Creationism is easily disproved by mans current state of evolution

[Logicman]

See #67

You still can't answer that question because there is no conclusive DNA evidence, or any other kind of conclusive evidence that identifies man's immediate, direct-line ancestor. If you had the answer you'd have coughed it up by now.

Morphological similarities do not 'prove' evolution. The Neanderthal 'Man' demonstrates that much, since he's been eliminated as man's direct-line ancestor. Instead, science INFERS that he is a (quote) 'distant cousin'. Inference plays a big part in evolution. Remember that science chart in school, showing the 'evolution' of man, finally standing upright? What they had there was based on morphology, not hard science. They're big on inferences. They also can't explain why there's no prior, transitional fossils to explain the numerous complex species that suddenly appear during the Cambrian Explosion. Now you can have 'micro-evolution' (changes within species) after creation, but macro-evolution (entire new species) is hotly debated. The highly improbable advent of abiogenesis is another thorn in your side. Anyway, we know that the universe cannot be the cause of its own appearance. There had to be a first cause. So what was it, if not God?

You don't have the answers. You haven't done your homework.

 

[Logicman]

Not to mention that much of the bible is plagiarized from the Egyptian worship of RA...
1.Both were conceived of a virgin.
2.Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
3.Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
4.Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph.
5.Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
6.Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
7.Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
8.Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
9.Both births were announced by angels (this si nto the same as number 7).
10.Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
11.Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men".
12.After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
13.To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to "arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
14.When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
15.Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
16.Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
17.Both were baptized at age 30.
18.Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
19.Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
20.Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
21.Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
22.Both have 12 disciples.
23.Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
24.Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
25.Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)

That's utter nonsense.

23 Reasons why Jesus is not a copy of pagan deities

https://jamesbishopblog.wordpress.c...-know-jesus-is-not-a-copy-of-pagan-religions/

Debunking the "Jesus is like Horus" Claim

How to Quickly Debunk the Horus-Jesus Myth | Come Reason's Apologetics Notes

Horus Manure

Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus Connection | Strange Notions

 

[joG]

The laws of physics dictate that while matter can change forms, matter cannot be created from nothing. We therefore are left with 2 choices. Either matter in some form has existed forever, or matter really does not exist at all. It is theoretically possible that we only imagine matter to exist much like in the Matrix.....

But, we have no reason to believe that physics as we understand it is not just one in many. Whether it or energy and matter were created or not seems unknown and at today's level of science unknowable.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Not to mention that much of the bible is plagiarized from the Egyptian worship of RA...
1.Both were conceived of a virgin.
2.Both were the "only begotten son" of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
3.Horus's mother was Meri, Jesus's mother was Mary.
4.Horus's foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus's foster father was Joseph.
5.Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
6.Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
7.Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
8.Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
9.Both births were announced by angels (this si nto the same as number 7).
10.Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
11.Horus was visited at birth by "three solar deities" and Jesus was visited by "three wise men".
12.After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
13.To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, "Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child." To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to "arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt."
14.When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where hsi eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
15.Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
16.Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
17.Both were baptized at age 30.
18.Horus was baptized by Anup the Baptizer. Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
19.Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
20.Horus was taken from the desert of Amenta up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Set. Jesus was taken from the desert in Palestine up a high mountain to be tempted by his arch-rival Satan.
21.Both Horus and Jesus successfully resist this temptation.
22.Both have 12 disciples.
23.Both walked on water, cast out demons, healed the sick, and restored sight to the blind.
24.Horus "stilled the sea by his power." Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, "Peace, be still."
25.Horus raised his dead father (Osiris) from the grave. Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave. (Note the similarity in names when you say them out loud. Further, Osiris was also known as Asar, which is El-Asar in Hebrew, which is El-Asarus in Latin.)

as I said, if I had as much time as you, I could find more contradictions in Harry Potter. I bet JK Rowling never existed, right?

 

[cabse5]

OK, I'll weigh into this thread. First, what is god's image? An exact duplicate? No? Then we could be considered in the image of god with our god-like traits? Well, we're already smarter than any other species on the planet...

Second, if not created, where are our completely evolutionary direct descendants? Where are those missing links, those half men half beasts, for example? Also, where are those mistakes of evolution, beast to man?

 

[Bender]

There is no missing link.

In an 1850’s publication, when Charles Lyell noted an incomplete fossil record when looking a the Cretaceous period, he called it, “a break in the chain implying no doubt many missing links in the series of geological monuments which we may some day be able to supply.”

Now Lyell wasn’t saying this as though this gap throws the theory of evolution awry…because evolution had not been suggested in the scientific publications of the time. Darwin didn’t publish until 1859 and Lyell made his statements in 1851. Thus, the idea of the “missing link” comes before the theory of evolution was a thing.

We have found a large number of fossils that indicate an evolutionary relationship going from Sahelanthropus tchadensis (6-7mya) all the way to Homo neanderthalensis. All of these are transitional fossils. Even looking at early Homo Sapiens compared to you, me and everyone today. there are differences that are very noticeable.

2,000 years from now, they might be debating if the Biblical-era humans and us are the same species or not and wondering if there is a missing link between them.

I'd like to hope not being that we'd as a species/society would have a stronger grasp of science than we currently do.

So when you look at all the transitional fossils going from the earliest primate ancestors to now, there are some gaps but those gaps do not prove evolution wrong. Heck we have more evidence of our evolutionary chain than we do of some dinosaurs. We have more proof that we evolved than we do that the T-Rex existed...and we're reasonably certain that sucker was out there porking its way to the top of the food chain 65mya.

 

[jdog]

You still can't answer that question because there is no conclusive DNA evidence, or any other kind of conclusive evidence that identifies man's immediate, direct-line ancestor. If you had the answer you'd have coughed it up by now.

Morphological similarities do not 'prove' evolution. The Neanderthal 'Man' demonstrates that much, since he's been eliminated as man's direct-line ancestor. Instead, science INFERS that he is a (quote) 'distant cousin'. Inference plays a big part in evolution. Remember that science chart in school, showing the 'evolution' of man, finally standing upright? What they had there was based on morphology, not hard science. They're big on inferences. They also can't explain why there's no prior, transitional fossils to explain the numerous complex species that suddenly appear during the Cambrian Explosion. Now you can have 'micro-evolution' (changes within species) after creation, but macro-evolution (entire new species) is hotly debated. The highly improbable advent of abiogenesis is another thorn in your side. Anyway, we know that the universe cannot be the cause of its own appearance. There had to be a first cause. So what was it, if not God?

You don't have the answers. You haven't done your homework.

If you want to believe in magic men in the sky, then be my guest, but the facts are that your knowledge of science is pathetic and you are living in a fantasy world.

 

[jdog]

OK, I'll weigh into this thread. First, what is god's image? An exact duplicate? No? Then we could be considered in the image of god with our god-like traits? Well, we're already smarter than any other species on the planet...

Second, if not created, where are our completely evolutionary direct descendants? Where are those missing links, those half men half beasts, for example? Also, where are those mistakes of evolution, beast to man?

If you are looking for a half man half beast, simply look in the mirror. Man is still only half evolved as anyone can see from the inhuman acts we perpetrate upon innocent people every day. Do you feel proud and evolved when you see pictures of all the innocent children who are murdered by your government for profit with your blessing?

 

[William Rea]

If you are looking for a half man half beast, simply look in the mirror. Man is still only half evolved as anyone can see from the inhuman acts we perpetrate upon innocent people every day. Do you feel proud and evolved when you see pictures of all the innocent children who are murdered by your government for profit with your blessing?

As has been explained to you, we cannot be half evolved. We are evolved well enough to survive and reproduce successfully in the current environment, there is no target.

 

[jdog]

As has been explained to you, we cannot be half evolved. We are evolved well enough to survive and reproduce successfully in the current environment, there is no target.

Of course there is a target. You are just not bright enough to see it. Whether we are evolved enough to survive is still very much in question. We are currently overpopulating and polluting our planet at a rate which will threaten much of the population providing we do not make the decision to destroy ourselves via nuclear war first.
When and if we reach the point where our intellect is able to suppress our reptilian urges, then we will be fully evolved, until then we may just be another dead end on the evolutionary chart...

 

[Logicman]

There is no missing link.

Please identify man's immediate, direct-line ancestor, and provide the conclusive DNA evidence to back up your answer. I need the name of a specific hominid as your answer.

Morphological similarities do not prove evolution. The Neanderthal 'Man' demonstrates that much, since he's been eliminated as man's direct-line ancestor. Instead, science INFERS that he is a distant cousin.

 

[Logicman]

If you want to believe in magic men in the sky, then be my guest, but the facts are that your knowledge of science is pathetic and you are living in a fantasy world.

Why can't you answer the challenge to your thinking?

Please identify man's immediate, direct-line ancestor, and provide the conclusive DNA evidence to back up your answer. I need the name of a specific hominid as your answer.

Prediction: jdog won't provide the requested information, but will dance and obfuscate and/or make another jack-legged statement like the one he made above.

 

[William Rea]

Of course there is a target. You are just not bright enough to see it. Whether we are evolved enough to survive is still very much in question. We are currently overpopulating and polluting our planet at a rate which will threaten much of the population providing we do not make the decision to destroy ourselves via nuclear war first.
When and if we reach the point where our intellect is able to suppress our reptilian urges, then we will be fully evolved, until then we may just be another dead end on the evolutionary chart...

Then we are not talking about Evolution and any discussion with you is pointless.

 

[Logicman]

Then we are not talking about Evolution and any discussion with you is pointless.

Nonsense, and nonsense.

 

[William Rea]

Nonsense, and nonsense.

Good post Logicman, you're really upping your game here.

 

[Logicman]

Good post Logicman, you're really upping your game here.

You want to post garbage like you did then don't complain.

 

[William Rea]

You want to post garbage like you did then don't complain.

I'm not complaining, I'm praising your astonishing post.

 

[zyzygy]

Why can't you answer the challenge to your thinking?

Please identify man's immediate, direct-line ancestor, and provide the conclusive DNA evidence to back up your answer. I need the name of a specific hominid as your answer.

Prediction: jdog won't provide the requested information, but will dance and obfuscate and/or make another jack-legged statement like the one he made above.

Closest Human Ancestor May Rewrite Steps in Our Evolution

 

[Bender]

Please identify man's immediate, direct-line ancestor, and provide the conclusive DNA evidence to back up your answer. I need the name of a specific hominid as your answer.

Morphological similarities do not prove evolution. The Neanderthal 'Man' demonstrates that much, since he's been eliminated as man's direct-line ancestor. Instead, science INFERS that he is a distant cousin.

Ok, explain gravity to me using the same level of direct line proof of what it is quantified in the same levels of detail that you are asking evolutionary science.

You can't. Right now, no one can. But guess what? We know that gravity exists since we are comfortably seated at out computational devices having this discussion and not floating away into space.

Simple Definition of theory
: an idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain facts or events
: an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true
: the general principles or ideas that relate to a particular subject

A theory is the best way we can describe how something works. We don't know if we are correct, but the scientific evidence backs up the ideas in question.

In the case of evolution, all the scientific evidence agrees that we are evolved from a common ancestor species of primate way the heck back in the annals of time. And yes Neanderthalis is a cousin species since they existed at the same time as each other towards the end. Doesn't disprove anything since the similarities between the species and the fact that modern Homo sapiens contains between one and four percent Neanderthal DNA...means that they were similar enough of a species to be able to breed. You only get that if there is a very close common ancestor.

You can choose to disbelieve evolution all you want. Doesn't change the fact that the current theory of evolution is currently the best explanation as to how we got here and is certainly a damn sight better of one than crediting some mythical sky pixie for whipping some bloke up out of some dust and making him a sexual partner from his rib.

 

[Bender]

If you are looking for a half man half beast, simply look in the mirror. Man is still only half evolved as anyone can see from the inhuman acts we perpetrate upon innocent people every day. Do you feel proud and evolved when you see pictures of all the innocent children who are murdered by your government for profit with your blessing?

How can you claim that we are half evolved? Do you have some insight as to what our final form is going to be that you are not sharing? Evolution is not something that happens all the time. Look at crocodiles. They have been around for millions of years...largely unchanged. Sharks are another example. Evolution only comes into play if a new trait makes for better survivability of the species. Crocs and sharks haven't evolved because they have not needed to. Humans might not need to evolve because we evolved to a point where we can do things that nature can not. An animal needs to warm up, they find someplace where they can lose less heat than their bodies can generate...or they die. If it's a climate change, the ones that have more insulation survive better and pass along the genes for more long furred of their kind. They evolve through natural selection...or they die. We sorted out how to make a place warm. We learned about insulation and thermodynamics and can make a place warmer. We didn't need to evolve into Wookiees, we made fire.

Evolution is something that happens when there is a need to, not something that always happens. If that were the case, sharks and crocs would be much different than they were 50 mya.

 

[Logicman]

Ok, explain gravity to me using the same level of direct line proof of what it is quantified in the same levels of detail that you are asking evolutionary science.

You can't. Right now, no one can. But guess what? We know that gravity exists since we are comfortably seated at out computational devices having this discussion and not floating away into space.

Simple Definition of theory
: an idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain facts or events
: an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true
: the general principles or ideas that relate to a particular subject

A theory is the best way we can describe how something works. We don't know if we are correct, but the scientific evidence backs up the ideas in question.

In the case of evolution, all the scientific evidence agrees that we are evolved from a common ancestor species of primate way the heck back in the annals of time. And yes Neanderthalis is a cousin species since they existed at the same time as each other towards the end. Doesn't disprove anything since the similarities between the species and the fact that modern Homo sapiens contains between one and four percent Neanderthal DNA...means that they were similar enough of a species to be able to breed. You only get that if there is a very close common ancestor.

You can choose to disbelieve evolution all you want. Doesn't change the fact that the current theory of evolution is currently the best explanation as to how we got here and is certainly a damn sight better of one than crediting some mythical sky pixie for whipping some bloke up out of some dust and making him a sexual partner from his rib.

Until you guys can identify the specific hominid that is man's direct-line ancestor, and provide conclusive evidence for it, the missing link is still missing, and man's 'evolution' is in serious doubt. Might as well have been a divine appointment!

 

[jdog]

How can you claim that we are half evolved? Do you have some insight as to what our final form is going to be that you are not sharing? Evolution is not something that happens all the time. Look at crocodiles. They have been around for millions of years...largely unchanged. Sharks are another example. Evolution only comes into play if a new trait makes for better survivability of the species. Crocs and sharks haven't evolved because they have not needed to. Humans might not need to evolve because we evolved to a point where we can do things that nature can not. An animal needs to warm up, they find someplace where they can lose less heat than their bodies can generate...or they die. If it's a climate change, the ones that have more insulation survive better and pass along the genes for more long furred of their kind. They evolve through natural selection...or they die. We sorted out how to make a place warm. We learned about insulation and thermodynamics and can make a place warmer. We didn't need to evolve into Wookiees, we made fire.

Evolution is something that happens when there is a need to, not something that always happens. If that were the case, sharks and crocs would be much different than they were 50 mya.

Man has existed in his present form for around 200,000 years. In fact, our brains are actually smaller than our ancestors. So tell me... why is it we can only trace our history back a few thousand years? Could it be that we basically exterminate ourselves from time to time? Do you really believe that despite the fact our brains are smaller now than they were 75000 years ago, we only became intelligent in the past 5000? Really? What we do know is that our propensity for war never seems to be something we evolve away from. For all of our recorded history, we basically wipe one civilization after another off the earth by way of war and conquest. There is a reason for the complete destruction of whole societies. Once a people are completely destroyed, they are no longer a threat to claim the lands you have stolen from them. That was the reason for the genocide of the Native Americans. The danger to our survival is not one of coping with the needs of life, it is to become rational enough to realize that we must evolve beyond our animal instincts and our violent tendencies to survive as a species.

 

[cabse5]

If you are looking for a half man half beast, simply look in the mirror. Man is still only half evolved as anyone can see from the inhuman acts we perpetrate upon innocent people every day. Do you feel proud and evolved when you see pictures of all the innocent children who are murdered by your government for profit with your blessing?

How does this prove your evolutionary thesis???

 

[RAMOSS]

How does this prove your evolutionary thesis???

It doesn't. Jdog, despite his claims against creationism, is not presenting the scientific understanding of evolution at all.

 

[thinkagain]

Until you guys can identify the specific hominid that is man's direct-line ancestor, and provide conclusive evidence for it, the missing link is still missing, and man's 'evolution' is in serious doubt. Might as well have been a divine appointment!

The process of evolution is a continuum. Changes happen slowly through mutations all the time. The direct line ancestor to you is your father/mother. If by some chance you had a genetic mutation along the way (and such mutations happen all the time) then you would be an evolved version of your direct line ancestor.

There are many "links" in the continuum. To suggest that we should be able to find all of the trillions of links along the way is absurd. The fact of the matter is that we have found a whole lot of links.

Have you looked at any recent science ? we are finding new links quite often.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-missing-genetic-link-in-human-evolution/