COVID-19 will soon surpass the Spanish flu as America’s deadliest pandemic

[CaughtInThe]

But that doesn't make it deadlier... a weird thing to argue.

I guess you're just gonna ignore the actual number of deaths and the word "America's".


Again, you pick some really weird battles.

 

[Gaius46]

View attachment 67354464

The 1918 pandemic killed 3x as many as Covid on a per capita basis. As well it killed far more healthy young people than older people - it’s believed because it provoked an seriously bad immune system overreaction.

And though the pandemic lasted close to 18 months (or maybe 2 years) most of those deaths came within a 6 or 8 week period.

Let’s hope Covid doesn’t top that.

 

[maxparrish]

View attachment 67354464

If we were using the rule of "misleading information" on COVID, you and Fortune (in principle) would be in gross violation.

I tire of correcting this kind of lurid sensationalist crap, but this common example of hyper disingenuousness cannot go unchallenged. You know, as well as I, that the raw numbers are meaningless as a comparison BECAUSE they are based on different total populations. Hence, adjusted for total population:

Spanish Flu adjusted for 1918 US population of 103 million = 2,160,000 deaths (today).
Civil War adjusted for 1860 US population 31.5 million = 6, 877,000 deaths (today)
WWII adjusted for 1940 US population of 132 million = 1,013,000 (today).

Aside from the fact that Fortune ignored that the Civil War was a major US war and intentionally left it out, when the other numbers are adjusted for population COVID is are less sensational that several other causes. And compared to cardiovascular disease and cancer its a third common cause of old age death.

Finally, at least a third of those who have died with COVID would have passed in the same year anyway.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

No, I am not for forcing people to adhere to a utopian vision of the world.

The grass is always green over the wall.

​

 

[CaughtInThe]

I'm sorry. I can see you think the statement "But that's not "doing math", that's "counting"." is laughable.

Oh, I get it. "COUNTING" is language not math.

 

[Gaius46]

Why is it called the Spanish Flu?
We don't call Covid the Chinese Flu.

It actually appears likely that it started in Kansas. Should we call it the Kansas Flu?

 

[CaughtInThe]

The 1918 pandemic killed 3x as many as Covid on a per capita basis.

And COVID will kill more total Americans.

It's literally what this thread is about.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

We should probably call it the Yankee flu, since the first confirmed cases were in Kansas. The reason that it's called the Spanish flu, is because Spain, which was neutral in WWI, was the first country willing to publish information about it in their newspapers.

Spanish flu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It wasn't so much "willing" as the fact that the non-German allied nations PROHIBITED publication of news about the influenza outbreak so as to avoid giving "the other guys" encouragement to continue fighting.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

"Covid has killed ~670,000 Americans in 16 months" is a lie.

670,000 may have died with Covid. An an intentionally unknown and undocumented number died from Covid. We will probably never know.

Right, every single US government agency and the governments of every other country in the world are lying about the impact of COVID-19.

SSSSSSSSSSSuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeee they are.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Not what I said. I'll accept no assignment of ill motive either. Check yourself.

I presume that you voted PPofC on Monday.

 

[Slavister]

Oh, okay. I understand why you've arrived at this, but look at the dates. The problem with what you're doing here is that you're referencing old data. The vaccines are simply less effective with the Delta variant, and the Delta variant became prominent in the U.S. in recent months. It takes time to collect the data and study it and write the reports, so when you're looking at a study published in early August or late July it's already months old. The Bloomberg article is from April! The New Jersey article is counting deaths "through" July, meaning its including everything before July.

Also, you do understand that even though the vaccine is not totally effective against Covid-19 delta variant it's still useful and worth taking, right?

Actually he is comparing apples to oranges. All those articles talk about chances of vaccinated getting severe covid PERIOD, and not about comparing vaccinated vs unvaccinated which is what he claims they say.

 

[Gaius46]

If we were using the rule of "misleading information" on COVID, you and Fortune (in principle) would be in gross violation.

I tire of correcting this kind of lurid sensationalist crap, but this common example of hyper disingenuousness cannot go unchallenged. You know, as well as I, that the raw numbers are meaningless as a comparison BECAUSE they are based on different total populations. Hence, adjusted for total population:

Spanish Flu adjusted for 1918 US population of 103 million = 2,160,000 deaths (today).
Civil War adjusted for 1860 US population 31.5 million = 6, 877,000 deaths (today)
WWII adjusted for 1940 US population of 132 million = 1,013,000 (today).

Aside from the fact that Fortune ignored that the Civil War was a major US war and intentionally left it out, when the other numbers are adjusted for population COVID is are less sensational that several other causes. And compared to cardiovascular disease and cancer its unremarkable.

Finally, let us not forget that at least a third of those who have died with COVID would have passed in the same year anyway.

An interesting and semi-related thing I didn’t know until I read a book on the 1918 pandemic is that in war in the the past disease typically killed more soldiers than combat did. I don’t know offhand about the numbers you posted but my understanding is that casualty reports generally didn’t include those who died from disease.

One of the goals of the military medical establish in WWI was to keep disease deaths lower than combat deaths.

 

[Gaius46]

And COVID will kill more total Americans.

It's literally what this thread is about.

I’m sure it will. Just pointing out that total deaths is a poor indicator of the severity of the pandemic.

 

[fireflygmf]

I presume that you voted PPofC on Monday.

Liberal. I just don't tolerate idiocy.

 

[fireflygmf]

I presume that you voted PPofC on Monday.

I presume you voted Rhino?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

And here:

Years of Life Lost Due to Obesity

Context Public health officials and organizations have disseminated health messages regarding the dangers of obesity, but these have not produced the desired effect.Objective To estimate the expected number of years of life lost (YLL) due to overweight and obesity across the life span...

jamanetwork.com

What you neglect to consider is that there is A LOT of profit to be made selling junk (read as "low nutrition, high calorie") food and the more of it you can flog the greater the profit will be.

The "ideal" American diet would consist of

[1] Breakfast - 2 x sausage and egg "McMuffins" + XL coffee w. triple cream and sugar + Tang type + Orange Juice + Cinnamon Danish​

​

[2] Mid Morning Snack - 2 x doughnuts + XL coffee w. triple cream and sugar​

​

[3] Lunch - 2x "Spicy McChicken"s + 2 x large fries + 2 x XL coffee w. triple cream and sugar + large chocolate shake + 2 x apple pies (single serving)​

​

[4] Mid Afternoon Snack - 2 x doughnuts + XL coffee w. triple cream and sugar​

​

[5] Supper - 2 x "Big Macs" + large fries + XL coffee w. triple cream and sugar + 2 x apple pies (single serving)​

​

[6] Evening Snack - 2 x doughnuts + diet coke (2 litre)​

all of which would be manufactured in a single factory and shipped to the local outlets for defrosting, heating, and serving.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Liberal. I just don't tolerate idiocy.

The statement "Liberal. I just don't tolerate idiocy." is an oxymoron.

Are you aware that Trudeau the Second ran almost exactly the same campaign as Trudeau the First did? That was a campaign based on claiming to have done what hadn't been done, promising to do what wasn't going to be done, and mindless repetitions of the words "forward" and "together".

Al-Jazeera had an interesting article about Canada's political leaders "Canada is a pedestrian nation".

The main difference between the leaderships of the Liberals and Conservatives and those of the NDP and the Greens, is that the NDP and the Greens actually appear to believe what they are trying to sell. (The leadership of the Bloc Quebecois is in it for pork, and the leadership of the PPofC is in it for ego gratification.)

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I presume you voted Rhino?

Unfortunately there was no candidate from the Parti Rhinocéros Party on my riding.

You do have to admit that the platform of the Parti Rhinocéros Party makes at least as much sense as those of the Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, and Greens. I mean, just look at what they consider to be THE number one priority of the Rhinoceros Party.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

It's already killed more than the Nazis.

The world wide death toll from COVID-19 is 4,716,140.

The Nazis killed around 15,000,000 (including the ~6,000,000 who are REALLY the only ones that count).

Therefore I have to agree with you that, since the number killed by COVID-19 starts with the number "4" and the number killed by the Nazis starts with the number "1" and since evrewunknoz that "4" is a larger number than "1", COVID-19 has already killed more than the Nazis.

 

[fireflygmf]

The statement "Liberal. I just don't tolerate idiocy." is an oxymoron.

Are you aware that Trudeau the Second ran almost exactly the same campaign as Trudeau the First did? That was a campaign based on claiming to have done what hadn't been done, promising to do what wasn't going to be done, and mindless repetitions of the words "forward" and "together".

Al-Jazeera had an interesting article about Canada's political leaders "Canada is a pedestrian nation".

The main difference between the leaderships of the Liberals and Conservatives and those of the NDP and the Greens, is that the NDP and the Greens actually appear to believe what they are trying to sell. (The leadership of the Bloc Quebecois is in it for pork, and the leadership of the PPofC is in it for ego gratification.)

I held my nose. I considered that candidate the best representative in my riding. I had voted NDP in the previous election, but not this time around.

 

[fireflygmf]

Unfortunately there was no candidate from the Parti Rhinocéros Party on my riding.

You do have to admit that the platform of the Parti Rhinocéros Party makes at least as much sense as those of the Liberals, Conservatives, NDP, and Greens. I mean, just look at what they consider to be THE number one priority of the Rhinoceros Party.

I've always been entertained by the Rhino ads. Satire at it's finest.

 

[Metric Mouse]

I'm sorry. I can see you think the statement "But that's not "doing math", that's "counting"." is laughable.

I retract my statement. Counting is extremely hard. If you are able to count, you are a math genius. CaughtInThe can count. CaughtInThe is a math genius.

I don't think it pays to discuss such complex issues as death rates with someone who thinks counting is math.

 

[fireflygmf]

I don't think it pays to discuss such complex issues as death rates with someone who thinks counting is math.

I don't know why I get so bothered.

I'm an engineer by training, 5 years of learning applied advanced math and physics. The only real way to get an objective and accurate view of reality is to perform the calculations. If you fail to do so, I live in a world where things could fail, and people could suffer. I have to deal with reality.

I feel like some people here don't earn a living where their work has any consequence whatsoever. They just spout off with whatever suits their fancy, critical thinking be damned.

Unfortunately, some napkin math landed me forming some unpopular opinions here... but it's where the numbers land me.

I skew heavily liberal politically. Hell, I've just been assumed to be far, far right wing just a few posts ago.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I held my nose. I considered that candidate the best representative in my riding. I had voted NDP in the previous election, but not this time around.

"I considered that candidate the best representative in my riding."

Congratulations, you have just earned the "Mature and Intelligent Voter Award".

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I've always been entertained by the Rhino ads. Satire at it's finest.

I don't know, giving Senate seats away as lottery prizes appears to be just as good a method as giving them away as political patronage (the "Canadian Way") or turning them into a life-time sinecure (the "American Way").

Although I do have to admit that you don't have to fork out as much pork when someone doesn't need it in order to ensure their re-election.