, umm...... )

As for #3, what on Earth could possibly be wrong about worrying about Russian interference in our elections and Trump admin lies about contacts with Russians? Both are (a) far more immediate threats to US national security than the Crimea stuff, and (b) we can actually do something about them without a hot war against Russia, unlike the Crimea stuff.




The problem you're running into is that you want to call the left hypocrites while ignoring the right's own hypocrisy, indeed, even while engaging some of it in your post where you rag on Obama for Crimea. Worse yet, you want to act like all statements about Russia had the exact same motivation. As if, what, "Russia does a thing" should cause equal alarm no matter what the thing is and no matter what how it does that thing, all so that you can call the left but only the left hypocrites?




Just stop.

:doh

 

[VanceMack]

You may not be having the argument you think you're having. Go back to the beginning. This was what I responded to:



I'm not taking issue with a failure to actually do something about Russia. I'm taking issue with your pretense, a pretense that (1) it's only "leftists" making noise about Russia, (2) that they've been doing it since June, and (3) that it is wrong for them to do it.



It's wrong and dishonest on so many fronts. You must know this.

As for #1, no, it was both. The right screamed about Russia throughout Obama's term, despite not screaming through Bush's term. Now they're not screaming anymore. In fact, much of the right including Trump has actively fought the idea of so much as investigating Russian election interference and Sessions' ties with Russia. They did a 180 and went a light year further.

As for #2, well, ****ing duh, if intelligence reports start coming out that Trump's campaign has possibly improper contacts with Russia, then that's kind of when people will start talking about it.

(#2 (a): Obama was still President in June, so, umm...... )

As for #3, what on Earth could possibly be wrong about worrying about Russian interference in our elections and Trump admin lies about contacts with Russians? Both are (a) far more immediate threats to US national security than the Crimea stuff, and (b) we can actually do something about them without a hot war against Russia, unlike the Crimea stuff.




The problem you're running into is that you want to call the left hypocrites while ignoring the right's own hypocrisy, indeed, even while engaging some of it in your post where you rag on Obama for Crimea. Worse yet, you want to act like all statements about Russia had the exact same motivation. As if, what, "Russia does a thing" should cause equal alarm no matter what the thing is and no matter what how it does that thing, all so that you can call the left but only the left hypocrites?




Just stop.

:doh

There would be nothing wrong with worrying about Russian interference if you were actually concerned about Russian interference. Hell...there would be nothing wrong with worrying about politicians speaking with Russian ambassadors....if you were actually concerned about politicians meeting with Russian ambassadors. There would be nothing wrong with being concerned about politicians misstatements or outright lies about their contact with Russia if you were actually concerned about politicians and their misstatements or outright lies about their contacts with Russia.

But you arent concerned about Russia. The rats arent concerned with Russia. They are concerned with covering their ass and deflecting from the content of the email dump and are now anxiously engaged in attacking Trump. Period. rats werent concerned about Russia prior to June 2016. Rats werent concerned about politicians in contact with Russia. Turns out a WHOLE LOT of democrats have been doing just that. And rats arent concerned about misstatements and outright lies from politicians about their contact with Russia. Just the GOP politicians.

I dont know if Russia did or didnt hack the DNC. Neither do you. I'm all for FULL investigations. I dont care who gets burned in the results. But the simple and absolute fact of the matter is that the ONLY reason leftists started ****ting themselves over Russia is because the DNC got exposed so completely. Its been a full court press coverup since June of last year.

I dont know if Russia is our number one geopolitical foe or not. I DO know that when candidate Romney was asked, the rats in this country all squawked the party rhetoric like it was rehearsed or something.

I know that on Russia...leftists have ZERO credibility. None.

 

[holbritter]

My position was and is...I dont KNOW if the Russians did or didnt hack the DNC. Similarly, I dont KNOW if Trumps allegations are correct even WITH the numerous 'experts' claiming he as and with the Obama people now soft selling their defense by claiming he MAY have been spied on but if he was it would have been legal and justified...just not ordered by Obama. I dont 'know' which side is right or wrong and I have said all along...let there be a fill blown investigation and let the chips fall where they may.

How about you? Have you been swallowing their bull**** and asking for seconds? Have you been formulating opinions based on nothing more than bias and vapor?

I would LOVE to see a full investigation to put an end to all this crap.

 

[holbritter]

Neither does your disrespect for our constitution.

That's a harsh accusation.

 

[Mr Person]

There would be nothing wrong with worrying about Russian interference if you were actually concerned about Russian interference. Hell...there would be nothing wrong with worrying about politicians speaking with Russian ambassadors....if you were actually concerned about politicians meeting with Russian ambassadors. There would be nothing wrong with being concerned about politicians misstatements or outright lies about their contact with Russia if you were actually concerned about politicians and their misstatements or outright lies about their contacts with Russia.

I am actually concerned about Russian interference. I was also concerned about Russia grabbing Crimea. However, we are capable of doing much more about one than the other. This is called "nuance". It's what certain persons use when Trump is attacked. Use it here, now that you are attacking Obama, myself, and the left.

I am not concerned about politicians talking to Russia. I am concerned about politicians lying about talking to Russia. This is called "nuance". It's what certain persons use when Trump is attacked. Use it here, now that you are attacking Obama, myself, and the left.

But you arent concerned about Russia. The rats arent concerned with Russia. They are concerned with covering their ass and deflecting from the content of the email dump and are now anxiously engaged in attacking Trump. Period. rats werent concerned about Russia prior to June 2016. Rats werent concerned about politicians in contact with Russia. Turns out a WHOLE LOT of democrats have been doing just that. And rats arent concerned about misstatements and outright lies from politicians about their contact with Russia. Just the GOP politicians.

See my earlier posts about how you are posting lies and hypocrisy to attack the entire left for the actions of certain left politicians, without considering behavior on the right.

I dont know if Russia did or didnt hack the DNC. Neither do you. I'm all for FULL investigations. I dont care who gets burned in the results. But the simple and absolute fact of the matter is that the ONLY reason leftists started ****ting themselves over Russia is because the DNC got exposed so completely. Its been a full court press coverup since June of last year. I dont know if Russia is our number one geopolitical foe or not. I DO know that when candidate Romney was asked, the rats in this country all squawked the party rhetoric like it was rehearsed or something. I know that on Russia...leftists have ZERO credibility. None.

You don't know if Russia hacked the DNC? Meaning what, no personal knowledge? Well, I suppose you don't have any personal knowledge of whether we landed on the moon either. Lack of personal knowledge isn't an argument, as you well know.

If you really were for "full investigations", then you'd be resolutely against the Trump admin for choosing the initial reaction of obstruct & deny. (See my next post, post #43).

As for your continued focus on "leftists", see my earlier posts about how you are posting lies and hypocrisy to attack the entire left for the actions of certain left politicians, without considering equal and/or worse behavior on the right. The specific subjects have varied, but it's completely dishonest to claim nobody was making a bunch of noise about Russia until "leftists" (that word again) did it in 06/16

 

[Mr Person]

I would LOVE to see a full investigation to put an end to all this crap.

Me too.

And the sick thing is that there wouldn't be any "crap", whether justified or not, unless the immediate reaction from the Trump admin was resist and deny.

 

[holbritter]

Me too.

And the sick thing is that there wouldn't be any "crap", whether justified or not, unless the immediate reaction from the Trump admin was resist and deny.

In all fairness, if the anti-Trumpers didn't always come out with guns blazing every other day, there might not be so much resist and deny. Just take a breath before blowing up the headlines every day. Just saying.

 

[Linc]

I would LOVE to see a full investigation to put an end to all this crap.

I agree. It's time for trump's lies, behavior and insanity to be put on trial .

 

[Mr Person]

I would LOVE to see a full investigation to put an end to all this crap.

Me too.

And the sick thing is that there wouldn't be any "crap", whether justified or not, unless the immediate reaction from the Trump admin was resist and deny.

In all fairness, if the anti-Trumpers didn't always come out with guns blazing every other day, there might not be so much resist and deny. Just take a breath before blowing up the headlines every day. Just saying.

In further fairness, they'd be less inclined to if (a) Trump and pro-Trumpers also put the guns down, and (b) Trump didn't have a track record of constantly bull*****ing. As for (b), we've already passed the point where his spokeswoman (Conway) had to tell us that we shouldn't listen to his words, but instead look to what he means in his heart.

You must understand that for the first time in perhaps a lifetime, it looks to many on the left like a legitimately unhinged person won the Presidency. I mean.....we're barely even fighting over policies. Our arguments under Trump have generally started with a dispute over what in the precise **** he was even saying in the first place. That's not good. Bigly not good.

 

[Linc]

In all fairness, if the anti-Trumpers didn't always come out with guns blazing every other day, there might not be so much resist and deny. Just take a breath before blowing up the headlines every day. Just saying.

Whose guns were blazing Sat. AM when trump stabbed himself in the back ?

 

[Mr Person]

Whose guns were blazing Sat. AM when trump stabbed himself in the back ?

I should've mentioned that too.




The current volume is at 11 because Trump bloody well ****ing put it there by announcing - by TWITTER of all things - that POTUS Barack Obama personally had him wire-tapped.

And then offered no evidence, entering explicit silence on Monday.







What is DP filled with on Monday? It's filled with Trump supporters attacking "leftists" in every last thread. Go figure.

I guess I must be evil. I'm slightly liberal in my own viewpoint - when you listen to my actual policy positions - but apparently I too am just an evil conspiratorial leftist because I want to know why in the precise **** the last President was explicitly accused of illegal wiretapping without the slightest shred of evidence to back it up.



_________________________
EDIT: I am NOT jabbing at anyone specifically in this thread. It might have looked that way. I'm referring, in general, to the way myself and a number of others seem to be addressed in recent days, on the subject at question.

If anything, I trust that I am excused, since what I respond to is leftists-this/leftists-that type stuff.

 

[VanceMack]

I am actually concerned about Russian interference. I was also concerned about Russia grabbing Crimea. However, we are capable of doing much more about one than the other. This is called "nuance". It's what certain persons use when Trump is attacked. Use it here, now that you are attacking Obama, myself, and the left.

I am not concerned about politicians talking to Russia. I am concerned about politicians lying about talking to Russia. This is called "nuance". It's what certain persons use when Trump is attacked. Use it here, now that you are attacking Obama, myself, and the left.



See my earlier posts about how you are posting lies and hypocrisy to attack the entire left for the actions of certain left politicians, without considering behavior on the right.




You don't know if Russia hacked the DNC? Meaning what, no personal knowledge? Well, I suppose you don't have any personal knowledge of whether we landed on the moon either. Lack of personal knowledge isn't an argument, as you well know.

If you really were for "full investigations", then you'd be resolutely against the Trump admin for choosing the initial reaction of obstruct & deny. (See my next post, post #43).

As for your continued focus on "leftists", see my earlier posts about how you are posting lies and hypocrisy to attack the entire left for the actions of certain left politicians, without considering equal and/or worse behavior on the right. The specific subjects have varied, but it's completely dishonest to claim nobody was making a bunch of noise about Russia until "leftists" (that word again) did it in 06/16

Yes...I will continue to focus on 'leftists' because leftists have zero credibility. I suspect you know that. You cannot ignore the REALITY that until June of last year, no one said **** about 'the Russians' and you cannot ignore the reality that when Romney called them out as our number one geopolitical foe, leftists trip[ed over themselves to sqawk the standard party line. I mean...you COULD deny all that stuff...if there wasnt so much video evidence to the contrary.

But hey...like I said...I'm ALL FOR a complete investigation.

 

[holbritter]

I should've mentioned that too.




The current volume is at 11 because Trump bloody well ****ing put it there by announcing - by TWITTER of all things - that POTUS Barack Obama personally had him wire-tapped.

And then offered no evidence, entering explicit silence on Monday.







What is DP filled with on Monday? It's filled with Trump supporters attacking "leftists" in every last thread. Go figure.

I guess I must be evil. I'm slightly liberal in my own viewpoint - when you listen to my actual policy positions - but apparently I too am just an evil conspiratorial leftist because I want to know why in the precise **** the last President was explicitly accused of illegal wiretapping without the slightest shred of evidence to back it up.



_________________________
EDIT: I am NOT jabbing at anyone specifically in this thread. It might have looked that way. I'm referring, in general, to the way myself and a number of others seem to be addressed in recent days, on the subject at question.

If anything, I trust that I am excused, since what I respond to is leftists-this/leftists-that type stuff.

I don't agree with the attacking of each other. I came to this board to "debate" and to learn something. I did post a "lefty" post once, for which I apologize. I do tend to defend myself though, and I don't apologize for that. There are some around here that will just jump in your **** if you try and present other viewpoints.

I don't understand why there can't be a civil exchange of viewpoints without all the "show me your proof!" And trying to twist what is being said all the time.

Ah, but in a perfect world!