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Creation of a Palestinian State

noonereal said:
Isreal should no longer be recognized as a sovereign nation. Instead, a Palestinian state should. Then the hapless Jews would have no say. Sounds pretty damned fair to me.
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And who has the authority to grant your wish for the Palestinians?
The feckless and useless United Nations?
Who gets to decide? America? America who is ready to throw Bibi under the bus on one hand and, on the other, ready to give Israel billions to fight Hamas and defend against Iran? That is a fickle ally. Made more embarrassing because Biden is fearful of losing Michigan because of its anti-Israeli population. It's about our national politics and not because Biden pities the plight of Palestinians.
How do you force a sovereign nation like Israel to accept the creation of a country which has said for decades Israel should be driven into the sea? Israel does not want such a state to exist inside its borders.
 
jaypatriot said:
How do you force a sovereign nation like Israel to accept the creation of a country which has said for decades Israel should be driven into the sea?
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Cut off it's piggy bank?
 
On all of these threads there is a consistent effort to place all the blame on one side or the other and ignore the depredations of "your" side. There are no "good guys" in this mess, and not a lot of qualitative difference in motivation or methodology.

There should, in my view, be little reference to "ancient history" in discussing the current conflict. The history of modern Israel really only traces back to the mid-19th Century and the beginning of the revanchist Zionist movement, which sought to reclaim "historic" lands. In the centuries since Jewish displacement, millions of other people - some related to the earliest settlers - occupied and improved the lands, some with olive groves dating back centuries. Entire generations were raised with no correlation to ancient boundaries (disputed even among Jewish tribes).

Few Jews had any particular claim to any particular lands in the region, and any such records dissipated centuries ago. Instead, a collective claim is made to the entire region. In this regard, the sides do not differ.

The partition plan imposed on the region was an attempt to "split the baby". On its face, that effort seems reasonable, but the reality has always been quite different. The deck was stacked at least 3 decades prior to partition. The untoward influences are fairly well known - the Balfour Declaration, Lord Rothschild - and, like the Treaty of Versailles, it was mostly about punishing the losing belligerent, in this case the Ottomans, and by extension, the Arabs. That effort has not changed in a century of strife.
 
noonereal said:
Cut off it's piggy bank?
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I don't believe that Congress will allow Israel to have a weakened defense against Hezbollah, Hamas, or Iran and its proxies in Syria.
Keep in mind Israel is helping the U.S. weapons industry improve its defensive capabilities by using anti-drone, anti-missile, and anti-aircraft technology developed by U.S. defense companies.
 
jaypatriot said:
A matter of opinion. Israel gave Hamas control over Gaza and they squandered that opportunity again and again. Hamas and Gaza got what they deserved.
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No people deserves genocide, rape and starvation of it's children.
Make no mistake, Isreal are the bad guys here. Period.
 
noonereal said:
No people deserves genocide, rape and starvation of it's children.
Make no mistake, Isreal are the bad guys here. Period.
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You call the war genocide. I call it collateral damage to citizens in the way of the war.
Sure, you believe that a sovereign country fighting for its survival surrounded by 100 million Arabs in the region is purposely targeting civilians. You don't believe that a militant group of savages deserve to be obliterated because they invaded Israel proper and slaughtered 1200 Jews and captured over 200 hostages to be used as bargaining chips during future negotiations.
And, of course, you believe the casualty numbers generated by Hamas are the absolute truth and does not include thousands of Hamas militants killed by IDF troops.
And you believe Biden has all the power in the world to dictate how Israel should go about rooting out Hamas scum hiding in tunnels, under schools, hospitals, and mosques all the while hiding behind innocent civilians.
And you probably support those rabid pro-Hamas protestors disrupting highways, airports, and universities while they shout "Death to Israel", "Death to America" and chant "From the river to the sea".


Are you a racist, anti-Semitic, pro-Hamas, or just plain illogical when it comes to how a sovereign nation should defend itself.
 
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