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Exactly, it came from a verb already in the dictionary, to describe them based on what they were doing. Logically, we often convert words to another part of speech for semantic purposes, especially when converting nouns to verbs.
It sounds like we already have a set of words, so why add another?
My response is proportional to how much harm is done by such violation.
It's completely reasonable that it should be easier if your spouse is American.
Those stupid enough to make the choice to enter illegally are idiots.
It doens't matter what you call them, the way they came here is still illegal.
Actually, it came form an adjective. An adjective which means something very different from the noun.
Isn't that kind of like how back in the day people said "We have a word for niggers already, so why add another?"
How are you measuring and defining "harm"? Are you including the sociatal benefits of violating the law in your equations? I ask because there are multiple well-documented benefits that society enjoys from illegal immigration.
Absolutely, but that doesn't mean it has to be as difficult as it is when you aren't married to an American. Out of curiosity, how long did you guys have to live abroad before she came here with you and in what country?
Well that's just stupid and uninformed nonsense right there. If you are faced with the choice of starvation and violent death in your country of origin, or illegal immigration to the US (a very real dichotomy for someone from Juarez, Mexico, let's say, where immediately escape is far preferable to waiting out the US immigration system), you'd have to be ****ing retarded to pick starvation and violent death in your homeland.
Because message is power and is important in politics. The attempts to use things like "Undocumented Immigrant" or "Illegal Alien" aren't generally done because of some strange need by those that think of the people in that fashion to be reminded of the term. Rather, it's done as an attempt to sway the general societal bend and presentation of the issue in a way favorable to their individual political agenda as a means of influencing those that are on the fence.
Yeah, in a group of people strongly against people being here illegally it shouldn't really matter if you call them anything from Undocumented Citizens to Frolicking Jackanapes...everyone there has a firm understanding that they're foreign tied individuals here in an illegal manner. Similarly, in a group of people strongly in favor of open borders or allowing those that are here illegally to stay, it ALSO doesn't really matter if they're called "soon to be citizens" or "Future Democratic Voters". Everyone in THAT group also is fully aware of their thoughts regarding the legitimacy of them being in this country.
Words are used for that unwashed portion in the middle that just has a mild touch with politics in general and thus the message and general tone of conversation of the day largely affects their mentalities. Something like "Undocumented Immigrant" or such paints a kinder and more benign picture of an individual whose here just trying to live the american dream like our immigrant forefathers but just didn't fill out the proper paperwork. Something like "Illegal Alien" paints the picture of a foreigner who decided to buck the system to wrongfully come here rather than follow the rules like those legal immigrants throughout our history.
Now, your terminology does that as well which is why I imagine most won't be bothered by it. But Honestly, I don't see the "Illegal is grammatically incorrect" argument used very often so I don't see a big reason to change it based on that notion. And I do think WHAT you call them is somewhat important, only in so much as it sets the general political tone of conversation in the nation.
Thanks, I mispoke and said verb when I meant adjective. However, there is a clear similarity between the adjective and noun. Namely, an illegal did something which was illegal.
Yes, especially since blacks have chosen to keep the word around.
Overall, illegal immigrants obviously cost taxpayers money.
What do you see as the benefit of illegal immigration over legal?
We didn't have to live abroad. I met her when I was overseas to lecture at an event. I flew her to stay with me a couple months, after six months of long distance communication. We knew in a short amount of time that there was no question we were soulmates, so we married and filed. I was aware that processing would be shorter if she didn't fly home. It was fun, and no harm ended up being done, marrying before meeting her family.
You make it sound like there's not a square mile of reasonably safe land in Mexico, which is bologna.
Undocumented worker.
I'd prefer illegal alien.An interesting idea occurred to me. The argument against the term "illegal immigrant" that has the most merit is that it is grammatically incorrect. I know that some people disagree, but their disagreement is irrelvent to this thread (so I am asking people to please refrain from ****ing up this thread by trying to defend or attack the term "illegal immigrant"). This thread is about whether or not people find the undeniably grammatically accurate term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative to "illegal immigrant".
Please vote in the poll. The options are:
I support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.
I support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do NOT find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.
I do NOT support the term "Illegal Immigrant", but I do find the term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.
I do NOT support the use of the term "Illegal Immigrant", and I do NOT find term "Criminal Immigrant" to be an acceptable alternative.
Other
I'd prefer illegal alien.
Illegal
Against or not authorized by law
Alien
A foreign born person who has not qualified as a citizen of the country
To me "immigrant" implies a permanent stay, which also seems to imply legal migration. But here's the definition:
Immigrant
An alien in a country except, in United States, one within the specified class within the Immigration and Nationality Act. 8 USCA 1101(a)(15).
I'm not sure why people seem to think that immigrant implies a permanent stay. I don't have that belief at all, but perhaps that is because I know so many different immigrants from different countries, many of whom have no intention whatsoever of staying here after they retire.
For the same reason you keep saying that "Illegal" is wrong. Because the definition of immigrant:
"a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence"
Which highlights my earlier comments in terms of your point. There's the actual literal definition of words and then there is the general societally understood usage of them. EVERYONE tends to pick and choose when they want to go with the former or the latter
What to call them?
I usually just ask them their name and hope I remember it next time I see them.
I don't know the particular situations of those people but you can look here at Cornell Law to see if the US recognizes them as "immigrants" or not. (I had trouble finding it yesterday or I would have linked it, then.) It does have several references to people who have no intent to stay but all those that I saw also included some other qualifier, like being a student or some time limit, etc.I'm not sure why people seem to think that immigrant implies a permanent stay. I don't have that belief at all, but perhaps that is because I know so many different immigrants from different countries, many of whom have no intention whatsoever of staying here after they retire.
I don't know the particular situations of those people but you can look here at Cornell Law to see if the US recognizes them as "immigrants" or not. (I had trouble finding it yesterday or I would have linked it, then.) It does have several references to people who have no intent to stay but all those that I saw also included some other qualifier, like being a student or some time limit, etc.
Oy vey. 20+ pages in the other thread isn't enough? We have to regurgitate it in another forum and pretend it's a new idea? :roll:
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