• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Common Core - New Math - One Photo

Oh God. The faux outrage. :roll:

I had no idea anybody was teaching this but this "new math" isn't really new at all. It's a standard trick for doing mental math. In fact, it's probably closer to how most people subtract numbers mentally.

Do this in your head: 73 - 46

How did you do it? Did you really mentally stack the numbers on top of each other? Did you mentally cross out the 7 and scribble a 6 above it? Did you mentally scribble a little 1 in front of the 3 to represent thirteen? Did you then subtract 6 from 13 to get 7 and then write that in the unit's column of the answer? Did you then subtract 4 from your scribbled 6 to get 2 and then write that in the ten's column of the answer to get 27?

I ****ing hope not.

I don't. I add 4 to 46 to get 50. Then I know that I need to add 23 to get from 50 to 73. So the answer is 4+23 = 27. Much faster and more efficient. This is the "new math" that heathen teachers are poisoning your innocent children with. Oh the humanity!

The "old math" is an algorithm that is reliable and very useful and should continue to be taught. It's particularly useful when you're trying to subtract big ugly numbers and you have a pen and paper handy because if you just follow the algorithm it'll always lead you to the right answer. The "new math" method is a useful trick for doing subtraction in your head more quickly. God forbid our children learn both. :roll:

Not learn, discover. There is no Sage on the Stage anymore, it's all Guide by the Side today.

The point you make comes from a place where you already have deep mastery of these basic techniques. You're an adult. For lots of us math is intuitive - we can do amazing calculations in our heads. We can do this easily and on the fly. We can think mathematically because we have thoroughly mastered the material. That's not the case with kids being introduced to this. This constructivist pedagogy has been floating around for decades now, like a vampire. Districts introduce it, it crashes and burns, there are parental protests which force the hands of the officials and they step back. Then it comes to life again.
 
Not learn, discover. There is no Sage on the Stage anymore, it's all Guide by the Side today.

The point you make comes from a place where you already have deep mastery of these basic techniques. You're an adult. For lots of us math is intuitive - we can do amazing calculations in our heads. We can do this easily and on the fly. We can think mathematically because we have thoroughly mastered the material. That's not the case with kids being introduced to this. This constructivist pedagogy has been floating around for decades now, like a vampire. Districts introduce it, it crashes and burns, there are parental protests which force the hands of the officials and they step back. Then it comes to life again.


Oh spare me. There's nothing wrong with introducing tricks for doing mental math to children at an age when it's deemed appropriate by those who specialize in teaching children. It's not rocket science. Their heads aren't going to explode.

Your outrage is ridiculous.
 
The problem with our elementary education system is that they fail to teach our children the basics. Math, Science, Social Studies, English, Hand Writing. These are the building blocks. Until the students master these, they can not be promoted to a higher grade level. You can not master algebra, geometry when you don't understand basic math concepts. You can not master H.S. English or College English when you are not taught sentence structure, grammar, spelling, and so on. You can not rush through the basics.
 
The OP is a silly example. 32-12 is not a good example of when the "addition" method would be useful. Not to mention the addition path chosen is a stupid path. You can choose whatever path is easiest and quickest for you.

Try something like 82 - 29 in your head.

Using the addition method I would say: Add 1 to 29 gets me 30. Then I need to add 52 to 30 to get me to 82. So the answer is 1 + 52 = 53.

That's quicker and easier than trying to subtract those two numbers in your head using the standard subtraction algorithm.

Why is that easier than 12-9 is 3 and 7-2 is 5 so the answer is 53?
 
There's nothing wrong with introducing tricks for doing mental math to children at an age when it's deemed appropriate by those who specialize in teaching children.

Yeah sure, you're spared. Talk to these folks though:

More than 50 professors and teachers have now signed a petition calling for a return to the conventional teaching of arithmetic, with a focus on students learning, practicing and mastering the basics of math in elementary school.

Here’s Dawn Arnold, a high school math teacher in Tofield. “I am seeing the results of the ‘discovery’ method coming into my senior high math classes and it is very disturbing.”

And John O’Connor, a math instructor in Edmonton: “I have been teaching University level Mathematics for many years and have seen first-hand the harm that has been caused by the high-school Math curriculum. Students have been cheated by not having been taught the basic fundamental skills that are essential to an understanding of the subject.​

Gordon Swaters EDMONTON
In addition to having an 11 year old daughter in the school system and seeing the math she brings home, I am a U of A Math prof who sees the declining the ability of first year students to do basic math.

Donna Nixon ST. ALBERT
I am a junior high math teacher. More and more grade 7 students are coming in with no basic math skills – they don’t even know their basic addition and subtraction facts, never mind multiplication or division!!!

Terry Gannon EDMONTON, AB, CANADA
I am a parent of 7 year old twins, and a math prof at the U of Alberta. As a parent, an educator and indeed a mathematician, I know a balanced approach is fundamental. From what I have seen with my children’s education, there is no balance in mathematics education in our schools today.

Peter Zajiczek` CALGARY, CANADA
I am a mathematics teacher and our children are so ill-prepared for higher level mathematics it is frightening. Students need basic math facts memorized to focus on higher level concepts.

Christian Rios, Calgary
I am a mathematician at the University of Calgary, and I have children in the school system. Currently math education is creating more confusion than enlightenment. The main problem is the concept that synthesis (what they call “making sense”) may come before proficiency. This is an upside down approach to learning. Mathematics should be learned the way we learn our native language: First we memorize a few words and their basic meaning, we learn how to put together basic sentences allowing us to communicate. Much later in this process we get to the point of analyzing syntax, parts of speech, and symbolism.

The current approach to learning mathematics pretends to start with the analytic stage. This creates confusion in students, that leads to chronic frustration, and finally creates aversion to everything mathematical.

Olia Libicz Pavlin EDMONTON
I’m an ex – teacher with 2 elementary aged kids. They are not learning real math at school and I end up teaching them at home. What happens the the kids whose parents don’t like math and can’t explain math to their kids. I am very concerned with the whole discovery way of learning and that is why I left teaching. I have to teach my kids at home after school and there is no energy left at the end of the day to teach your own kids when you just worked with 31 kids.

Marc Van Sluys, Calgary
As a teacher, I can see the advantages of teaching math fundamentals. Since the new math curriculum has been introduced, I have seen the slow decline of fundamental math knowledge in my students. They struggle with simple addition, multiplication, subtraction, and division. It seems to me that as an adult, I use the above skills more than the current skills being taught by the new curriculum.

Deborah Younger, Edmonton
I am a high school math teacher. I am noticing that an increasingly larger number of my Grade 10 students do not know basic times table facts, nor do they understand operations with fractions or integers. These are fundamental to successful completion of most high school math courses.

Viena Stastna, Calgary
I teach Calculus 1 at the university so I see the consequences.

Neil Hepburn CAMROSE, CANADA
I teach undergraduate economics and deal with the fallout from this every day. Simple algebraic operations escape my students. Clearly they have not “discovered” the methods.

Phil Davidson EDMONTON
I teach statistics to BComm students. On average my students educated here in Alberta are way behind my foreign students in basic math skills.

Roy Sharplin, Edmonton
I am an instructor in an engineering technology program at NAIT. We are seeing an increase in students who came to NAIT with high marks in high school math but struggle in our basic technology math courses.

Noel Allin EDMONTON
I have a teaching degree and was exposed to this doctrine of ‘discovery-based learning’ back in the 1970′s. The theory is that you will retain an answer longer and better if you ‘discover’ it yourself. It was a confusing mishmash then. It led to – nothing. Get rid of this idea entirely. Eveen at the university level there was much resistance and no fun involved in this ‘process’. International results should be more than enough to consign your experiment to the trash heap of useless learning techniques.

Corry Mortensen TILLEY
I was a mathematics teacher and I see the effects on the students I taught and on my own children. I also firmly believe that if you introduce critical thinking problems you must also teach “how” to be critical thinkers – those skills aren’t automatic. Teaching 4 different ways to do something isn’t critical thinking, teaching skills so students can develop their own methods and techniques is.

Hank Kalke EDMONTON, CANADA
In my career as a high school teacher of many courses including math & as an instructor at NAIT, I truly have experienced the importance of I totally agree with the “Back to the Basics: Mastering the fundamentals of mathematics” petition. As is stated, “the “new math” glares of absurdities in that students are led through multiple convoluted “strategies” to get to a solution, with no emphasis on mastering any one method. As a result, the importance of knowing basic math facts (eg. algorithms, time tables, automatic recalls, vertical additions) is diluted down to a weak understanding and poor grasp of basic mathematical concepts.”

Allysa Lumley LETHBRIDGE, CANADA
I am a mathematics master student and I see a lot of people struggling to handle basic math facts at all ages. It is very upsetting. I also have a large number of friends who are teachers that have expressed concern over the lack of preparedness for the next grade.

Ioana Crisan, Calgary
I have taught principles and intermediate courses in Economics at university level for twelve years. The inability of some of my students to solve basic equations that a Grade 5 student should be able to solve is shocking. It is obvious that some of them are paralyzed by math. A student should not have to use a calculator to divide 72 by 9. The education system has failed these students, and I hope it is not too late for those in charge to admit that a mistake has been made and to try to correct it. I have a daughter in Grade 1 and I hope that by the time she reaches university she will have more confidence in her math skills than my current students do.
 
I found this interesting:

We already have a preview of where all this is heading. In the 2008-09 school year, the province introduced “discovery math,” which encourages kids to find new and creative ways of solving math problems (some of them quite cumbersome) and throws standard methods out the window. Alberta’s math scores, once among the highest in the world, promptly plunged. In 2012, 15.1 per cent of Alberta’s students failed to meet the minimum standards on PISA’s international math test – more than double the failure rate (7.4 per cent) in 2003. The percentage of top-scoring students declined to 16.9 per cent from 26.8. . . .

Just a decade ago, Alberta’s education system was the envy of the world. Americans and Europeans all came to find what they could learn from it. Schools were free to teach students in whatever way they liked, so long as the kids scored well on standardized tests. And they did – consistently outperforming all the other provinces in science and reading as well as in math. Parents strongly supported the province’s culture of accountability.​

Validation of the pedagogy? Why bother with such trivial distractions when the theory sounds so terrific - kids can discover math on their own. Drill and Kill is out, Discovery is in.

You know what would be great? I'll tell you what, it would be great if the FDA adopted this no-validation model in drug testing. If the sales pitch sounds good, then just roll out the new drugs. Who cares if the promises made can deliver the goods.
 
Oh God. The faux outrage. :roll:

I had no idea anybody was teaching this but this "new math" isn't really new at all. It's a standard trick for doing mental math. In fact, it's probably closer to how most people subtract numbers mentally.

Do this in your head: 73 - 46

How did you do it? Did you really mentally stack the numbers on top of each other? Did you mentally cross out the 7 and scribble a 6 above it? Did you mentally scribble a little 1 in front of the 3 to represent thirteen? Did you then subtract 6 from 13 to get 7 and then write that in the unit's column of the answer? Did you then subtract 4 from your scribbled 6 to get 2 and then write that in the ten's column of the answer to get 27?

I ****ing hope not.

I don't. I add 4 to 46 to get 50. Then I know that I need to add 23 to get from 50 to 73. So the answer is 4+23 = 27. Much faster and more efficient. This is the "new math" that heathen teachers are poisoning your innocent children with. Oh the humanity!

The "old math" is an algorithm that is reliable and very useful and should continue to be taught. It's particularly useful when you're trying to subtract big ugly numbers and you have a pen and paper handy because if you just follow the algorithm it'll always lead you to the right answer. The "new math" method is a useful trick for doing subtraction in your head more quickly. God forbid our children learn both. :roll:

I use both to be honest. For the majority if mental calculations I do the former but for some strange reasons I also do the latter in certain random occasions. I also think you misused the word "algorithm"
 
Well, it sure doesn't seem any easier. Hell, from the looks of things it seems to be pretty much the opposite of easier.

Very often, the easiest way to do something is the way you know how to do it.

We learned a different way of doing it so, to us, our way is easier. However, I remember many of classmates back then struggling to remember what to carry and when to borrow. If this way leads to the right answer, and fewer children have a problem with it (and I don't if this is the case with this method) then who's to say this method is any better or worse?
 
Last edited:
The problem with our elementary education system is that they fail to teach our children the basics. Math, Science, Social Studies, English, Hand Writing.

Yeah, an example of a math problem with the correct answer proves that our schools are not teaching math :roll:
 
Last edited:
Why is that easier than 12-9 is 3 and 7-2 is 5 so the answer is 53?

You're leaving out other steps. You also have to mentally subtract 1 from 8 and add 10 to 2. And you have to keep track of which digit goes where in the answer.

But that's irrelevant. It comes down to a matter of personal preference. If you find the standard subtraction as easy or easier, fan-****ing-tastic. Keep doing it. But lots of other people find the complement method of subtraction easier and faster to do mentally. Which is probably why they've started to teach both methods.

This is not a travesty.
 
Yeah sure, you're spared. Talk to these folks though:

More than 50 professors and teachers have now signed a petition calling for a return to the conventional teaching of arithmetic, with a focus on students learning, practicing and mastering the basics of math in elementary school.

Here’s Dawn Arnold, a high school math teacher in Tofield. “I am seeing the results of the ‘discovery’ method coming into my senior high math classes and it is very disturbing.”

And John O’Connor, a math instructor in Edmonton: “I have been teaching University level Mathematics for many years and have seen first-hand the harm that has been caused by the high-school Math curriculum. Students have been cheated by not having been taught the basic fundamental skills that are essential to an understanding of the subject.​

Gordon Swaters EDMONTON
In addition to having an 11 year old daughter in the school system and seeing the math she brings home, I am a U of A Math prof who sees the declining the ability of first year students to do basic math.

Donna Nixon ST. ALBERT
I am a junior high math teacher. More and more grade 7 students are coming in with no basic math skills – they don’t even know their basic addition and subtraction facts, never mind multiplication or division!!!

Terry Gannon EDMONTON, AB, CANADA
I am a parent of 7 year old twins, and a math prof at the U of Alberta. As a parent, an educator and indeed a mathematician, I know a balanced approach is fundamental. From what I have seen with my children’s education, there is no balance in mathematics education in our schools today.

Peter Zajiczek` CALGARY, CANADA
I am a mathematics teacher and our children are so ill-prepared for higher level mathematics it is frightening. Students need basic math facts memorized to focus on higher level concepts.

Christian Rios, Calgary
I am a mathematician at the University of Calgary, and I have children in the school system. Currently math education is creating more confusion than enlightenment. The main problem is the concept that synthesis (what they call “making sense”) may come before proficiency. This is an upside down approach to learning. Mathematics should be learned the way we learn our native language: First we memorize a few words and their basic meaning, we learn how to put together basic sentences allowing us to communicate. Much later in this process we get to the point of analyzing syntax, parts of speech, and symbolism.

The current approach to learning mathematics pretends to start with the analytic stage. This creates confusion in students, that leads to chronic frustration, and finally creates aversion to everything mathematical.

Olia Libicz Pavlin EDMONTON
I’m an ex – teacher with 2 elementary aged kids. They are not learning real math at school and I end up teaching them at home. What happens the the kids whose parents don’t like math and can’t explain math to their kids. I am very concerned with the whole discovery way of learning and that is why I left teaching. I have to teach my kids at home after school and there is no energy left at the end of the day to teach your own kids when you just worked with 31 kids.

Marc Van Sluys, Calgary
As a teacher, I can see the advantages of teaching math fundamentals. Since the new math curriculum has been introduced, I have seen the slow decline of fundamental math knowledge in my students. They struggle with simple addition, multiplication, subtraction, and division. It seems to me that as an adult, I use the above skills more than the current skills being taught by the new curriculum.

Deborah Younger, Edmonton
I am a high school math teacher. I am noticing that an increasingly larger number of my Grade 10 students do not know basic times table facts, nor do they understand operations with fractions or integers. These are fundamental to successful completion of most high school math courses.

Viena Stastna, Calgary
I teach Calculus 1 at the university so I see the consequences.

Neil Hepburn CAMROSE, CANADA
I teach undergraduate economics and deal with the fallout from this every day. Simple algebraic operations escape my students. Clearly they have not “discovered” the methods.

Phil Davidson EDMONTON
I teach statistics to BComm students. On average my students educated here in Alberta are way behind my foreign students in basic math skills.

Roy Sharplin, Edmonton
I am an instructor in an engineering technology program at NAIT. We are seeing an increase in students who came to NAIT with high marks in high school math but struggle in our basic technology math courses.

Noel Allin EDMONTON
I have a teaching degree and was exposed to this doctrine of ‘discovery-based learning’ back in the 1970′s. The theory is that you will retain an answer longer and better if you ‘discover’ it yourself. It was a confusing mishmash then. It led to – nothing. Get rid of this idea entirely. Eveen at the university level there was much resistance and no fun involved in this ‘process’. International results should be more than enough to consign your experiment to the trash heap of useless learning techniques.

Corry Mortensen TILLEY
I was a mathematics teacher and I see the effects on the students I taught and on my own children. I also firmly believe that if you introduce critical thinking problems you must also teach “how” to be critical thinkers – those skills aren’t automatic. Teaching 4 different ways to do something isn’t critical thinking, teaching skills so students can develop their own methods and techniques is.

Hank Kalke EDMONTON, CANADA
In my career as a high school teacher of many courses including math & as an instructor at NAIT, I truly have experienced the importance of I totally agree with the “Back to the Basics: Mastering the fundamentals of mathematics” petition. As is stated, “the “new math” glares of absurdities in that students are led through multiple convoluted “strategies” to get to a solution, with no emphasis on mastering any one method. As a result, the importance of knowing basic math facts (eg. algorithms, time tables, automatic recalls, vertical additions) is diluted down to a weak understanding and poor grasp of basic mathematical concepts.”

Allysa Lumley LETHBRIDGE, CANADA
I am a mathematics master student and I see a lot of people struggling to handle basic math facts at all ages. It is very upsetting. I also have a large number of friends who are teachers that have expressed concern over the lack of preparedness for the next grade.

Ioana Crisan, Calgary
I have taught principles and intermediate courses in Economics at university level for twelve years. The inability of some of my students to solve basic equations that a Grade 5 student should be able to solve is shocking. It is obvious that some of them are paralyzed by math. A student should not have to use a calculator to divide 72 by 9. The education system has failed these students, and I hope it is not too late for those in charge to admit that a mistake has been made and to try to correct it. I have a daughter in Grade 1 and I hope that by the time she reaches university she will have more confidence in her math skills than my current students do.

:lol: The only thing your Wall'o'Text of anecdotes and testimonials convinces me of is that you don't have an actual argument to stand on.
 
Oh God. The faux outrage. :roll:

I had no idea anybody was teaching this but this "new math" isn't really new at all. It's a standard trick for doing mental math. In fact, it's probably closer to how most people subtract numbers mentally.

Do this in your head: 73 - 46

How did you do it? Did you really mentally stack the numbers on top of each other? Did you mentally cross out the 7 and scribble a 6 above it? Did you mentally scribble a little 1 in front of the 3 to represent thirteen? Did you then subtract 6 from 13 to get 7 and then write that in the unit's column of the answer? Did you then subtract 4 from your scribbled 6 to get 2 and then write that in the ten's column of the answer to get 27?

I ****ing hope not.

I don't. I add 4 to 46 to get 50. Then I know that I need to add 23 to get from 50 to 73. So the answer is 4+23 = 27. Much faster and more efficient. This is the "new math" that heathen teachers are poisoning your innocent children with. Oh the humanity!

The "old math" is an algorithm that is reliable and very useful and should continue to be taught. It's particularly useful when you're trying to subtract big ugly numbers and you have a pen and paper handy because if you just follow the algorithm it'll always lead you to the right answer. The "new math" method is a useful trick for doing subtraction in your head more quickly. God forbid our children learn both. :roll:


Hmmm....

Actually I did it as 73 - 40 = 33, 33 - 6 = 27


Fallen.
 
Hmmm....

Actually I did it as 73 - 40 = 33, 33 - 6 = 27


Fallen.

i did it as

73-6=67
67-40=27

but i use a ton of tricks in other problems. for example if you have a number like this 1546464672. i can tell immediately that i can divide it by nine, because the numbers added up equals 45 which i already know is divisible by nine.works for threes to, due to us using base ten.

i used to be able to do square roots in my head but i forgot how, i came up with some method in middle school but never needed it outside of school.

those little tricks are great and if it helps, great
 
Here's what happens when we place trust in education "professionals" - one fad after another.


Mh6tIxZ_zps0d2323d6.jpg

electricity.jpg
 
i did it as

73-6=67
67-40=27

but i use a ton of tricks in other problems. for example if you have a number like this 1546464672. i can tell immediately that i can divide it by nine, because the numbers added up equals 45 which i already know is divisible by nine.works for threes to, due to us using base ten.

i used to be able to do square roots in my head but i forgot how, i came up with some method in middle school but never needed it outside of school.

those little tricks are great and if it helps, great

That 9 thing is part of the official curriculum, at least in SK. We all had to learn how to calculate which numbers were dividable by numbers 1~9. 2 is obvious, 3 is the same method as 9, 4 I forgot, 5 is also obvious, so on... TBH I forgot all except 2, 3, 5, and 9
 
That 9 thing is part of the official curriculum, at least in SK. We all had to learn how to calculate which numbers were dividable by numbers 1~9. 2 is obvious, 3 is the same method as 9, 4 I forgot, 5 is also obvious, so on... TBH I forgot all except 2, 3, 5, and 9

you can catch 4 with the last two digits.

six is divisible by 3 and even.

they never taught me this. im glad its included
 
Back
Top Bottom