Conservativism & Capital Punishment

[Spakian]

That doesn't even make sense.

One of the many articles that my point is based off of:

Rehabilitation Versus Punishment in the Adult Justice System

Rehabilitation versus Punishment – Table. Punishment within the Adult Justice will be referred to as incarceration in order to keep the topic spectrum narrow.

criminaljusticeonlineblog.com

 

[joko104]

One of the many articles that my point is based off of:

Rehabilitation Versus Punishment in the Adult Justice System

Rehabilitation versus Punishment – Table. Punishment within the Adult Justice will be referred to as incarceration in order to keep the topic spectrum narrow.

criminaljusticeonlineblog.com

The topic is murderers of crimes warranting the death penalty.

So you claim that Timothy McVeigh of the Oklahoma City bombing and Jeffery Dahmer who raped, protractedly tortured and murdered 17 boys and engaged in cannibalism could be rehabilitated and then released?

 

[Spakian]

The topic is murderers of crimes warranting the death penalty.

So you claim that Timothy McVeigh of the Oklahoma City bombing and Jeffery Dahmer who raped, protractedly tortured and murdered 17 boys and engaged in cannibalism could be rehabilitated and then released?

If the rehabilitation makes them a better person enough for them not to do those acts again, then yes.

 

[joko104]

If the rehabilitation makes them a better person enough for them not to do those acts again, then yes.

I have never understood why some Democrats truly LOVE criminals ZERO empathy for their victims. This is probably one of the main reasons why there is so much violent crime and murder in this country. Many violent natured people understand how much they are heroes to so many others.

You know which murderers have a 0% recidivism rate? Those who were executed. People in prison and guards have a right to not be subject to attack by sociopathic and psychotic murderers.

 

[Spakian]

I have never understood why some Democrats truly LOVE criminals ZERO empathy for their victims. This is probably one of the main reasons why there is so much violent crime and murder in this country. Many violent natured people understand how much they are heroes to so many others.

You know which murderers have a 0% recidivism rate? Those who were executed. People in prison and guards have a right to not be subject to attack by sociopathic and psychotic murderers.

Serial killers in Norway go to a rehabilitation camp. The recidivism rate there is much lower even for serial killers.

 

[Fishking]

Help me understand,

Conservatives believe we need to keep government small. They believe government is corrupt and that it cannot be trusted to do the right thing. They believe government is fallible and often screws up...

So how the hell does it make sense for someone who believes those things to think that same corrupt and fallible institution should have the power to execute human beings based on that corrupt and fallible institution's own trials?

I'm against the death penalty as well but for kinda weird reasons I guess. However, I think you're leaving out an aspect of conservatism which is a tendency towards order, and the death penalty can definitely fall into that category. I mean, your premise somewhat defeats itself in that you're comparing life imprisonment to the death penalty, which is barely a distinction worth making in the context of government power.

 

[joko104]

Serial killers in Norway go to a rehabilitation camp. The recidivism rate there is much lower even for serial killers.

Go ahead and tell the percentage or number of additional murders by serial killers are A-OK with you? The recidivism rate for executed serial killers is zero.

 

[joko104]

I'm against the death penalty as well but for kinda weird reasons I guess. However, I think you're leaving out an aspect of conservatism which is a tendency towards order, and the death penalty can definitely fall into that category. I mean, your premise somewhat defeats itself in that you're comparing life imprisonment to the death penalty, which is barely a distinction worth making in the context of government power.

Actually the distinction is significant in that life without parole is worse by far. If the person is kept in solitary it is the cruelest form of torture. If not, both guards and inmates are subject to abuse, violence and murder given the person in prison for life has nothing left to lose.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Help me understand,

Conservatives believe we need to keep government small. They believe government is corrupt and that it cannot be trusted to do the right thing. They believe government is fallible and often screws up...

So how the hell does it make sense for someone who believes those things to think that same corrupt and fallible institution should have the power to execute human beings based on that corrupt and fallible institution's own trials?

Isn't it the goal of democrats to execute all who supported and voted for Donald Trump?

The difference is that decent people see death as reserved for the most heinous crimes, where democrats see death reserved for political opponents.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Because the same "pro-life and pro-God and pro-Country" party think's its OK to behead an American citizen who is also one of God's children

Beheading is the favorite of ISIS, the close allies of the democrats, not of Conservatives.

Once again the Maoists appear confused.

 

[Fishking]

Actually the distinction is significant in that life without parole is worse by far. If the person is kept in solitary it is the cruelest form of torture. If not, both guards and inmates are subject to abuse, violence and murder given the person in prison for life has nothing left to lose.

This is true, but still not a huge distinction in my mind, if we're just talking about government power. Both are ultimate displays of government power.

 

[joko104]

This is true, but still not a huge distinction in my mind, if we're just talking about government power. Both are ultimate displays of government power.

True.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Would you feel that way if the one innocent person that was sacrificed on the altar of bringing ultimate justice to the 100 guilty men was your father or brother? Or you? Would you demand execution if you were wrongly imprisoned for a capital crime that only you knew that you didn't commit?

If you get wrongfully convicted of a capital crime you’re probably guilty of something

 

[Fishking]

Would you feel that way if the one innocent person that was sacrificed on the altar of bringing ultimate justice to the 100 guilty men was your father or brother? Or you? Would you demand execution if you were wrongly imprisoned for a capital crime that only you knew that you didn't commit?

The question can be turned on it's head and posed as, "Would you be so against the death penalty if it was your mother, sister, or child killed by a murderer after being violently raped?" I know some would stick to that principle. I know some that think they would in that situation but actually would not it it became a reality.

I know that many who are against the death penalty tend to be more on the left but there are also, ironically, many among those ranks who seem to be OK with killing people merely for supporting Trump.

 

[lwf]

If you get wrongfully convicted of a capital crime you’re probably guilty of something

We're all guilty of something. Who has the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness if "probably guilty of something" warrants the death penalty?

 

[Uncensored2008]

1. So abolish prisons?

Actually, that's a good idea.

Prisons are little more than higher education in the criminal arts.

The Maoist democrats love to distort studies to claim that the JUDEN, the white people pose the biggest threat of violence and point to DOJ studies that are based on Aryan Nations, a PRISON GANG as justification. Because whites are the majority of the prison population - yes, that's true despite what hate sites like the NY Times imply through dishonest reporting - because whites are the majority prison population, AN or Aryan Brotherhood as the are sometimes called, are the biggest prison gang, operating in all 50 states.

Prison is the recruiting and training grounds for the most violent and dangerous people in America.

Societies with the lowest recidivism for crime are those who eschew prison and focus on three things;

1. Restitution. This is the most important element of real justice. Criminals must restore property including money to the victims and pay for the costs of apprehending and prosecuting them.
2. Corporal punishment. Thailand has proven that caning breaks up violent gangs. In America, gangsters go to prison and are viewed as "tough" and "Gangsta." Beat them with a switch in the public square in front of their homies as they cry like bitches and suddenly they don't look so tough, being "gangsta" isn't so attractive. As gangs continue thrive and expand in America, they have dropped by half in Thailand since corporal punishment was reintroduced two decades back.
3. Capital Punishment. Some cannot be redeemed and commit crimes so heinous that they must pay the ultimate price. The recidivism rate among child rapists who have been executed is zero.

Something being controversial has no bearing on whether it is true.

Bear in mind that the goal of the democrat party is to destabilize society, destroy American culture and end the Constitutional Republic.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

We're all guilty of something. Who has the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness if "probably guilty of something" warrants the death penalty?

No, being convicted of a capital crime warrants the death penalty.

But the idea innocent people are just populating death row is absurd. If you get arrested, convicted, and appeals rejected in a capital case you are either guilty or are a bad enough criminal you cannot be considered innocent

 

[lwf]

The question can be turned on it's head and posed as, "Would you be so against the death penalty if it was your mother, sister, or child killed by a murderer after being violently raped?" I know some would stick to that principle. I know some that think they would in that situation but actually would not it it became a reality.

How I would feel and what the government should legislate need not align. Of course I would want to exact vengeance on someone who murdered a loved one. The question is: should the government therefore legislate this vengeance?

The risk of exacting irreversible vengeance on an innocent person is too high. An incarcerated innocent person can be (and often is) exonerated and set free with a clean record. An executed innocent person cannot be un-executed.

 

[Spakian]

Go ahead and tell the percentage or number of additional murders by serial killers are A-OK with you? The recidivism rate for executed serial killers is zero.

If you think execution is so useful, then go ahead and execute everyone who enters prisons. We won't even need jails anymore!

 

[lwf]

No, being convicted of a capital crime warrants the death penalty.

But the idea innocent people are just populating death row is absurd. If you get arrested, convicted, and appeals rejected in a capital case you are either guilty or are a bad enough criminal you cannot be considered innocent

"Guilty of a capital offense" and "bad enough" are not synonymous. If you are not guilty of a capital crime, then it is unjust to execute you no matter how guilty you are of any other crimes or how "bad" the public assumes you probably are. The punishment does not fit the crime.

 

[COTO]

Help me understand,

Conservatives believe we need to keep government small. They believe government is corrupt and that it cannot be trusted to do the right thing. They believe government is fallible and often screws up...

So how the hell does it make sense for someone who believes those things to think that same corrupt and fallible institution should have the power to execute human beings based on that corrupt and fallible institution's own trials?

I support the death penalty because it's the only just punishment for depraved murder. This judgment stands firm regardless of the integrity of the process by which guilt and innocence are determined.

Even if I believed there existed a high probability of a man being sentenced to death despite having committed no crime(s) worthy of death (I don't), handing out an unjust punishment to guilty and innocent parties alike isn't a solution to the problem. Two wrongs don't make a right

 

[Uncensored2008]

Why do most Democrats love criminals so much?

Because they hate America so much.

 

[Fishking]

How I would feel and what the government should legislate need not align. Of course I would want to exact vengeance on someone who murdered a loved one. The question is: should the government therefore legislate this vengeance?

The risk of exacting irreversible vengeance on an innocent person is too high. An incarcerated innocent person can be (and often is) exonerated and set free with a clean record. An executed innocent person cannot be un-executed.

It's not a matter of how you feel. I didn't ask how you'd feel. I'm saying would you still be against the government enacting the death penalty.

 

[joko104]

If you think execution is so useful, then go ahead and execute everyone who enters prisons. We won't even need jails anymore!

Desperate hyperbole much?

I support the death penalty in cases involving sadist murder for these reasons:

1. To insure the person never harms anyone again - and that includes in prison.
2. Because solitary confinement is the cruelest of all tortures, so it is not an alternative.
3. Because the victim(s) including the survivors have a right to justice.
4. Taxpayers should not spend millions housing and caring for sadistic murderers for life.
5. To have the tier of punishment to reduce the point where a person can just keep raping and murdering with nothing left at risk.

I would be agreeable to adding a jury required to find the murder was torturous and sadistic or other terms, even potentially more than 1 person murdered. A young adult robs a store, shooting and killing the clerk? Maybe that person could be "fixed" to not do so again and eventually released. But sadistic torturous murder? Serial rapist/murderer? No.

 

[lwf]

It's not a matter of how you feel. I didn't ask how you'd feel. I'm saying would you still be against the government enacting the death penalty.

Yes I would be.