David Hogg to Ineffective Moderates (1 Viewer)

[Dans La Lune]

Most of the sources are from wikipedia, which has a left-wing bias.

Truth has a left-wing bias. The evidence is further that the Nazis and Fascists immediately targeted the Left as their main enemy.

 

[Dans La Lune]

There's is plenty to read supporting the idea that Mussolini was progressive fiscally:

Mussolini and fascism are both left wing

Mussolini was the father of fascism. Lets look at some facts about Mussolini: Mussolini was an Atheist: He believed that science had proven there was no god, and that the historical Jesus was ignorant and mad. He considered religion a disease of the psyche, and accused Christianity of...

debatepolitics.com

The worst combination of any two ideologies is left-wing economic populism under the guise of right-wing social populism. That's basically what Trump tries to do, but the veneer of economic populism is so thin that it can only be sustained by a Cult of Personality.

 

[Dans La Lune]

I actually don't think Joe Manchin is the best Dems can do in West Virginia. It was a miracle that he got elected as many times as he did, and if he had run for reelection in 2024 he probably would have lost. Dems probably need someone to Manchin's right, to win in West Virginia.

Or at least, someone who had more independence from the national brand. Senate Dems gave Manchin some leeway, but they twisted his arm when they needed his vote, and that probably made West Virginians rightly worried that whatever his personal political views, a vote for him was a vote for at least some of the national Democratic agenda.

Progressive policies are popular in West Virginia, just like in most red states.

 

[Dans La Lune]

That's fine, have all the Sherrod Browns you want in places like Ohio.


Manchin miraculously got elected in West Virginia. Whereas the Bernie Bro who ran against Shelley Moore Capito in 2020 lost 70-27. They aren't buying what you're selling. They're barely buying what Joe Manchin was selling.

Bernie beat Hillary in West Virginia so convincingly that it rattled her entire campaign.

 

[Gatsby]

Progressive policies are popular in West Virginia, just like in most red states.

Prove it. Get a Bernie Bro elected to the US Senate from West Virginia (or any other deep red state). Leftists tried running a Bernie Bro there in 2020, with the enthusiastic support of the Justice Democrats, and she fell flat on her face and lost by an embarrassing 70-27 margin.

But OK, sure, maybe she was just a bad candidate. Fair enough, that's Strike One. Try again with the Bernie Bro of your dreams in West Virginia. You don't even need to worry about the national Democratic Party interfering in the primary, because they regard a WV Senate race as hopeless now that Manchin is gone. So have at it.

If your agenda is so popular in deep red states, then get a Bernie Bro elected in one of them. Any of them. Prove your case with one or two examples, *then* worry about expanding your strategy nationally.

 

[markdc]

I don't think that progressives ever "had" the Democratic Party. The McGovern candidacy was about as close as it got.

Yeah, and look how that turned out.

Mark

 

[markdc]

FDR served four terms.

Frankie was operating in a VERY different time and a VERY different America.

Mark

 

[markdc]

run AOC run!

Be careful what you wish for.

Democrats wanted Trump to be the GOP nominee in 2016 and 2024 out of the belief that he would be the easiest to beat.

Mark

 

[markdc]

If you're on the correct side of history, you'll never have to ask for an apology. Right, Kristol?

Billy Kristol is a vile, disgusting NeoCon warmonger who never saw a country he didn’t want to invade.

Fuk him.

Mark

 

[markdc]

He's a Sandy Hook survivor turned political activist, turned DNC Vice Chair. You really have your pulse on the activist wing of the movement.

The Hogg survived Sandy Hook? If so, then he’s a lot younger than I thought.

Mark

 

[markdc]

Where does the conservative movement go post-Trump?

There will be no “post-Trump." God is going to make it so that he lives forever, and Republicans will keep running him for prez.

Mark

 

[markdc]

If we are to properly oppose fascism then the leaders of the movement cannot be gun grabbers.

Sorry for what you went through during Parkland, David, but you ain't it.

Yeah, guns can come in handy when dealing with a Fascist. Conservatives have known that for decades.

Mark

 

[Dans La Lune]

Prove it. Get a Bernie Bro elected to the US Senate from West Virginia (or any other deep red state). Leftists tried running a Bernie Bro there in 2020, with the enthusiastic support of the Justice Democrats, and she fell flat on her face and lost by an embarrassing 70-27 margin.

I just did. If the policies are popular, and they are, that is the proof.

But OK, sure, maybe she was just a bad candidate. Fair enough, that's Strike One. Try again with the Bernie Bro of your dreams in West Virginia.

I'm not sure what you don't understand. They polled West Virginians across the spectrum and the Build Back Better policies were overwhelmingly popular.

You don't even need to worry about the national Democratic Party interfering in the primary, because they regard a WV Senate race as hopeless now that Manchin is gone. So have at it.

If your agenda is so popular in deep red states, then get a Bernie Bro elected in one of them. Any of them. Prove your case with one or two examples, *then* worry about expanding your strategy nationally.

Progressive Policies Are Popular Policies - Public Citizen

At Public Citizen, we pride ourselves on doing what we think is right, not what others say is “reasonable.” We…

www.citizen.org

• The policy most associated with the “progressive” agenda, Medicare for All, earns 70% support among Americans, despite relentless trash talking by “serious” people.
• Americans are united in demanding aggressive action to slash prescription drug prices. Ninety percent of all Americans – and 91% of Republican voters – want to empower Medicare to negotiate drug prices (a policy that could easily reduce prices by 40% or more). Nonetheless, Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives are split over an aggressive plan to empower Medicare to negotiate and authorize generic competition if drug companies refuse to agree to reasonable prices. Democratic opponents of the bolder measure want to appear “reasonable” – yet nine out of 10 Republicans support a more audacious approach!
• Two-thirds of all Americans favor expanding Social Security – not just maintaining it, but expanding it. Republicans favor the concept by a 2-1 margin.
• A strong majority of Americans favor doubling the minimum wage to a living wage of $15 an hour. Seven out of 10 Republican voters favor raising the minimum wage.
• Three-quarters of voters favor breaking up the Big Banks by reinstating the Glass-Steagall law that separated commercial banking from more speculative activity like investment banking. Two-thirds of Republican voters favor that approach.
• Three-quarters of Americans say the tax system favors the rich and has too many loopholes. Three-quarters say that the wealthiest and large corporations should pay more in taxes. More than six in 10 Republicans agree. Sixty percent of Americans favor a wealth tax on those with more than $50 million in assets.

If you can't win on popular policies...

 

[Gatsby]

I just did. If the policies are popular, and they are, that is the proof.



I'm not sure what you don't understand. They polled West Virginians across the spectrum and the Build Back Better policies were overwhelmingly popular.

Progressive Policies Are Popular Policies - Public Citizen

At Public Citizen, we pride ourselves on doing what we think is right, not what others say is “reasonable.” We…

www.citizen.org

• The policy most associated with the “progressive” agenda, Medicare for All, earns 70% support among Americans, despite relentless trash talking by “serious” people.
• Americans are united in demanding aggressive action to slash prescription drug prices. Ninety percent of all Americans – and 91% of Republican voters – want to empower Medicare to negotiate drug prices (a policy that could easily reduce prices by 40% or more). Nonetheless, Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives are split over an aggressive plan to empower Medicare to negotiate and authorize generic competition if drug companies refuse to agree to reasonable prices. Democratic opponents of the bolder measure want to appear “reasonable” – yet nine out of 10 Republicans support a more audacious approach!
• Two-thirds of all Americans favor expanding Social Security – not just maintaining it, but expanding it. Republicans favor the concept by a 2-1 margin.
• A strong majority of Americans favor doubling the minimum wage to a living wage of $15 an hour. Seven out of 10 Republican voters favor raising the minimum wage.
• Three-quarters of voters favor breaking up the Big Banks by reinstating the Glass-Steagall law that separated commercial banking from more speculative activity like investment banking. Two-thirds of Republican voters favor that approach.
• Three-quarters of Americans say the tax system favors the rich and has too many loopholes. Three-quarters say that the wealthiest and large corporations should pay more in taxes. More than six in 10 Republicans agree. Sixty percent of Americans favor a wealth tax on those with more than $50 million in assets.

If you can't win on popular policies...

The voters don't elect an issue position to be their senator, they elect an actual candidate. Get an actual Bernie Bro elected to the actual Senate seat from West Virginia running on those policies. Prove that it's possible before you go national, before you start challenging Democrats who have proven they can actually win their seats.

And for what it's worth, I actually agree that a candidate running on some of that platform *could* be competitive in West Virginia, if he/she was conservative on most everything else. Probably not all of them, but at least a candidate who supported the more moderate ideas on your list like negotiating prescription drug prices, raising the minimum wage, financial regulation, and raising taxes on the wealthy.

 

[Moderate Right]

Time to get on board. Progressives are taking the party back.

Carville and Cuomo are having a meltdown and it's beautiful. Their services are no longer required.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm, the progressive wing went so batshit crazy it elected Trump. Voters WANT moderates. But, I'm glad your side is to blind to see this.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Just hook this to my veins, please. More Hogg. THIS is a strategy.

 

[Dans La Lune]

The voters don't elect an issue position to be their senator, they elect an actual candidate. Get an actual Bernie Bro elected to the actual Senate seat from West Virginia running on those policies. Prove that it's possible before you go national, before you start challenging Democrats who have proven they can actually win their seats.

And for what it's worth, I actually agree that a candidate running on some of that platform *could* be competitive in West Virginia, if he/she was conservative on most everything else. Probably not all of them, but at least a candidate who supported the more moderate ideas on your list like negotiating prescription drug prices, raising the minimum wage, financial regulation, and raising taxes on the wealthy.

Right-wing culture trash only resonates when your party offers nothing else. For example, you offer nothing so you have to throw trans people under the bus.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm, the progressive wing went so batshit crazy it elected Trump. Voters WANT moderates. But, I'm glad your side is to blind to see this.

That's why Hillary Clinton failed while running a centrist campaign. That's why Kamala failed while running a centrist campaign.

 

[Dans La Lune]

"Carville has not won an election since before I was born..." - David Hogg

*mic drop*

 

[aociswundumho]

That's why Hillary Clinton failed while running a centrist campaign. That's why Kamala failed while running a centrist campaign.

If they had went full commie progressive, they would have gotten destroyed, just like McGovern did 50 years ago.

Progressivism wasn't popular even before they added all of the woke shit on top.

I would also add that McGovern got a taste of his own medicine when he tried to open a business in my progressive state:

In 1988, seven years after leaving the Senate, McGovern took over the lease of the Stratford Inn in Connecticut. For the first time, this former politician experienced what it meant to operate a business while obeying government dictates and shouldering business taxes designed by people with little firsthand experience in the marketplace. In the end, the inn failed, leaving McGovern with many observations about the disconnect between politicians' dreams and business owners' realities.

In a 1992 Wall Street Journal op-ed titled "A Politician's Dream Is a Businessman's Nightmare," McGovern recounted how, as a senator, he didn't realize just how costly regulatory compliance is. He was unaware of how well-intentioned regulations often produce bad outcomes, how taxes dampen investment, and how mandates make it harder to innovate or survive, especially during recessions.

Progressive politicians are regulating their own projects into oblivion

George McGovern, the Democratic Party's 1972 presidential nominee, was a liberal icon. During many years in political office, including as a U.S. senator

reason.com

 

[Dans La Lune]

Supreme Court upholds Evers’ 400-year education veto

A split state Supreme Court today upheld Dem Gov. Tony Evers’ veto in the 2023-25 budget that wrote into state law for the next four centuries annual increases in how much schools can spend per student.

www.wispolitics.com

Conversely, there's Andrew Cuomo, Mayor Adams, Carville, who think this is too far left.

 

[Dans La Lune]

If they had went full commie progressive, they would have gotten destroyed, just like McGovern did 50 years ago.

Progressivism wasn't popular even before they added all of the woke shit on top.

I would also add that McGovern got a taste of his own medicine when he tried to open a business in my progressive state:

If conservative policies were popular, they'd run on it. They don't. Why don't they run on cutting Social Security and Medicare? Why don't they run on tax cuts for the wealthy?

Your ideology sucks, and it can't win elections without culture war bullshit AND acquiescence from the centrist democrats AND billions of dollars in corrupt campaign funding.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Also, polling shows that Bernie would have beaten Trump in 2016. I guess we'll never know in this timeline.

 

[Gatsby]

Right-wing culture trash only resonates when your party offers nothing else. For example, you offer nothing so you have to throw trans people under the bus.

See, there's the bait and switch. You started with perfectly sensible, mainstream, popular positions that might actually work in West Virginia, like raising the minimum wage. But you don't actually care about that, so within one post you moved right into talking about what you actually care about: Men playing in women's sports.

Again, prove it. Less talk and more action. You go right ahead and nominate your favorite Bernie Bro for a WV Senate seat on a platform of sex changes for minors, and let me know how it goes. Maybe I'm wrong and more sex changes for minors are exactly what the good people of West Virginia have been demanding from their politicians. Take your case to the voters and prove it. The national Democrats won't even fight you on a Senate primary since they regard the general election as hopeless.

 

[Dans La Lune]

See, there's the bait and switch. You started with perfectly sensible, mainstream, popular positions that might actually work in West Virginia, like raising the minimum wage. But you don't actually care about that, so within one post you moved right into talking about what you actually care about: Men playing in women's sports.

No, YOU care about the handful of people "RUINING OUR SPORTS!!!!"

I don't care, because it's not actually a problem. Prove that its a problem. I say you need to throw trans people under the bus because you don't want to reform an economic system that benefits neoliberal shills.

Again, prove it. Less talk and more action. You go right ahead and nominate your favorite Bernie Bro for a WV Senate seat on a platform of sex changes for minors

Why do they have to campaign on sex changes for minors? No one advocates that. People don't want to undergo unnecessary medical treatment. People advocate for being able to seek adequate healthcare without right-wing politicians like Louie Gohmert opining on what's best for them, their children, their family. The only way your argument works if you concede the right-wing predicate that experts don't know what they're talking about, that doctors are just trying to cut mutilate genitalia for dollars. Which puts you in the RFK Jr. / Anti-Vaxx freak category.

, and let me know how it goes. Maybe I'm wrong and more sex changes for minors are exactly what the good people of West Virginia have been demanding from their politicians. Take your case to the voters and prove it. The national Democrats won't even fight you on a Senate primary since they regard the general election as hopeless.

"Sex change for minors" is what a capitulating and submissive right-wing hack would say that progressives need to run on to prove they are popular. Like when people were advocating for civil rights, they had to mandate that every white women marry a black man. And when gays were advocating for marriage rights, they had to force cocks down everyone's throat.

What a stupid caricature of political discourse. Basically for the consumption of babies.