Conclusive Evidence to Dismiss Trump's Voter Fraud Election Claims

[uptower]

Yes, hard to prove. That's what I said. They wouldn't be doing it that way if it was easy to prove. But it's obvious if you can think and read. But that's up to you.
Here's a start ... https://nypost.com/2021/10/13/how-mark-zuckerberg-helped-dems-sway-the-2020-election/

Oh so your validation is the reason there's no proof is because they're so good at hiding it? With that reasoning you can choose to believe whatever you want simply because there is no proof. Brilliant.

 

[Michael Cole]

Expanded early voting, unsolicited absentee ballots, ballot harvesting ... stuff like that. That's where the action is.
Not to mention getting the right people into the right places, holding the right positions, making the most opportune decisions. That takes money. Lots of money. Zuckerberg kind of money.
As for proof, those kinds of things are hard to prove after the fact. As I mentioned way back in #79.
But you have to be pretty deep in the tank to believe the D Party wants all that to be Federalized because of their concern for voters.
Do you think that?

Money...lots of money...impossible to prove.

What a dumb statement.

 

[mike2810]

Answer me this ... which situation offers more opportunity for election fraud ...
A) Expanded early voting, unsolicited absentee ballots, ballot harvesting, unguarded drop boxes, biased sig matching, getting the right people into the right places holding the right positions to make the most opportune decisions and Zuckerberg kind of money to get them there?
or
B) voting on election day at your neighborhood precinct like it had been done for many decades and even more recentlybefore COVID inspired changes.?

Hey, you never answered what I asked ...
Do you believe the D Party wants to Federalize elections because of their concern for voters?

you do realize your option A has many qualifiers.

How about
A) early voting by mail where the person requested the ballot, signature was verified, like it has been done for decades
or
B) voting in person with fake ID, stolen election card, hand in a fake cast to say I can't sign worth a darn now.

See how easy it is to bias the selection

Arizona has used mail in ballots as well as other States for years with no issue. Arizona has had a Republican majority for decades. Did they mess it up?

 

[bubbabgone]

For the first three I don’t have an answer, because I am not an expert on the election system as it is implemented in each seaparate state. And because none of those questions as posted is relevant. It doesn’t matter which I ‘think’ might be more open to fraud because the answer already exists in the tiny number of fraud cases that have been uncovered. As I understand it there were precious few all over.

These are all posted as ‘what if’ scenarios. We don’t have to ask ‘what if’ because what IS has already been documented. It doesn’t matter which you or I think has the most ‘potential’ for abuse one way or another, because states already have the record in the number of voter fraud cases uncovered. Show us the cases of actual fraud that took place and how they tipped the election. If you really want to know which is more likely, go find which one netted the most cases of documented fraud: I asked for evidence not hypothetical questions.

As for the last, I took it as a snarky rhetorical question laced with cynicism rather than a serious query. That’s why I didn’t ‘answer’. I will now:

Yes I believe the Democratic Party wants to maintain the integrity of the elections and reduce instances of voter suppression in all its forms. Yes I believe they are doing it for the voters and for democracy’s sake. If you take the cynical aspect that it also benefits them because more people vote for them, they are almost certainly aware of that, but it is still the right thing to do. Just as in the civil rights era, ‘conservative’ states are hiding behind ‘states rights’ to undermine the rights of their own people.

I'll try this one more time but if anyone really thinks "they are doing it for the voters and for democracy’s sake" then they are beyond reach unless they open their minds and read about what happened in the last election in Wisconsin, PA, and GA. The kind of fraud I mentioned doesn't lend itself to being uncovered through recounts.
Start here to hopefully get your attention and maybe inspire more research but I'm not expecting any results ... https://nypost.com/2021/10/14/zuckerberg-election-spending-was-orchestrated-to-influence-2020-vote/ and
https://nypost.com/2021/10/13/how-mark-zuckerberg-helped-dems-sway-the-2020-election/
And if you read the Post pieces, keep in mind that while the Zuck Bucks were offered to all, they were disproportionally distributed to Ds. Something like 4 to 1, with "getting the right people into the right places holding the right positions to make the most opportune decisions. " a priority using private D activist organizations for assistance and personnel.

 

[bubbabgone]

Money...lots of money...impossible to prove.

What a dumb statement.

Yours or mine?

 

[bubbabgone]

you do realize your option A has many qualifiers.

How about
A) early voting by mail where the person requested the ballot, signature was verified, like it has been done for decades
or
B) voting in person with fake ID, stolen election card, hand in a fake cast to say I can't sign worth a darn now.

See how easy it is to bias the selection

Arizona has used mail in ballots as well as other States for years with no issue. Arizona has had a Republican majority for decades. Did they mess it up?

Would you expect the signature rejection rate to remain pretty constant from election to election?

 

[Michael Cole]

Yours or mine?

I don't have Zuckerberg money. You?

You're claiming billions of dollars were laundered to steal the election. And you don't immediately see how crazy that is. Hey, I'm using common sense here. If you have some evidence of all this cash changing hands, by all means, present it.

 

[uptower]

I'll try this one more time but if anyone really thinks "they are doing it for the voters and for democracy’s sake" then they are beyond reach unless they open their minds and read about what happened in the last election in Wisconsin, PA, and GA. The kind of fraud I mentioned doesn't lend itself to being uncovered through recounts.
Start here to hopefully get your attention and maybe inspire more research but I'm not expecting any results ... https://nypost.com/2021/10/14/zuckerberg-election-spending-was-orchestrated-to-influence-2020-vote/ and
https://nypost.com/2021/10/13/how-mark-zuckerberg-helped-dems-sway-the-2020-election/
And if you read the Post pieces, keep in mind that while the Zuck Bucks were offered to all, they were disproportionally distributed to Ds. Something like 4 to 1, with "getting the right people into the right places holding the right positions to make the most opportune decisions. " a priority using private D activist organizations for assistance and personnel.

“Influence, sway,” these are not cheating, or so the Russia people told us in 2016.

And you’re right about not expecting any results. In the absence of hard evidence I’ve no interest in chasing scurrilous rumours down the rabbit hole, doing my “own research” and coming to the same fantastical conclusions as you lot have.

Saying it’s “hard to prove” is nonsense. People have been caught cheating at elections and punished for it. The system works when the evidence is there. It is far too seldom and scant to support the theory of a massive plot to steal the elections.

 

[bubbabgone]

I don't have Zuckerberg money. You?

You're claiming billions of dollars were laundered to steal the election. And you don't immediately see how crazy that is. Hey, I'm using common sense here. If you have some evidence of all this cash changing hands, by all means, present it.

Zuck's bucks were in the many millions. You should read about it. I gave 2 links in #154 for you to start with.

 

[Michael Cole]

Zuck's bucks were in the many millions. You should read about it. I gave 2 links in #154 for you to start with.

No thanks. CTs aren't my thing.

If there were a money trail, we'd have seen it a long time ago. Your claim is delusional.

 

[bubbabgone]

“Influence, sway,” these are not cheating, or so the Russia people told us in 2016.

And you’re right about not expecting any results. In the absence of hard evidence I’ve no interest in chasing scurrilous rumours down the rabbit hole, doing my “own research” and coming to the same fantastical conclusions as you lot have.

I didn't think you'd care and you didn't disappoint me. Head in the sand and all that as long as you get results you like.
Then again, maybe if you knew more you'd realize that how those results are achieved suggest you've hitched your wagon to a crooked horse. Is that why you're afraid to look?
You can at least read the links I gave you. Don't think of it as research so you won't be scared.

Saying it’s “hard to prove” is nonsense. People have been caught cheating at elections and punished for it. The system works when the evidence is there. It is far too seldom and scant to support the theory of a massive plot to steal the elections.

I think I may have given you this example in passing before but it could have been someone else.
One responsibility of election workers is to verify signatures and reject the ballot if the sigs aren't close enough. Right?
Would biased actions in that regard be hard to prove after the fact? Oh yes.
And wouldn't there be a potential for many such biased actions given the volume of early and absentee votes these days? Oh my yes.
And then ask yourself why the Democratics are so against voter ID and other ID verification methods? You can answer that one.

 

[bubbabgone]

No thanks. CTs aren't my thing.

If there were a money trail, we'd have seen it a long time ago. Your claim is delusional.

It has been seen. By the IRS. Just not by you apparently.
Zuck didn't hide it. Sheesh! You didn't even know that much?

Loading…

www.influencewatch.org

Center for Tech and Civic Life (CTCL)

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

 

[Michael Cole]

It has been seen. By the IRS. Just not by you apparently.
Zuck didn't hide it. Sheesh! You didn't even know that much?

Loading…

www.influencewatch.org

Center for Tech and Civic Life (CTCL)

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

Lmfao. You're not serious?

My god. Get real.

"Here's a concert ticket. Voter fraud! Lookie here, some kinda official lookin' tax form. Trump won!"

 

[uptower]

And then ask yourself why the Democratics are so against voter ID and other ID verification methods? You can answer that one.

Because they were never needed before. There was scant enough evidence to support the claim people are casting fraudulent ballots and the few who do have enough caught. The system already works and raising any new hurdle or step voters must go through to prove themselves - based on imaginary fears of widespread ballot fraud - makes it that little bit harder for everyone who is eligible to vote.

The premise is a lie to begin with. As are excuses against mail in voting, early voting and excuses for closing polling stations and striking names off rolls. All add up to a pattern of tricks that result in fewer people voting. That’s the Republican plan for elections: to depress the turnout and make it harder to vote.

Since the myth of widespread fraud has never been proven, ask yourself why they would want that.

 

[bubbabgone]

Lmfao. You're not serious?

My god. Get real.

"Here's a concert ticket. Voter fraud! Lookie here, some kinda official lookin' tax form. Trump won!"

Geezuz. You're not even trying to look serious anymore. Okay. You may go.

 

[Michael Cole]

Geezuz. You're not even trying to look serious anymore. Okay. You may go.

Serious people understand the election wasn't rigged. You're the one jumping through Trump hoops, not me.

 

[bubbabgone]

Because they were never needed before. There was scant enough evidence to support the claim people are casting fraudulent ballots and the few who do have enough caught. The system already works and raising any new hurdle or step voters must go through to prove themselves - based on imaginary fears of widespread ballot fraud - makes it that little bit harder for everyone who is eligible to vote.

The premise is a lie to begin with. As are excuses against mail in voting, early voting and excuses for closing polling stations and striking names off rolls. All add up to a pattern of tricks that result in fewer people voting. That’s the Republican plan for elections: to depress the turnout and make it harder to vote.

Since the myth of widespread fraud has never been proven, ask yourself why they would want that.

You've been convinced to twist logic on its head. Someone told you Voter ID suppresses the vote and you sucked it up and repeated it. You really do need to read more.

 

[iguanaman]

Why did you feel you had to add the phrase "of any consequence " to your OP?

Because there are individual incidences of voter fraud (mostly on Trump's side) that are too small to have an effect on the results.

 

[uptower]

You've been convinced to twist logic on its head. Someone told you Voter ID suppresses the vote and you sucked it up and repeated it. You really do need to read more.

The numbers are in, fewer people get the chance to vote as a result of these measures, and courts, where they can have ruled the measures unfairly target minorities. It’s not just my ‘opinion’.

Georgia’s voter suppression bill is an assault on our democracy

Just as President Trump targeted voters in majority-Black cities such as Atlanta, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia, these state lawmakers are taking their cues from the old white supremacy playbook, which teaches: If you can’t win fair and square, then suppress the vote.

www.brookings.edu

Voter Suppression During the 2018 Midterm Elections

In an election where so much was at stake, countless Americans were prevented from making their voices heard because of voter suppression and other Election Day problems.

www.americanprogress.org

A Georgia law prevented 87,000 people from voting last year. And it could have a big impact in 2020

Voter registration deadlines have long been a part of American elections, but an APM Reports investigation finds that they disenfranchised a surprising number of voters in 2018.

www.apmreports.org

 

[iguanaman]

You've been convinced to twist logic on its head. Someone told you Voter ID suppresses the vote and you sucked it up and repeated it. You really do need to read more.

The Republicans opposed Manchin's bill that contained universal voter ID. It did not suppress the vote enough.

 

[bubbabgone]

Because there are individual incidences of voter fraud (mostly on Trump's side) that are too small to have an effect on the results.

The ones I was talking about are not individual. Zuck didn't pay millions to get a couple of dead people to vote Democrat.

 

[bubbabgone]

The numbers are in, fewer people get the chance to vote as a result of these measures, and courts, where they can have ruled the measures unfairly target minorities. It’s not just my ‘opinion’.

Georgia’s voter suppression bill is an assault on our democracy

Just as President Trump targeted voters in majority-Black cities such as Atlanta, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia, these state lawmakers are taking their cues from the old white supremacy playbook, which teaches: If you can’t win fair and square, then suppress the vote.

www.brookings.edu

Voter Suppression During the 2018 Midterm Elections

In an election where so much was at stake, countless Americans were prevented from making their voices heard because of voter suppression and other Election Day problems.

www.americanprogress.org

A Georgia law prevented 87,000 people from voting last year. And it could have a big impact in 2020

Voter registration deadlines have long been a part of American elections, but an APM Reports investigation finds that they disenfranchised a surprising number of voters in 2018.

www.apmreports.org

Nonsense.
Complaining about Voter ID laws is like complaining that you can't cheat anymore.
As is complaining that you have to register early enough to verify you're entitled to.
Also as is complaining there isn't a drop box on every corner. My goodness what did people do when there were none at all.
You've been suckered by left wing alarmist websites.

 

[bubbabgone]

The Republicans opposed Manchin's bill that contained universal voter ID. It did not suppress the vote enough.

Why? What was in it?

 

[iguanaman]

Nonsense.
Complaining about Voter ID laws is like complaining that you can't cheat anymore.
As is complaining that you have to register early enough to verify you're entitled to.
Also as is complaining there isn't a drop box on every corner. My goodness what did people do when there were none at all.
You've been suckered by left wing alarmist websites.

You know damn well the the ability of a partisan legislature to take over the counting in districts where they do not like the results is a real invitation to fraud. Why else would you want partisans to count the votes? The truth is red legislatures are making fraud legal for them to do. This time they will "find the votes" like the one term mistake asked them to in 2020. It must never be legal for one side to do the counting that is how we have kept the vote legit for 100's of years.

Georgia bill could shift power over elections to GOP appointees​

Under the proposal, the Republican-controlled State Election Board would be able to replace struggling county election boards and install new management, with broad authority over elections and results.
State takeovers of local election offices could change the outcome of future elections, especially if they’re as hotly contested as last year’s presidential race between Democrat Joe Biden and Republican Donald Trump. County election boards decide on challenges to voters’ eligibility, polling place closures and certification of results.
https://www.ajc.com/politics/georgi...to-gop-appointees/VPNVO2W4TBBTFKGA7Z2GZIEQEE/

 

[uptower]

Nonsense.
Complaining about Voter ID laws is like complaining that you can't cheat anymore.
As is complaining that you have to register early enough to verify you're entitled to.
Also as is complaining there isn't a drop box on every corner. My goodness what did people do when there were none at all.
You've been suckered by left wing alarmist websites.

I've brought facts to the table - research and results. Whatever it 'seems' like or 'feels' like or 'could' happen but hasn't is irrelevant.

Tell us one good reason why voting today should be any harder or more complicated than it was yesterday. Not what 'could' or 'might' happen, but what actually has.