Constitutional Police Powers

[Ganondagan]

The issue of police power is not well understood by the general public I think, including me. I know the Constitution does not give the federal government general broad-based police power except where it relates to a specific enumerated power. Has this limited the role of the federal government, or not? Lawyers on this forum may be able to give us a more clear understanding. Anyone willing to give it a try?

 

[JRTurner]

The issue of police power is not well understood by the general public I think, including me. I know the Constitution does not give the federal government general broad-based police power except where it relates to a specific enumerated power. Has this limited the role of the federal government, or not? Lawyers on this forum may be able to give us a more clear understanding. Anyone willing to give it a try?

Federal government doesn't have police power. That's for the States. Federal government has national security power. The Federal Bureau of Investigation has very limited power, usually when a crime crosses states lines, causing a jurisdictional dispute between the states.

Unless you're referring to our military, secret service, national guard, etc. as federal police, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking as the question is a little... off?

 

[mrjurrs]

The issue of police power is not well understood by the general public I think, including me. I know the Constitution does not give the federal government general broad-based police power except where it relates to a specific enumerated power. Has this limited the role of the federal government, or not? Lawyers on this forum may be able to give us a more clear understanding. Anyone willing to give it a try?

The police powers belong to the states. That is why we see Sanctuary cities for example. When feds want to arrest someone in a local jurisdiction, I'm pretty sure that they advise the local gendarmes.

 

[Ganondagan]

Federal government doesn't have police power. That's for the States. Federal government has national security power. The Federal Bureau of Investigation has very limited power, usually when a crime crosses states lines, causing a jurisdictional dispute between the states.

Unless you're referring to our military, secret service, national guard, etc. as federal police, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking as the question is a little... off?

Doesn't the Commerce Clause give the federal goverrnment what is effectively police power?

 

[Safiel]

The Federal Government has jurisdictional police powers as it relates to their delegated powers.

For example, Postal Inspectors.

A general law enforcement agency, such as the FBI is permissible, as long as it restricts its activities to Federal delegated powers.

There has been stuff swept in since 1787. For example, the 13th Amendment effectively grants the Federal Government police powers related to human trafficking, even if it does not cross State lines, since that is a form of slavery/involuntary servitude. While the 21st Amendment repealed prohibition, it left in place Federal police powers related to alcohol.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The issue of police power is not well understood by the general public I think, including me. I know the Constitution does not give the federal government general broad-based police power except where it relates to a specific enumerated power. Has this limited the role of the federal government, or not? Lawyers on this forum may be able to give us a more clear understanding. Anyone willing to give it a try?

You're not a libertarian, you're a sovereign citizen, I can hear it, see it and SMELL it all the way over here.

 

[JRTurner]

Doesn't the Commerce Clause give the federal goverrnment what is effectively police power?

Not in the way I understand it. This is just giving congress the right to legislate/regulate how commerce is conducted. I'm trying to recall (my brain is on Supreme Court stuff right now) but I think it's more about the Federal Reserve and setting interest rates, etc. I could be completely off the mark.

 

[Ganondagan]

The Federal Government has jurisdictional police powers as it relates to their delegated powers.

For example, Postal Inspectors.

A general law enforcement agency, such as the FBI is permissible, as long as it restricts its activities to Federal delegated powers.

There has been stuff swept in since 1787. For example, the 13th Amendment effectively grants the Federal Government police powers related to human trafficking, even if it does not cross State lines, since that is a form of slavery/involuntary servitude. While the 21st Amendment repealed prohibition, it left in place Federal police powers related to alcohol.

Yes! Thank you, that's what I thought. But I'm not a legal scholar and I need help understanding the nuances of the matter. I've taken my ideas from Justice Stevens in writing (maybe this is just a summary as I understand his writings) that U.S. federal agencies have the power to adjudicate, legislate, and enforce laws within their specific areas of delegated power. The United States does not use administrative courts.[2] Adjudication is carried out internally within agencies by administrative law judges.

United States administrative law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I troubles me that the executive branch has accumulated this kind of power through it's federal agencies.

 

[JRTurner]

Yes! Thank you, that's what I thought. But I'm not a legal scholar and I need help understanding the nuances of the matter. I've taken my ideas from Justice Stevens in writing (maybe this is just a summary as I understand his writings) that U.S. federal agencies have the power to adjudicate, legislate, and enforce laws within their specific areas of delegated power. The United States does not use administrative courts.[2] Adjudication is carried out internally within agencies by administrative law judges.

United States administrative law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I troubles me that the executive branch has accumulated this kind of power through it's federal agencies.

You do know that the executive branch is constitutionally designed to enforce laws, correct? It's their duty. Congress makes laws, and the constitution charges the Supreme Court to ensure they are constitutional.

The expansion of government is due to the growth in population and sophistication necessary to handle that growth. It may have been okay for George Washington to have two people on staff, but I doubt anyone would think that was feasible in today's society.

I think the 15 departments under the President today are mandatory. I can't see any of them eliminated. Can you?

 

[Ganondagan]

You do know that the executive branch is constitutionally designed to enforce laws, correct? It's their duty. Congress makes laws, and the constitution charges the Supreme Court to ensure they are constitutional.

The expansion of government is due to the growth in population and sophistication necessary to handle that growth. It may have been okay for George Washington to have two people on staff, but I doubt anyone would think that was feasible in today's society.

I think the 15 departments under the President today are mandatory. I can't see any of them eliminated. Can you?

Yes, the departments of energy and education.

 

[JRTurner]

Yes, the departments of energy and education.

Um, no.

We need regulations and standards--constitutionally.

 

[Ganondagan]

Um, no.

We need regulations and standards--constitutionally.

Is regulating education one of the federal government's enumerated powers?

 

[JRTurner]

Is regulating education one of the federal government's enumerated powers?

Yes. The constitution gives Congress the right to make laws concerning schools that adhere to the constitution.

Brown v Board of Education overturning Plessy is just one example off the top of my head.

Unless you think we should have unregulated education--but that would be a mistake. Look what happened with Trump University and Liberty University. We would not want that chaos in our education system.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Yes. The constitution gives Congress the right to make laws concerning schools that adhere to the constitution.

Brown v Board of Education overturning Plessy is just one example off the top of my head.

Unless you think we should have unregulated education--but that would be a mistake. Look what happened with Trump University and Liberty University. We would not want that chaos in our education system.

It would not be “unregulated”. It would be regulated at the state level, which is the appropriate level for a lot of things that the federal government has taken over since WW2.

 

[The Mark]

The issue of police power is not well understood by the general public I think, including me. I know the Constitution does not give the federal government general broad-based police power except where it relates to a specific enumerated power. Has this limited the role of the federal government, or not? Lawyers on this forum may be able to give us a more clear understanding. Anyone willing to give it a try?

I often find myself comparing the USA to the EU, and the states to member nations of the EU. It's by no means the same, but it's closer than comparing the USA as a whole to one country in Europe, or something.

Not sure if that helps.

 

[JMB1911A1]

I often find myself comparing the USA to the EU, and the states to member nations of the EU. It's by no means the same, but it's closer than comparing the USA as a whole to one country in Europe, or something.

Not sure if that helps.

Agree. I believe that was the original intent of the Founding Fathers. They did not want a huge over powerful Federal government. That started in the 20th century with Woodrow Wilson and accelerated under FDR and LBJ.

 

[medi]

Posts #15 and #16 are hitting a bull's eye.

Other posts in this thread show merit.

But back to #15; that reminds me of a history teacher back in high school who once offered that the name United States was actually bad vocabulary usage, because a state was supposed to be a nation.

But I have never studied really old dictionaries to see if that was the definition before a certain point in time way back. I know that now the dictionary includes that 'state is like a province' idea.

As for this thread, I must admit to complete ignorance about federal coppers, except with regard to the FAA and investigating incidents and accidents with aircraft and choppers, and maybe balloons and other such flying/floating (floating in the air) devices. Never got much involved with balloons, except to keep my bird far away from them.

And coppers on the ground have been trouble for me many times in my life, due to fighting and coppers showing up and sticking cuffs on me and such. But those were locals.

MPs and APs are federal, though, aren't they? In fact, I don't think they are called MPs anymore, are they?

Did the FBI do most of the leg work when investigations of race related crimes were being done in southern states way back when? Is that where the reference to LBJ comes into play? I remember that day when he became POTUS. Sad day and so many sad faces. They let us out of school soon after lunch. Pa was stationed in Kansas, so same time zone.