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Re: Confederate Flag
yes. Its a symbol of treason.
yes. Its a symbol of treason.
The GOP rejected the African American vote with Nixon' "Southern Strategy" wherein they specifically targeted the "negrophobes" in the South who were outraged at the passage of the Civil Rights Act.
And have I ever known government to be very effective? That's very easy to answer. What democracies have the highest standards of living for their populations in terms of education, income, safety, and life expectancy? The first-world democracies, of course. And what do ALL first-world democracies have in common? BIG government, HIGH effective taxes, and STRONG regulation.
So...yeah, in the case of ALL the first-world nations of the free world, government IS very effective indeed, as is evinced by the well-being and standards of living of their people.
On the other side of the coin, is there ANY first-world nation that has the conservative trifecta of 'small' government, low effective taxes, and weak regulation? No. Bear in mind that there ARE many such nations...and they're ALL third-world nations.
So...are you going to stick with your dogma, with the crap spoon-fed you by the right-wing echo chamber? Or are you going to base your decision on the REAL-WORLD RESULTS that we see in the world all around us?
I see you forgot to mention that most important factor in the success of first world nations....capitalism.
you need to update the left wing echo chamber so it spoon feeds you better information... forgetting the most important factor is inexcusable.
'Scuse you, but if you want capitalism unbound, then go to almost any of the third-world democracies out there - in almost every case, they've got almost-completely unregulated capitalism, unhindered by high taxes or strong regulation.
And that's not from the "left-wing echo chamber" - that's from actually being there and seeing it first-hand.
"Slavery was a part of every American colony until outlawed in the first Vermont constitution of 1777. Pennsylvania gradually abolished slavery, beginning three years later. Court decisions freed all Massachusetts slaves by 1783. In New York, slavery remained economically important. Emancipation came grudgingly, and not completely until 1827."
New-York Historical Society | New York Divided: Slavery and the Civil War
New York was the slave capitol of the country for 200 years. New York had the largest slave market in the unformed and newly formed country. New York was no different from anywhere else in the country. it evolved...and the southern states also would have evolved in a much more healthy manner.
Now...for all the bull**** about the evil south and living under (gasp) a confederate flag, tell me how well black communities are faring in Northern states? Tell me how they are faring across the country, regardless of the presence of a Confederate flag.
every first world world nation is capitalist... every single one of them (fyi, it's part of the definition of "1st world". )
i'm sorry that makes you sad.
at least i finally got you to admit they are capitalists... that's progress in my bookEvery first-world nation is a REGULATED capitalist nation. Try to find a first-world nation where the capitalism is not strongly regulated - you won't find one.
I've traveled the world, thanks... I even have a home and property in Colombia.However, if you travel to most third-world democracies, you'll certainly find truly deregulated capitalism. I strongly recommend you travel the world a bit, so that you can see it for yourself.
Any that are should be changed. Those who governed and supported the Confederacy committed treason...and it is wrong to keep symbols of treason on our government sites.
There were abolitionists in the south as well. States like Tennessee and Kentucky were already working towards an end to slavery. Point is...no ones **** didnt stink. As long as slavery was profitable New York and other northern states werent exactly charging to let it go.Did I ever say slavery was never in new York? Pretty sure I didn't. If you want to have a conversation about slavery in NY vs the south and compare who was deeper into it, who exploited it further, who had stricter slave laws, and which state was taking actual steps toward abolition I'd be glad to. I am extremely well versed in American history. I never claimed NY was perfect, but they were far more anti slavery than the southern states were. They were nowhere near as bad . When I am on my pc tomorrow rather than a cell phone I will post some of what was taking place in NY toward abolishing slavery prior to the civil war if you'd like. In the meantime you try to look up what was going on in the south. We can compare notes.
There were abolitionists in the south as well.
....
The only people who seem to be defending that rag are white supremacists. Taking that flag down might hurt their feeeeelings.The point is not whether they "can" display it - the point is that you're denigrating something they hold near and dear. They are not the confused ones. The confused ones are those who think it is - or should be seen as - racist.
Your argument is becoming disjointed as you jump back and forth to prove some evasive point. There are undeniable similarties between the flag-banners and both traditional fascism and McCarthy's tactics. All three seek to quell opinions that differ from their own and to legislate thought. McCarthy wasn't just a "Wisconsin Senator." He launched a witch hunt against those he claimed supported communism. Just like now, people were pointing fingers at their neighbors - and McCarthy used it to his advantage. He extolled the evils of communism, although there was very little communism going around. Just as today, there is very little racism associated with the Confederate Flag, as you've been shown.
You are uninformed.That's bull. Most of Southern states created laws barring anti-slavery books, pamphlets, organizations, or even speaking ill against the "peculiar institution" the majority in the South wanted to preserve and expand.
They would even put you in jail for speaking out against it, or printing abolitionist material or preach against it.
The states disallowed gatherings of people who would assemble to discuss anything anti-slavery.
How's that for 1st Amendment rights?
Hell, the South even had even implemented a Gag order to prevent the topic of Slavery from even being discussed in Congress or the tens of thousands of petitions from the Northerners to be even spoken about on the floor of Congress. GAGGED.
Those Southrons trampled the hell out of the precious Constitution -- and abolitionists -
were
NOT WELCOME.
The only people who seem to be defending that rag are white supremacists. Taking that flag down might hurt their feeeeelings.
So you wouldn't mind if white supremacists hung a Nazi flag over your state capital?
Works better if you go feeeeeeelings
Was the Swastika a state or national flag in the United States at one time and I missed it?
You are uninformed.
Kentucky even offered legislation to its state in 1849. Evangelicals preached an end to slavery throughout the 30's and 40s. Obviously they werent the majority...but it was in work.
False comparison.
The confederate battle flag was never a state or national flag and the South was never recognized as a nation.
Incorrect.
Irrelevant. The USA was not recognized as a nation for over a year but they had a flag and then only France recognized them.
Having a flag that represents your cause is independent of being recognized as a nation.
There were abolitionists in the south as well. States like Tennessee and Kentucky were already working towards an end to slavery. Point is...no ones **** didnt stink. As long as slavery was profitable New York and other northern states werent exactly charging to let it go.
.
What you said was New York was moving towards abolition within 10 years of the formation of the country. It was more like 50, and it wasnt like those running the show were happy about it ending...even in New York. And just because NEw York ended slavery before the south did, that doesnt exactly erase 200 years of slave history, now does it? And THAT was the point of the post that you responded to. Not some inane comparison of "our state was better than yours"...but that the Northern states are rather crimson as well.
Is that the Senator Byrd family reunion?Look at those Confederate flags.
They're recruiting....
Published on Jun 8, 2014
Inside The Ku Klux Klan: KKK Explain Their Plan For Expansion
How about you point to the post where I said anyone **** didn't stink? Take your time and be thorough. And to keep with your analogy, everyone's **** did stink, noone denies that, but the **** stunk far worse in the south.
What I was replying to? How about this:
You might want to read of the history of slavery in New York and other Northern states. New York clung to slavery as doggedly as the Southern states did
That is what started this.
Noone clung to slavery like they did in the south. I said in my very first post to you on this thread that NY was far from perfect but to claim they clung to slavery as doggedly as the south did is rediculous. Noone clung to slavery like the south.
Then you started trying to argue when i posted that NY was moving toward abolition within 10 years of this country becoming a country.
You can look up the details. NY had free blacks within 5 years. By 1781 NY state officials voted to free some slaves. By 1790 1 in 3 blacks in NY were free. Most state rulings freed more steps toward abolition freeing more slaves in 1791. Again, as I have said in every post, NY was far from perfect, but they were working toward abolition far before the south was. Slaves fled the south and headed north where they would have a chance. They didn't flee the south because it was sooooo much better there. As far as your claim of profitability goes, there were slaves being freed while slavery was profitable. And furthermore, when was slavery not profitable? It was free labor.
When it comes to slavery and the historic treatment of blacks, yes every states **** stinks (which noone has denied) but the south stunk far worse. It isn't even close.
And furthermore, when was slavery not profitable? It was free labor.
You jumped into the conversation defending New York. New York had a 200 year history of shame. Deal with it.
So everybody who is in favor of the flag, let me ask you this.
What if you were Jewish, and everywhere you turned, you saw a flag with a swastika on it? It was flying over your capitol building It was on the license plate of your car that you had to pay Ad Velorum tax to have. Everytime you went shopping, it was on t shirts and beer cozies and flying from the backs of giant 4 wheel drives.
How would that make you feel?
Both are symbols of hate and divisiveness. I would only hope that if that ever happened to any of you, you wouldn't be called a crybaby.
You know what is more pathetic than defending slave history while ****ting yourself over a media induced frenzy regarding the confederate flag?I shall point out that during and after the revolution New York City which remained under British control was the place where slaves could go and they would be given their freedom and land in Canada after fighting for the British during the war and that policy continued even after the war had ended until New York was given to the Americans.
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