Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues[W:255]

[Thunder]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

No one is preventing you from exercising your religion. The specific act of buying alcohol on Sunday, is not a part of your religion. You show me where in the Torah is says, you must go and buy your alcohol on Sunday.

Not there? Then we're not violating what isn't there.

You can buy your alcohol Monday through Saturday, and drink it all Sunday long.

Until you find a specific constitutional right to buy beer on Sunday, or show me where in your Torah it says you must buy your wine on Sunday..... then you have no claim to make.

The end.

if I need more wine for my Passover Seder on Sunday, but I can't buy any because some Christians have decided that I shouldn't have the right to buy alcohol during the Christian Sabbath, than my religious rights have been violated.

 

[Fiddytree]

that is really priceless.

Justice Warren entered the majority opinion with the dualistic purpose behind the Blue Law in 1961. It's what folks around here approach it with as well. Don't know what's so priceless about it. People liked the Sunday off or the shortened hours.

 

[TurtleDude]

Justice Warren entered the majority opinion with the dualistic purpose behind the Blue Law in 1961. It's what folks around here approach it with as well. Don't know what's so priceless about it. People liked the Sunday off or the shortened hours.

quoting warren to me is pretty worthless

you cannot justify banning someone from doing something on another person's sabbath

if a wine shop is closed on sunday because its owners attend church-that is fine

but its bogus to tell a jewish guy he cannot operate his wine cellar on sunday

 

[Fiddytree]

quoting warren to me is pretty worthless

you cannot justify banning someone from doing something on another person's sabbath

if a wine shop is closed on sunday because its owners attend church-that is fine

but its bogus to tell a jewish guy he cannot operate his wine cellar on sunday

The conversation in these parts was rather more like, "do we really need to be open on a Sunday?" In our local area, the Jewish example had no applicability, nor any serious concern locally. Around these parts it was simply a matter of convenience that pushed the issue to the forefront. The owners of the liquor stores in this particular city (in North Dakota we have separate establishments for liquor) reluctantly moved forward with complying with new interest in Sunday shopping, taking business away from stores in neighboring towns that benefited from those who were desperate enough to drive out to get beer (and it was mostly beer).

I won't speak to what they are like in New Jersey or any other states than maybe Montana and North Dakota. Around here, we do just fine, and that is that.

Also going back to one of Arbo's thoughts, we don't have a strip joint in that city nor in the town across the river. The town across the river voted to remove the strip joint for the good of the community some years ago. They and the close neighbor city haven't really looked back since. In the whole state there's 4. We're just pretty conservative folk.

 

[cpwill]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

we could make it harder for them, by requiring background checks for ALL gun sales.

Marijuana doesn't just require a background check, it is outright illegal.


I dare you to name me a single public high school in America where untrained children can't get their hands on it.


:roll: or you can make the argument that untrained, inexperienced children are better at acquiring and moving illegal goods without notice than experienced terrorists who have done it before across borders much more hostile than ours.



Mind you, there are gun control laws that would have a debilitating effect on the ability of terrorists to launch effective domestic attacks within CONUS. You could, for example, arm nearly everybody. That would just about do it.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

Marijuana doesn't just require a background check, it is outright illegal.


I dare you to name me a single public high school in America where untrained children can't get their hands on it.


:roll: or you can make the argument that untrained, inexperienced children are better at acquiring and moving illegal goods without notice than experienced terrorists who have done it before across borders much more hostile than ours.



Mind you, there are gun control laws that would have a debilitating effect on the ability of terrorists to launch effective domestic attacks within CONUS. You could, for example, arm nearly everybody. That would just about do it.

Yes, pot is illegal, therefore not controlled, and therefore any high school kid who wants pot can get it.

And yes, an armed populace would make a better deterrent for terrorism than trying to take the guns away from the terrorists.

Moreover, that illegal pot is funneling money to the terrorists via the drug cartels. Take the illegal profits away from pot, and you strike a blow against terrorism.

 

[Sparkles]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

if I need more wine for my Passover Seder on Sunday, but I can't buy any because some Christians have decided that I shouldn't have the right to buy alcohol during the Christian Sabbath, than my religious rights have been violated.

No, sorry. You don't have a "right to buy alcohol" on any day, than you due to get prescription drugs at the super market. When people showed up on Sunday demanding their drugs, we told them to.... *GASP!* Buy them on Monday when the drug counter opened. One lady complained to us, and asked what she was supposed to do until Monday. We told her to spend her time thinking about why she couldn't make it in during the other 6 days, and to come up with a plan so it doesn't happen again.

(Yes she did complain at the manager about what we said. Yes we did completely ignore her and the manager. No, nothing happened to us for saying that to her.)

There is no "right to buy X" anywhere in the constitution. Your incompetence at buying how much wine you need during the 6 days the stores are open, is not grounds for you to claim your made-up rights are being violated on the one day the stores are closed.

Sorry, you are wrong.

Instead of wasting everyone's time, and making everyone hate Jews for being obnoxious, if it really is so hard to buy wine in the 313 days a year you can buy it.... well then here's a thought: Buy some of those home-made wine kits that makes 5 or 6 gallons each. I knew a guy who never bought wine, because he made strawberry wine at home, and even sold bottles of the stuff out of his car.

But of course you are not going to do that, because this isn't about your ability to buy your wine is it? This is about you trying to enforce your will on society, which is why people hate Jews.

 

[Sparkles]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

Yes, pot is illegal, therefore not controlled, and therefore any high school kid who wants pot can get it.

Exactly. And we all know that regulation is a prefect solution to any problem. Just look at the banking system. The most highly regulated industry in our economy, and it never has problems. Ever since massive regulations in the 70s under Carter, we've never had a banking problem in the US at all.

Just like control alcohol after legalization completely solved that problem. Why, when I was in high school I absolutely never saw under age drinking. With the minor exceptions of football games, during lunch period, during school dances, after school beer pong parties, and often on school field trips, I have never seen under age drinking. Not once other than those few exceptions! So obviously, given how 'controlling' alcohol has solved all alcohol related problem, legalizing pot and having it 'controlled' would solve illegal drug use.

In fact, we should just legalize vandalism, and solve illegal artwork.

And yes, an armed populace would make a better deterrent for terrorism than trying to take the guns away from the terrorists.

And domestic crime of all types. I agree.

Moreover, that illegal pot is funneling money to the terrorists via the drug cartels. Take the illegal profits away from pot, and you strike a blow against terrorism.

Given the fact that legal businesses also fund terrorist groups...... I'm not sure why you would think that making illegal pot growing into legal pot growing, would change who these people choose to fund. You certainly wouldn't eliminate the profits, and in fact you may make it even more profitable.

I would suspect that, illegal pot farmers would simply become legal pot farmers. The profits would be money laundered back to terrorist groups, just as it is now. The only difference is, they wouldn't need to hide their crops anymore, and could easily expand production. Of course if pot was legalized, there would be far more people ruining their lives addicted to drug use. So profits would dramatically increase. Which would mean even more money would be sent back to terrorist groups.

Now, it is possible you are right, but unfortunately if you are wrong, things will become far worse than ever before. This is one of those pandora's boxes, that once opened can't be shut. Once we legalize drugs, it will be nearly impossible to ban them again. So this is a one way street.

I am sympathetic to the hemp legalization movement, but given how high the stakes are, I sure want more assurance that it won't make things worse.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

...But of course you are not going to do that, because this isn't about your ability to buy your wine is it? This is about you trying to enforce your will on society, which is why people hate Jews.

No, people hate Jews because they are full of hatred & ignorance.

and NO, protecting MINE and the Constitutional rights of other non-Christians, is NOT why people hate Jews.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

No, sorry. You don't have a "right to buy alcohol" on any day, than you due to get prescription drugs at the super market. When people showed up on Sunday demanding their drugs, we told them to.... *GASP!* Buy them on Monday when the drug counter opened. One lady complained to us, and asked what she was supposed to do until Monday. We told her to spend her time thinking about why she couldn't make it in during the other 6 days, and to come up with a plan so it doesn't happen again.

(Yes she did complain at the manager about what we said. Yes we did completely ignore her and the manager. No, nothing happened to us for saying that to her.)

There is no "right to buy X" anywhere in the constitution. Your incompetence at buying how much wine you need during the 6 days the stores are open, is not grounds for you to claim your made-up rights are being violated on the one day the stores are closed.

Sorry, you are wrong.

Instead of wasting everyone's time, and making everyone hate Jews for being obnoxious, if it really is so hard to buy wine in the 313 days a year you can buy it.... well then here's a thought: Buy some of those home-made wine kits that makes 5 or 6 gallons each. I knew a guy who never bought wine, because he made strawberry wine at home, and even sold bottles of the stuff out of his car.

But of course you are not going to do that, because this isn't about your ability to buy your wine is it? This is about you trying to enforce your will on society, which is why people hate Jews.

I think the point is being missed

IF YOU -as a retailer do not want to be open on Sunday that is YOUR BUSINESS and that is your RIGHT

if on the other hand, the GOVERNMENT tells you that you cannot sell pharmaceuticals or spirits on sunday that is a VIOLATION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT because its a religious based restriction

 

[Sparkles]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

No, people hate Jews because they are full of hatred & ignorance.

and NO, protecting MINE and the Constitutional rights of other non-Christians, is NOT why people hate Jews.

Yes of course, the non-right to buy beer on Sunday that is in the Constitution just above.... where? Right next to that requirement to buy wine on Sunday located right there in the Torah... in the book of..... remind me again?

Oh and.... isn't the Jewish Sabbath when you would need the wine... ON SATURDAY?? You know... when the stores are open anyway? See, you are just trying to impose yourself on others. This isn't about alcohol, or your little religious crap.

Listen, you can attribute peoples hatred of Jews to whatever you wish, that's fine. Whatever makes you feel better about it is ok with me. But you are not the first obnoxious Jewish person I've met. And oddly in every instance, they have made a point to show off their Jewishness while bugging the snot out of people.

You do know that the book of Revelations in the Christian new testament, says that before the end times (whenever that is), that there is going to be a persecution of the Jews world wide, and that would include the US. I used to think that was impossible... but more and more, I'm beginning to see how that might come about. You might want to think about that before you start demanding your non-existent rights and imposing on other Americans. I personally don't care about this specific issue, as I don't drink anyway. So whichever of you wins on the alcohol rule, is irrelevant to me. But you might find winning a small battle, could end up costing you a very large war.

You might look at Asians who come here and put effort into integrating with society, and end up doing better than white Americans. Part of that, is the fact they don't try and impose themselves on society, which is exactly why they do so well.

Or you can keep doing what your doing, and pretending world wide hatred of Jews is just because everyone on the planet is full of "hatred & ignorance".

FYI. I personally do not hate Jews. I'm just making an observation. You can take it or leave it as you wish.

 

[Sparkles]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

I think the point is being missed

IF YOU -as a retailer do not want to be open on Sunday that is YOUR BUSINESS and that is your RIGHT

if on the other hand, the GOVERNMENT tells you that you cannot sell pharmaceuticals or spirits on sunday that is a VIOLATION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT because its a religious based restriction

Well, I disagree.

The limitations of the Constitution were for the Federal Government. Not the local. Localities have the right to make rules. If my city decided to make it law that Movie Theaters must be closed on Friday nights, they constitutionally have the right to make that law.

Remember, the constitution was written as a limit to FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. The Federal Government was supposed to be limited to the specifically stated constitutional abilities given. However, *ALL RIGHTS RESERVED FOR THE STATE* meant that everything that was not a right of the Federal Government, was reserved for the state.

That means that everything, meaning everything, the Federal Government can not do, the States had the right to do. Now obviously things like equality under the law means you can't have legalized slavery in a state. But as far as commerce and other business practices, they can limited nearly anything they choose. This includes the control of gambling. The regulation, or prohibition of fireworks. The sale of guns. The sale of Tobacco. In fact, it can control the sale of Soda pop, like New York is doing.

Now you can say it's dumb and they shouldn't do it. That's fine. I don't agree with controlling and limiting the sale of soda. But... New York has the right to do that. And... same is true of Alcohol.

Further, the first Amendment is that you are not allowed to make a law that restricts someone from their religion. Preventing the sale of alcohol one day a week, does not restrict anyone's religion. Until you can show me a valid religion anywhere that requires practitioners "Must go and buy alcohol on Sunday" then no one is having their first amendment rights violated, anymore than having no turn-on-red during the weekend, violates someone's religious rights.

I'm sorry people. You can't just makeup whatever rights you want whenever it fits your argument.

 

[Sparkles]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

No, sorry. You don't have a "right to buy alcohol" on any day, than you due to get prescription drugs at the super market. When people showed up on Sunday demanding their drugs, we told them to.... *GASP!* Buy them on Monday when the drug counter opened. One lady complained to us, and asked what she was supposed to do until Monday. We told her to spend her time thinking about why she couldn't make it in during the other 6 days, and to come up with a plan so it doesn't happen again.

(Yes she did complain at the manager about what we said. Yes we did completely ignore her and the manager. No, nothing happened to us for saying that to her.)

There is no "right to buy X" anywhere in the constitution. Your incompetence at buying how much wine you need during the 6 days the stores are open, is not grounds for you to claim your made-up rights are being violated on the one day the stores are closed.

Sorry, you are wrong.

Instead of wasting everyone's time, and making everyone hate Jews for being obnoxious, if it really is so hard to buy wine in the 313 days a year you can buy it.... well then here's a thought: Buy some of those home-made wine kits that makes 5 or 6 gallons each. I knew a guy who never bought wine, because he made strawberry wine at home, and even sold bottles of the stuff out of his car.

But of course you are not going to do that, because this isn't about your ability to buy your wine is it? This is about you trying to enforce your will on society, which is why people hate Jews.

There seems to be some confusion on my position on Jewish people, or at least some of the forum administrators seem confused.

As clear as I can say it..... I do not have any problem with Jews. I am simply making an observation.

So for my own clarification, is it considered hate speech to admit openly that some people do in fact hate Jews? Further, is it considered hate speech to theorize that possibly the conduct of some individuals might be causing some of this hate? Is making an accurate observation of the world around us, considered hate speech?



Am I myself spreading hate speech, by pointing out this OWS protester?

Because I clearly have no intention of spreading hate speech (unless you count hate for an ideology that ruins every country that follows it, referring to leftism). I am simply making an observation.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

There seems to be some confusion on my position on Jewish people, or at least some of the forum administrators seem confused.

As clear as I can say it..... I do not have any problem with Jews. I am simply making an observation.

So for my own clarification, is it considered hate speech to admit openly that some people do in fact hate Jews? Further, is it considered hate speech to theorize that possibly the conduct of some individuals might be causing some of this hate?....

saying that only obnoxious Jews fight to defend their religious freedoms, and the reason why the world hates Jews is because they fight to not have their liberties curtailed by the views of non-Jews...certainly isn't saying nice things about Jews.

we have the right, especially in the USA, to be able to do whatever we want, and not have Christian religious-motivated laws decide what we can and cannot do. that is PRECISELY what the 1st Amendment Establishment Clause is all about.

and this cannot be disregarded by calling us "obnoxious".

 

[Sparkles]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

saying that only obnoxious Jews fight to defend their religious freedoms, and the reason why the world hates Jews is because they fight to not have their liberties curtailed by the views of non-Jews...certainly isn't saying nice things about Jews.

But I didn't say that. You are not fighting for your religious freedom, because you already have your religious freedom. Your fighting other peoples rights to self-govern, by saying they can't make a law that doesn't effect you.

You are in effect being obnoxious to those who support those laws. Fighting against something that doesn't effect you, is obnoxious. Being obnoxious has nothing to do with you being a Jew, it has to do with you being obnoxious. I am making the observation that other people, may see a different connection.

we have the right, especially in the USA, to be able to do whatever we want, and not have Christian religious-motivated laws decide what we can and cannot do. that is PRECISELY what the 1st Amendment Establishment Clause is all about.

and this cannot be disregarded by calling us "obnoxious".

No, actually you don't. You have rights within the framework of the law. And no, it isn't want the 1st amendment is all about.

Until you can show me where not drinking alcohol on Sunday is in the Christian Bible, then that law is merely a choice of the society.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

But I didn't say that. You are not fighting for your religious freedom, because you already have your religious freedom. Your fighting other peoples rights to self-govern, by saying they can't make a law that doesn't effect you....

peoples' right to self-govern ends when my religious rights begin to be violated.

if I can't buy more Passover wine on Sunday because Christians have decided that I as a Jew should not be able to buy wine on Sunday, then my religious rights are being violated.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

Well, I disagree.

The limitations of the Constitution were for the Federal Government. Not the local. Localities have the right to make rules. If my city decided to make it law that Movie Theaters must be closed on Friday nights, they constitutionally have the right to make that law.

Remember, the constitution was written as a limit to FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. The Federal Government was supposed to be limited to the specifically stated constitutional abilities given. However, *ALL RIGHTS RESERVED FOR THE STATE* meant that everything that was not a right of the Federal Government, was reserved for the state.

That means that everything, meaning everything, the Federal Government can not do, the States had the right to do. Now obviously things like equality under the law means you can't have legalized slavery in a state. But as far as commerce and other business practices, they can limited nearly anything they choose. This includes the control of gambling. The regulation, or prohibition of fireworks. The sale of guns. The sale of Tobacco. In fact, it can control the sale of Soda pop, like New York is doing.

Now you can say it's dumb and they shouldn't do it. That's fine. I don't agree with controlling and limiting the sale of soda. But... New York has the right to do that. And... same is true of Alcohol.

Further, the first Amendment is that you are not allowed to make a law that restricts someone from their religion. Preventing the sale of alcohol one day a week, does not restrict anyone's religion. Until you can show me a valid religion anywhere that requires practitioners "Must go and buy alcohol on Sunday" then no one is having their first amendment rights violated, anymore than having no turn-on-red during the weekend, violates someone's religious rights.

I'm sorry people. You can't just makeup whatever rights you want whenever it fits your argument.

Your argument evaporated with the 14th amendment

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

peoples' right to self-govern ends when my religious rights begin to be violated.

if I can't buy more Passover wine on Sunday because Christians have decided that I as a Jew should not be able to buy wine on Sunday, then my religious rights are being violated.

I can't say that I have known a lot of Jews, but I have known a few. Other than you, I've never known one who was as obsessed with alcohol as you seem to be. I do not believe that your obsession with alcohol has anything to do with your claimed Jewish faith.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

The issue seems to be with requiring that businesses be closed on the Sabbath. The question is, whose sabbath, and who has the right to say that a business can't be open on a particular day?

IMO, the business owner should be the sole authority of whether the business is or is not open on a particular day.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

The issue seems to be with requiring that businesses be closed on the Sabbath. The question is, whose sabbath, and who has the right to say that a business can't be open on a particular day?

IMO, the business owner should be the sole authority of whether the business is or is not open on a particular day.

exactly and while I believe the government has the power to say close the Post office delivery on the "Christian Sabbath" vs the Jewish Sabbath, the government certainly should not dictate that a Jewish business owner or an atheist or agnostic close his business on a sunday

 

[Thunder]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

The issue seems to be with requiring that businesses be closed on the Sabbath. The question is, whose sabbath, and who has the right to say that a business can't be open on a particular day?

IMO, the business owner should be the sole authority of whether the business is or is not open on a particular day.

Im talking about restricting what we can and cannot buy, even when a store remains opened..for purely religious reasons.

are they trying to keep us from getting liver cancer? nope. they just don't want us drinking on Sunday, and that just happens to violate my religious freedom.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

Im talking about restricting what we can and cannot buy, even when a store remains opened..for purely religious reasons.

are they trying to keep us from getting liver cancer? nope. they just don't want us drinking on Sunday, and that just happens to violate my religious freedom.

It's still the same principle. The customer should be the sole decider of what to buy on a particular day, assuming that the business is open and ready to sell.

Do you belong to a church that worships god through alcohol? (just kidding!)

 

[Thunder]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

It's still the same principle. The customer should be the sole decider of what to buy on a particular day, assuming that the business is open and ready to sell.

Do you belong to a church that worships god through alcohol? (just kidding!)

Drinking wine is a religious obligation for Jews during Passover.

if your laws somehow prevent me from fulfulling this obligation, my religious freedom is being violated.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

There seems to be some confusion on my position on Jewish people, or at least some of the forum administrators seem confused.

As clear as I can say it..... I do not have any problem with Jews. I am simply making an observation.

So for my own clarification, is it considered hate speech to admit openly that some people do in fact hate Jews? Further, is it considered hate speech to theorize that possibly the conduct of some individuals might be causing some of this hate? Is making an accurate observation of the world around us, considered hate speech?

View attachment 67129838

Am I myself spreading hate speech, by pointing out this OWS protester?

Because I clearly have no intention of spreading hate speech (unless you count hate for an ideology that ruins every country that follows it, referring to leftism). I am simply making an observation.

Moderator's Warning:

If you have questions about moderation, you may NOT post about it publicly... only via PM. Please refer to rule 6A and please do not do this again.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Conservative hypocrisy on many political issues

Drinking wine is a religious obligation for Jews during Passover.

if your laws somehow prevent me from fulfulling this obligation, my religious freedom is being violated.

Good point.

How does current law affect the Rastafarians?