Conservative Vulture Capitalism

[NatMorton]

“No government of the left has done as much for the poor as capitalism has. Even when it comes to the redistribution of income, the left talks the talk but the free market walks the walk.

What do the poor most need? They need to stop being poor. And how can that be done, on a mass scale, except by an economy that creates vastly more wealth? Yet the political left has long had a remarkable lack of interest in how wealth is created. As far as they are concerned, wealth exists somehow and the only interesting question is how to redistribute it.”

― Thomas Sowell

 

[Peacenik]

This sort of thread is a great example of why leftism creates such misery.

Producing things is hard. It takes effort. It takes capital to produce things efficiently. The left is always at war with producing things efficiently.

In times like we have now the problem of being at war with producers is obvious to (almost) all. Shelves are empty. Goods are stocked out. Inflation is rampant. Energy costs are soaring. The left has its hand in policies that contribute to all of this. You just have to take a basic economics course to understand this, so the left is at war with basic economics too.

And worst of all, as it destroys the capacity to produce things the left never is happy. There’s always someone somewhere achieving success that needs to be torn down. The work of destroying the productive in society is never done. You look at countries like Venezuela that totally destroy production and the response is never “oh, we finally did it there is no wealth” the response is totalitarian crackdowns to ensure the left is not required to answer to the people for the destruction it has wrought.

This post is nothing but a repetition of myths and stereotypes.

Examples of rich people who have been taxed into poverty? (crickets) There is not one example. Never happened. No individual is being stripped of wealth through taxation to support social programs. The wealthy are still wealthy after all their taxes have been paid. If any wealthy person loses their wealth, it is because of bad decisions on their part, or capitalist market circumstances, not being overtaxed.

The measure of a nation is not how rich the richest are. It is how well off the poorest are.

Capitalism is great for increasing the wealth of those who already have capital. Particularly those born into it. Capitalism has no obligation to provide anything for society. Capitalism is a powerful economic system which serves society best when properly regulated by government.

If there were no government regulation, capitalism would run amok and self-destruct. Government is how our nation is organized. Government is the difference between a free country and anarchy. We must rely on our government to control capitalism. Properly regulated capitalism produces, yes, but it also generates mass poverty. Capitalism is not even mentioned in our Constitution. The purpose of our government is stated in the Preamble. It is not to make the rich richer. It is, among other goals, to Promote the General Welfare.

 

[Peacenik]

I'm pleased we're in agreement that the "Social Security Trust Fund" is nonexistent and is no more than an accounting gimmick. Because if it were real, SS would still function without everyone being "in."

We are entitled to post our own views. We are not entitled to put words into the mouths of others.

You do not speak for me. I am not accountable for things you make up and attribute to me.

Ya wanna talk about the subject, fine. Make your own comment.

Here is my view:

Vulture capitalism is too destructive to allow. It causes more financial distress for too many, while enriching a very few. And it is often predicated on lies. "Oh, we will take good care of your company and all your dedicated employees who have given the better part of their lives for this, don't worry. Just sign here, and we'll give you a big reward for selling out."

And then as soon as it is signed assets are sold off, workers fired, quality forgotten in the interest of profit. Production offshored.

How does that serve America?

 

[Peacenik]

Ah, no. Your premise has been proven wrong, and now you're just trying to pick up the pieces. You might as well be yelling at clouds.

If you had a good argument you would not need to be mean about it. Adding that edge is what suggests a lack of confidence in having a good argument in the first place. A good argument would stand on it's own merit and requires no such embellishment.

 

[Peacenik]

Capitalism is the worst system, except for all the others.

At it's core, it's economic Democracy. Jeff Bezos is willing to offer you pond pump for 40 bucks and you freely agree to purchase it The lefties can only see that you are 40 dollars poorer and he is 40 dollars richer, but that's because they've been indoctrinated with Robert Reich and Elizabeth Warren nonsense for years.

There is no requirement or condition which compels a choice between capitalism and socialism. We are free to utilize the best of each, while minimizing the worst of each. We control how to strike the balance through our government. Right now, we are not doing a very good job. The vision of America is a nation of the people, by the people and for the people; but the reality is that America is a nation of the rich, by the rich and for the rich.

And that's not right.

America is stronger when everyone is doing well.

 

[Bear5131]

There is no requirement or condition which compels a choice between capitalism and socialism. We are free to utilize the best of each, while minimizing the worst of each. We control how to strike the balance through our government. Right now, we are not doing a very good job. The vision of America is a nation of the people, by the people and for the people; but the reality is that America is a nation of the rich, by the rich and for the rich.

And that's not right.

America is stronger when everyone is doing well.

What do you suggest?


My main problem with socialism is lazy people ( like I worked with in a union manufacturing company) they hate people like me who works his ass off.

The other problem is everyone wants something from the government for noting ,not realizing the high cost of taxes, low home ownership we see in Scandinavian countries

 

[Peacenik]

“No government of the left has done as much for the poor as capitalism has. Even when it comes to the redistribution of income, the left talks the talk but the free market walks the walk.

What do the poor most need? They need to stop being poor. And how can that be done, on a mass scale, except by an economy that creates vastly more wealth? Yet the political left has long had a remarkable lack of interest in how wealth is created. As far as they are concerned, wealth exists somehow and the only interesting question is how to redistribute it.”

― Thomas Sowell

What utter nonsense. No wonder such derogatory stereotypes exist. That is the kind of statement that divides America, and thus is very bad for America. We need to learn how to work together, end hatred, learn respect, coordinate all of our efforts collectively to create a better nation for all.

Capitalism has no goal to provide liberty and justice for all. Capitalism is a system that increases the wealth of the richest the most, and greatly diminishes the rewards for effort along the spectrum from the richest to the poorest so that those at the bottom of the spectrum work very hard and are rewarded so little that they are unable to climb out of poverty. That poverty is then handed down to the next generation where the same thing naturally happens to them as well, and it generally continues with few exceptions unless government social assistance programs intercede.

The richest hand down so much wealth to their descendants that they never have to work a day in their lives, and their only obligation, out of guilt we are to presume, is to attempt to increase the amount of wealth they are born with in a strange effort to prove a reason for their existence, because they have been deprived of the need to make it on their own.

 

[Peacenik]

What do you suggest?


My main problem with socialism is lazy people ( like I worked with in a union manufacturing company) they hate people like me who works his ass off.

The other problem is everyone wants something from the government for noting ,not realizing the high cost of taxes, low home ownership we see in Scandinavian countries

Those were lazy people who were employed in a capitalist venture, correct?

Capitalism, therefore, does not eliminate laziness. Nor does socialism produce it. There is no profit in a vast number of types of work, but those lines of work are filled with hard working people. Most workers, actually, do not share in profits. Most workers are paid a set wage to do a job. It is the investors and owners of a business who get a share of the profits. Some workers get profit-sharing. And that is sometimes the result of union negotiations!

Consider the military. People work very hard to do a good job there. They get no profits. Why are they not lazy? Good leadership. Dedication to principle. Goal setting and striving to achieve.

Laziness has nothing to do with capitalism or socialism.

Everyone does not want something for nothing. That is a myth. Most people actually like to work hard and feel like they are rewarded for their efforts. Staying busy and productive is the best way to enjoy a day at work. Being paid to do absolutely nothing would be a long a boring day!

 

[Bear5131]

Those were lazy people who were employed in a capitalist venture, correct?

Capitalism, therefore, does not eliminate laziness. Nor does socialism produce it. There is no profit in a vast number of types of work, but those lines of work are filled with hard working people. Most workers, actually, do not share in profits. Most workers are paid a set wage to do a job. It is the investors and owners of a business who get a share of the profits. Some workers get profit-sharing. And that is sometimes the result of union negotiations!

Consider the military. People work very hard to do a good job there. They get no profits. Why are they not lazy? Good leadership. Dedication to principle. Goal setting and striving to achieve.

Laziness has nothing to do with capitalism or socialism.

Everyone does not want something for nothing. That is a myth. Most people actually like to work hard and feel like they are rewarded for their efforts. Staying busy and productive is the best way to enjoy a day at work. Being paid to do absolutely nothing would be a long a boring day!

Working in a US manufacturing union was the closest I experienced to Socialism, it's almost impossible to fire incompetent workers

 

[Torus34]

Pure capitalism is modeled in the game of Monopoly(r). Those who have played it know the inevitable conclusion.

Capitalism, as practiced in societies, is modified by laws. The actual form it takes is determined by them. Properly legislated, capitalism can provide wealth which benefits the society as a whole. There are a number of countries in which capitalism is a part of the economic system. A number of metrics can be used to evaluate how well it benefits the various societies.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

[Peacenik]

Working in a US manufacturing union was the closest I experienced to Socialism, it's almost impossible to fire incompetent workers

There is no profit motive for most workers.

I am not proposing that we switch to a socialist economy. Not at all. We should continue to mix capitalism and socialism. The main reason socialism gets a big put-down is because greedy rich people seek to maximize their wealth by minimizing their tax burden. They fund propaganda myths which claim that socialism is all bad all the time, should never be allowed in any form in any place, that it has failed everywhere it has been tried, always leads to more failure, destroys everything in it's path, and turns everyone lazy. This is all nonsense.

Think about it. If socialism has always failed everywhere it has been tried, then why would anyone try it? That makes no sense.

If it destroys everything in it's path then why on Earth would anyone want it? Again, this makes no sense that anyone would. It would have to be crazy people. And that leads to the myth that all liberals are crazy people. And the one about how 'liberals want to destroy America.' That makes no sense either. Why would anyone want to destroy their own nation? It's ridiculous. Oh, but 'liberals are ridiculous people,' And on and on and on. Endless myths, forwarded by the power of big money from the greedy super-rich power junkies, so everyday conservatives will refuse to listen to liberals. And hate them.

Why are the rich people so afraid of good hard working conservatives listening to liberals? Logically, smart conservatives should be able to listen to others who hold different views without being harmed or driven to hatred.

The biggest problem for America is the politically driven hatred which prevents having respectful conversations, talking about our issues, nor possibly even brain-storming some agreeable solutions. That is the one thing the greedy super-rich do not want. If we did that, we might be able to spread the prosperity around much more equitably.

Right now, wealth is way too concentrated in the hands of a very few people. Most people are working hard, but only a few are getting super-rich. That's not right. We need our government to crack down on greed and end the legalized corruption.

This is not meant to begrudge the rich. Anyone in this country may seek great wealth, or simply be born into it of no choice of their own. What they do with it is of concern to society, since great wealth represents great power. That power can be used for good or bad. We want all the good we can get, and the least bad allowable. That's why we need a powerful government to stand up to the power of great wealth in bad hands.

Great wealth in bad hands is a good description of Vulture Capitalism.

 

[NatMorton]

We are entitled to post our own views. We are not entitled to put words into the mouths of others.

You do not speak for me. I am not accountable for things you make up and attribute to me.

Ya wanna talk about the subject, fine. Make your own comment.

Here is my view:

Vulture capitalism is too destructive to allow. It causes more financial distress for too many, while enriching a very few. And it is often predicated on lies. "Oh, we will take good care of your company and all your dedicated employees who have given the better part of their lives for this, don't worry. Just sign here, and we'll give you a big reward for selling out."

And then as soon as it is signed assets are sold off, workers fired, quality forgotten in the interest of profit. Production offshored.

How does that serve America?

Whether you realize it or not, what I said is a direct consequence of what you said. If you believe SS can’t survive without 100% working enrollment, then we must conclude it is not an old age insurance program worthily of the name. It can’t survive as constituted for one simply reason: there is no Trust Fund in any meaningful sense of the term. The money you pay in goes right out the door to pay others’ benefits and other spending priorities.

SS is far closer to a Ponzi scheme than it is an insurance program. Any private insurance program discovered to be handling premiums they way SS does would be shut down for fraud by the end of the week.

 

[NatMorton]

If you had a good argument you would not need to be mean about it. Adding that edge is what suggests a lack of confidence in having a good argument in the first place. A good argument would stand on it's own merit and requires no such embellishment.

I don’t care if you think I’m mean. Your argument has problems, and I simply pointed them out.

 

[NatMorton]

What utter nonsense. No wonder such derogatory stereotypes exist. That is the kind of statement that divides America, and thus is very bad for America. We need to learn how to work together, end hatred, learn respect, coordinate all of our efforts collectively to create a better nation for all.

Capitalism has no goal to provide liberty and justice for all. Capitalism is a system that increases the wealth of the richest the most, and greatly diminishes the rewards for effort along the spectrum from the richest to the poorest so that those at the bottom of the spectrum work very hard and are rewarded so little that they are unable to climb out of poverty. That poverty is then handed down to the next generation where the same thing naturally happens to them as well, and it generally continues with few exceptions unless government social assistance programs intercede.

The richest hand down so much wealth to their descendants that they never have to work a day in their lives, and their only obligation, out of guilt we are to presume, is to attempt to increase the amount of wealth they are born with in a strange effort to prove a reason for their existence, because they have been deprived of the need to make it on their own.

You really don’t have a good grasp of what capitalism is or how it works. But if you know of a different economic system that has had more success lifting the masses from poverty and servitude, let’s heare about it.

 

[Peacenik]

Whether you realize it or not, what I said is a direct consequence of what you said. If you believe SS can’t survive without 100% working enrollment, then we must conclude it is not an old age insurance program worthily of the name. It can’t survive as constituted for one simply reason: there is no Trust Fund in any meaningful sense of the term. The money you pay in goes right out the door to pay others’ benefits and other spending priorities.

SS is far closer to a Ponzi scheme than it is an insurance program. Any private insurance program discovered to be handling premiums they way SS does would be shut down for fraud by the end of the week.

The only problem with SS is that the rate of American births has dropped and there are fewer workers supporting the more numerous boomers as they retire. Easily solved by allowing far more immigration. That will also provide the greatly needed work force to fill the demand for workers. Currently there are two unfilled jobs for every job seeker in America.

Two birds. One stone. Help solve the border crisis and SS funding at the same time. We spend less on the border issue, increase production, get more people paying into SS, and it's a three-for.