Cultural Appropriation

[AmNat]

Do you think east and south Asian cultures appreciate the appropriation of the swastika?

Did they complain about it?

 

[Michael Cole]

Cultural appropriation is a particularly complex topic in our society with our history of segregation, where all culture besides white culture was considered inferior and verboten. One thinks back to blackface entertainers. Rock and roll seems like a massive appropriation of the blues. It would be a mistake to apply hard and fast rules to the appropriateness of appropriating black culture into white music. Yes, whites tended to profit much more off of it, but it also exposed black music to a wider audience. So it isn't all bad. Black music, too, could change. Motown is a good example - black music infused with white slickness, giving us a wonderful sound.

There was a time when popular music gad regional differences to be appreciated and enjoyed. Mass communication has changed this, for better and worse, blending all together. I like to think of it as always evolving.

Motown was founded by Berry Gordy. The slickness was all black.

The blues was expanded on, not appropriated. Black Chicago blues artists electrified the sound (appropriated from the Delta?), and American and British white blues bands further advanced the genre in the early '60s.

 

[soap box]

As I said this is a complex and subjective issue. I don't claim expertise.
I live in the US so that is my experience. I also mentioned the issue of it in the arts. Music has a long history of white artists claiming American music as their own. I'm not saying Elvis should not have borrowed and I'm not even saying he shouldn't have been called "the king of rock n roll" but credit should have been given to those who came before him and created the foundation for the music he played. I am not in favor of only allowing certain people to play certain music but I do think that when we record and perform music with a rich cultural heritage we ought to honor the music properly by crediting those who are responsible for much of its foundation.

I don't think policing others is ever the answer but I do think being mindful of the above is a good thing.

Ok , now I understand your point better, and I agree about the part I bolded. Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton are just 2 Brits who have similar debts to black musicians before them.

Usually to me , I see actions and words that are so much done as appreciation, and positive. I hardly see much appropriation. Hard to define, and I agree it's subjective ,but we know it when we see it.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Some people just like to whine and cry and complain to cause problems.

The name for the Cleveland Indians was literally created to mock the fact that they had a Native American player. It has nothing to do with respect.

You'll have to provide some documentation for that story. Hard to believe anyone names a team after something or someone they don't like.

 

[Integrityrespec]

It's a made up topic for leftists to get angry about because they are running out of real injustices to be made about. The reality is, any culture that exists today has taken from other cultures throughout the generations. It's a guarantee.

The only thing I can think of that would come close would be those who do something that's purposefully intended to mock another culture, but even then, it's not appropriation as they aren't actually taking it for their own use. I mean...I guess we could add political pandering in there, like when Hillary pretended to have hot sauce in her purse to pander to Black votes or when this happened:
View attachment 67362730

Talk about a photo op for nothing more than political gain. Purely staged.

 

[soap box]

Some people just like to whine and cry and complain to cause problems.

You'll have to provide some documentation for that story. Hard to believe anyone names a team after something or someone they don't like.

Louis Sockalexis – Society for American Baseball Research

sabr.org

Excuse me, I couldn't help but overhear,

 

[maquiscat]

I’ll answer the broader question when I have time to type a longer response, but first…

Explain what is happening in this sentence to me please lol.

You're newer or have not been in many threads with me. I'm poly and have a husband and two wives. We've been a quad for over 5 years now.

 

[soap box]

Some people just like to whine and cry and complain to cause problems.

You'll have to provide some documentation for that story. Hard to believe anyone names a team after something or someone they don't like.

It sounds like they liked them at the time-
March 19, 1897. Manager Patsy Tebeau was impressed with the Native American ballplayer, and the local sportswriters were so enamored of the exotic newcomer that a headline in the Cleveland Plain Dealer on March 20 referred to the team as “Tebeau’s Indians.” By the end of the month, the Spiders’ moniker was virtually forgotten, and the Cleveland club became the Indians. On March 27, the Plain Dealer stated, “The Indians have a spring schedule which is bound to give them good, hard work.”

 

[maquiscat]

Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton are just 2 Brits who have similar debts to black musicians before them.

And they may well have acknowledged those debts, but that doesn't mean it makes it into the common knowledge.

 

[Gatsby]

Cultural appropriation is a stupid concept. Society would never advance if people didn't adopt the ideas, foods, music, fashion, and art from other cultures. That's the whole point of having diversity of thought and a melting pot.

As long as someone isn't adopting a culture in order to mock it, I can't understand why anyone would be offended.

 

[Questerr]

Some people just like to whine and cry and complain to cause problems.

You'll have to provide some documentation for that story. Hard to believe anyone names a team after something or someone they don't like.

The Oklahoma Sooners are proof that logic is wrong.

 

[Roadvirus]

What exactly is cultural appropriation?

A catchphrase created by some Leftist nitwit to be used to shame White people and cause division.

 

[Court Jester]

Modern left progressive whining about 'cultural appropriation is merely another level of the wilful attempt to create victimhood; something to help herd votes their way.

Because if the left and the so called minority activists really gave a damn about appropriating other people's cultures, then some of those 'people of color' would need to abandon wearing shoes, pants, or using toilet paper to wipe their asses. Because I see a hell of a lot more "people of color" appropriating European culture than the other way around.

Next time you see an Asian person using a fork and spoon go up to them and scold them for appropriating someone else's culture. See how that goes.

 

[ataraxia]

Next time you see an Asian person using a fork and spoon go up to them and scold them for appropriating someone else's culture. See how that goes.

Or maybe next time an Asian catches someone writing on paper, using gunpowder, or eating ice cream or pasta?

 

[Atreus21]

What exactly is cultural appropriation? How does it differ from cultural absorption? Is there any culture that has not engaged in either of the two? Does the culture itself get to deny something as cultural appropriation?

These questions have come up many times, and I don't recall if I have ever seen them directly answered. They could have of course, and I just missed the threads.

One of the things that came up in a recent conversation with my husband and one of our wives was that Chinese food in the US is not the food that is eaten in China. There is a TED talk out there (I'll add it if anyone is really interested) where a woman talks about this. Among other points she brought up the dish Chop Suey. IIRC, it more or less translates into "this and that". She noted that going to China and asking for chop suey would be like a Chinese coming here and saying, "I heard that you had this really great dish I want to try called Leftovers." It was also noted that chinese food in other countries, such a Spain, is different than not only China, but also in the US. So here is the trick question. Given that these dishes actually originate in either the US or Spain, respectively, if a Chinese person were to open a restaurant in China serving those styles of food, would that be cultural appropriation of US or Spanish culture? Conversely, are any Chinese who are in the US guilty of cultural appropriation when they open these restaurants that are not authentic Chinese dishes?

With regards to the last question, we have seen examples of where a person has been accused of cultural appropriation only to have people of the supposedly appropriated culture come out and deny the appropriation.
Here is an example, albeit a bit indirectly:

There there was this controversy:

And then there is the Moana controversy where a Brigham Young Professor, whose name I can't recall, claimed cultural appropriation on the film and Disney, and when it was pointed out that the people of the culture itself approved and helped with the film, stated that they didn't know what was good for them or something to that effect. I'm trying to find that article, but right now I am getting more hits of a different professor there who recently released a study about the princess films having good long term effects. My Google skills are weak, so if anyone knows of that incident, feel free to throw it up.

So can someone from outside a culture claim cultural appropriation when those inside say it is not?

And as a final question, can others culturally appropriate from US or west European cultures? Got any examples?

It's white progressives being annoyed at other white people for doing thing they find annoying.

 

[maquiscat]

I'm kind of surprised that our more liberal members have not found their way here yet. I guess they don't want direct questions.

 

[justabubba]

I'm kind of surprised that our more liberal members have not found their way here yet. I guess they don't want direct questions.

represented
post 7

i suspect the actual problem is the topic

you have presented a solution in search of a problem
the problem is, there is no actual problem

 

[j brown's body]

Motown was founded by Berry Gordy. The slickness was all black.

The blues was expanded on, not appropriated. Black Chicago blues artists electrified the sound (appropriated from the Delta?), and American and British white blues bands further advanced the genre in the early '60s.

It was all black, but produced with a white, as well as black, audience in mind.

 

[j brown's body]

Modern left progressive whining about 'cultural appropriation is merely another level of the wilful attempt to create victimhood; something to help herd votes their way.

Because if the left and the so called minority activists really gave a damn about appropriating other people's cultures, then some of those 'people of color' would need to abandon wearing shoes, pants, or using toilet paper to wipe their asses. Because I see a hell of a lot more "people of color" appropriating European culture than the other way around.

Next time you see an Asian person using a fork and spoon go up to them and scold them for appropriating someone else's culture. See how that goes.

When a minority group is absorbed into the dominant culture, it's known as assimilation

In the late 1960s, in the wake of passing the civil, voting and housing rights bills, many white allies were miffed to see blacks wearing afros and dashikis. They figured that since we were all now legally equal, they should start dressing and acting white.

 

[j brown's body]

The cultural iceberg - kind of interesting.

 

[j brown's body]

And they may well have acknowledged those debts, but that doesn't mean it makes it into the common knowledge.

Acknowledging those debts is important.

 

[j brown's body]

Did they complain about it?

Would it matter?

 

[NewfieMom]

Potatoes originated in South America and were only brought to Europe by the Spanish when they came upon it. So Irish potatoes are new. And German potato dishes. And our mashed potatoes; potatoes au gratin; and scalloped potatoes. The same is true of the tomato. If you think tomato sauce on spaghetti and pizza is Italian, the Italians were very late to getting the tomato. Foods spread. Ideas spread. Wherever people go, their ways go with them.

 

[maquiscat]

Acknowledging those debts is important.

I agree. I'm just saying that their doing so doesn't automatically mean it becomes wide spread knowledge.

 

[maquiscat]

represented
post 7

i suspect the actual problem is the topic

you have presented a solution in search of a problem
the problem is, there is no actual problem

Allow me to rephrase. I was thinking more along the line of the SJW subset, who push the idea that such appropriation is regularly occuring.