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Cuba Announces Integration into Chinese Payment System

Grand Mal

Russian warship, go f*** yourself!
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Is this reminiscent of Saddam Hussein accepting Euros for oil?

"HAVANA TIMES – Oscar Perez-Oliva Fraga, Cuba’s Minister of Foreign Trade and Foreign Investment, informed government media on September 7, 2025, that the island’s banks will integrate into the Cross-Border Interbank Payment System (CIPS). The system is designed by China as an alternative to SWIFT for conducting international payments in Chinese yuan, and that the use of this currency will increase in transactions between the two nations."

Cuba Announces Integration into Chinese Payment System - Havana Times

This is not the first time the government has boasted of strong Cuba-China cooperation, only for the Chinese government to later backtrack.
havanatimes.org

I wonder what might be the effect if more and more countries use the Chinese yuan for international payments.
 

You misunderstand. They are begging for money. Their economy is non-functional since the USSR collapsed that subsidized them by supplying them anything for relatively useless stuff.
 
JohnRawls said:
You misunderstand. They are begging for money. Their economy is non-functional since the USSR collapsed that subsidized them by supplying them anything for relatively useless stuff.
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Really. Can you point to the part of the story that I missed?
 
Grand Mal said:
Really. Can you point to the part of the story that I missed?
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Cuba has nothing to give for Yuan. They don't have sugar or tobacco anymore like they used to. So they are simply trying to get favour with Chinese to get free money that they will never return. They don't even have property or anything to give to the Chinese. I mean the Chinese might want to build a military base or nuclear silos on Cuba but you know, we have been there and we have done that....
 
This is all part of the great American plan concerning Cuba. The plan is brilliant. The United States' embargo against the communist Cuban government was formalized in 1962, and strengthened over the years because communism is bad. China was granted Most Favored Nation trading status in 2001 because communism is good. In 2005 Bernie Sanders and 61 legislators sponsored a bill to revoke China's Permanent Normal Trade Relations because communism is bad. Then trade relations with China became just a bit complicated with tariffs and trade deficit worries.

In the meantime, Vietnam was granted Most Favored Nation Trade status because communism is good. Restrictions on trade with, and travel to, Cuba continued to increase because communism is bad. Clinton tried to ease restrictions and increase relations with Cuba because communism is...mnyeh. Trump has again tightened restrictions because...

This effective, consistent policy has created the Cuba we see now.

Good job us.
 
Grand Mal said:
. . . I wonder what might be the effect if more and more countries use the Chinese yuan for international payments.
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In a global context, the Cuban GDP is insignificant and Cuba conducting Trade with China using the Yuan as the instrument of trade is equally insignificant.

If India, Russia, or UAE get on board with using CIPS for trade, then yeah, that would be a game changer.
 
No, I asked for something from the report.
This isn't about getting something from China, it's about countries leaving the SWIFT payment network and using the Chinese- based Cross-border Interbank Payment System (CIPS). Countries and banks use the yuan as the currency in international payments under that system.
 
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There's banks and intiutions in 109 countries using the system now.

Cross-Border Interbank Payment System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The Cross-border Interbank Payment System (CIPS) is a Chinese payment system that offers clearing and settlement services for its participants in cross-border renminbi (RMB) payments and trade. CIPS is backed by the People's Bank of China and was launched in 2015 as part of a policy effort to internationalize the use of China’s currency."

"In 2022, CIPS processed around 96.7 trillion yuan (US$14.03 trillion), with about 1427 financial institutions in 109 countries and regions having connected to the system."
 

It doesn't matter. System by itself just reduces the chance of sanctions in that regard, otherwise it is irrelevant where and what system you conduct trade in. If you are trying to imply that it will help overtake dollar, euro and other Western currencies then you are delusional.

The countries trade in Euros, Dollars etc not because somebody is forcing them but because it is beneficial to them. They have the ability to trade right now in other currencies like rubbles or yuan or rupees but they don't do that for obvious reasons that those currencies are unstable, government controlled, not freely converted, impossible to exit the country/cash out and so on.

This is also the reason why some kind of BRICs currency is pure fantasy when Brazil, Russia, China, India all run unconvertable government controlled currency with heavy restrictions on market exit.
 

They can't. Rupee, Yuan, Ruble are not currencies like the dollar or euro. They are not freely traded or convertable, they are under direct government control with heavy market restriction on capital outflows. It is a pure fantasy of some sort that any of them will give that power away for a payment system or a single currency.
 
"In 2022, CIPS processed around 96.7 trillion yuan (US$14.03 trillion), with about 1427 financial institutions in 109 countries and regions having connected to the system."
 
Grand Mal said:
There's banks and intiutions in 109 countries using the system now. . . .
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That is alarming.

I've been predicting for years (as well as many others of course) that at some point in time, there will come a currency that will replace the US Dollar as the world reserve currency, and it looks like that is happening.

I incorrectly predicted that the new currency would be backed with gold, and not be fiat.
 
Grand Mal said:
"In 2022, CIPS processed around 96.7 trillion yuan (US$14.03 trillion), with about 1427 financial institutions in 109 countries and regions having connected to the system."
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Okay and? Most of those are internal transactions in China and it means that they processed basically 7 trillion worth of money because every transactions is basically 1 out 1 in so its double. That is not much.

Swift processes 150-160 trillion USD yearly if not more nowadays.

But that is besides the point. It seems that Chinese system doesn't process even half of transactions in or out of China. Not even close.
 
noonereal said:
And we are fool to not take them under our umbrella
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No, you have an agreement that you can't physically invade Cuba because of the Cuban missile crysis. You can't take them in to your umbrella since they are communist. How do you even make a deal with communists?
 
JohnRawls said:
Okay and? Most of those are internal transactions in China and it means that they processed basically 7 trillion worth of money because every transactions is basically 1 out 1 in so its double. That is not much.
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Cite?
JohnRawls said:
Swift processes 150-160 trillion USD yearly if not more nowadays.

But that is besides the point. It seems that Chinese system doesn't process even half of transactions in or out of China. Not even close.
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It's only 10 years old. And increasing yearly.

"In 2022, CIPS processed around 96.7 trillion yuan (US$14.03 trillion), with about 1427 financial institutions in 109 countries and regions having connected to the system."

"In 2023, the CIPS processed 6.6133 million transactions, totaling RMB123.06 trillion(US$17.09 trillion), increasing by 50.29 percent and 27.27 percent y-o-y, respectively. On a daily basis, the system processed 25,900 transactions, totaling RMB482.602 billion(US$67.028 billion)."
 

Cite what? Its basic accounting ask an LLM or google bookkeeping(They add credit and debit. Debit and Credit must add up to 0 in case of pure transactions. If we talk about simple payment for something in money then credit and debit is 0 in monetary terms. Double the number happens because they are two transactions for the same sum one is credit and the other is debit)

LLM: https://www.google.com/search?q=do+transactions+recorded+get+doubled+in+accounting?&sca_esv=f2d50c88ebe7532f&sxsrf=AE3TifNXGqnrEAi9vpZ4xqr05sbWFcy3tg:1757878696392&source=hp&ei=qBnHaP6EFs6yqwGSmafYCA&iflsig=AOw8s4IAAAAAaMcnuNDUbZ6TbjaTciK2BnGGGaUvSl17&ved=0ahUKEwj--IS6gNmPAxVO2SoKHZLMCYsQ4dUDCBc&uact=5&oq=do+transactions+recorded+get+doubled+in+accounting?&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IjNkbyB0cmFuc2FjdGlvbnMgcmVjb3JkZWQgZ2V0IGRvdWJsZWQgaW4gYWNjb3VudGluZz8yBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABSLBZUIkUWOhVcAZ4AJABAJgB8gGgAcQaqgEGNDUuMi4yuAEDyAEA-AEBmAI2oALtGqgCCsICBxAjGCcY6gLCAgoQIxiABBgnGIoFwgIEECMYJ8ICCBAAGIAEGLEDwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYxwHCAgsQABiABBixAxiDAcICCxAuGIAEGNEDGMcBwgILEC4YgAQYsQMYgwHCAgUQABiABMICFBAuGIAEGMcBGJgFGJkFGJ4FGK8BwgIFEC4YgATCAg0QLhiABBjRAxjHARgKwgIIEAAYgAQYywHCAgcQABiABBgNwgIGEAAYFhgewgIFEAAY7wXCAgQQIRgVwgIFECEYnwXCAgcQIRigARgKwgIIEAAYgAQYogSYAwXxBcWEQhmksGPckgcGNTAuMi4yoAe2oAKyBwY0NC4yLjK4B-AawgcHMjMuMzAuMcgHSw&sclient=gws-wiz

Double accounting rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-entry_bookkeeping
 
JohnRawls said:
Cite what?
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A citation that shows most of those transactions are internal.
 
Grand Mal said:
A citation that shows most of those transactions are internal.
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The only info the subject is that it controls 80% of Yuan flow and around 40-45% of their external and internal flow out and in the country, not all transactions are in Yuan. That is the info available right now that was released to the public.
 
JohnRawls said:
No, you have an agreement that you can't physically invade Cuba because of the Cuban missile crysis. You can't take them in to your umbrella since they are communist. How do you even make a deal with communists?
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Give me a ****in break

It is 2025, check your calendar.
 
JohnRawls said:
No, you have an agreement that you can't physically invade Cuba because of the Cuban missile crysis. You can't take them in to your umbrella since they are communist. How do you even make a deal with communists?
Click to expand...
Trump has, with Vietnam. And he has been courting China.
 
JohnRawls said:
You misunderstand. They are begging for money. Their economy is non-functional since the USSR collapsed that subsidized them by supplying them anything for relatively useless stuff.
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Gee, Cuba’s doing pretty good for a country whose economy has supposedly been “non functional” for as long as Estonia has been a thing.
 
JohnRawls said:
No, you have an agreement that you can't physically invade Cuba because of the Cuban missile crysis. You can't take them in to your umbrella since they are communist. How do you even make a deal with communists?
Click to expand...
?

The U.S. proudly aligned with Mao and the Khmer Rouge in the name of something something Russia.
 
Grand Mal said:
Trump has, with Vietnam. And he has been courting China.
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China and Vietnam are not really communist economically anymore. Politically they are under a Leninist one party rule. Although China has slipped back in to autocracy/dictatorship as of late with Xi.

Cuba is economically still communist and politically not even under a one party rule but basically under a dictatorial rule.

@Tigerace117 Not really. First of all it was a diferent time and second of all, there were no alignment with Mao or Khmer Rogues. Some US actions did benefit the Khmer Rogues though by supporting the general alliance that Khmer Rogues were part of against Vietnam.
 
A distinction without a difference. There's no reason why Cuba can't be dealt with. Many countries do.
There's no reason for the embargo against Cuba, if there ever was.
 
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