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Colorado survey shows what marijuana legalization will do to your kids

RabidAlpaca said:
Oh look, an anarchist pretending to be a libertarian pretending he invented the idea of being against the drug war.
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Voluntaryism is a libertarian philosophy . :prof

Being opposed to making behavior inflicted on yourself illegal reaches far beyond the drug war. Spooner wrote an entire book (a short one admittedly) about how vices are not crimes well before the US ever started the drug war.

Btw, where does someone like you get off on telling someone else they're not a libertarian? How many times have I pointed out that you're out of step with libertarian thought over the years exactly? Do you remember when you used to claim you were a right libertarian and yet endorsed liberal views like anti-discrimination laws? I do. Do you remember how you used to claim that people didn't have the right to discriminate against people if they opened their business to the public? Tell me again how that view is in line with libertarian philosophy, Rapid.

I think I have shown repeatedly that you're completely out of your element when talking to me about libertarian philosophy, so why don't you just drop that little insult of yours.
 
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TheDemSocialist said:
More people have died to get high on alcohol. Does that mean we should make alcohol illegal again because people are driving drunk?

And you also ignored the points from the source how your study is deeply flawed: "The problem with these criticisms is that we can test only for the presence of marijuana metabolites, not for inebriation. Metabolites can linger in the body for days after the drug’s effects wear off — sometimes even for weeks. Because we all metabolize drugs differently (and at different times and under different conditions), all that a positive test tells us is that the driver has smoked pot at some point in the past few days or weeks... It makes sense that loosening restrictions on pot would result in a higher percentage of drivers involved in fatal traffic accidents having smoked the drug at some point over the past few days or weeks. You’d also expect to find that a higher percentage of churchgoers, good Samaritans and soup kitchen volunteers would have pot in their system. You’d expect a similar result among any large sampling of people. This doesn’t necessarily mean that marijuana caused or was even a contributing factor to accidents, traffic violations or fatalities. This isn’t an argument that pot wasn’t a factor in at least some of those accidents, either. But that’s precisely the point. A post-accident test for marijuana metabolites doesn’t tell us much at all about whether pot contributed to the accident."
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One bad thing does not justify another...
 
faithful_servant said:
One bad thing does not justify another...
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Should we ban alcohol because people die in drunk driving accidents?

I will note that you ignoring some substantial points which point out how your study is flawed means you do not want to face the reality of the issue that just because someone had the presence of marijuana in their system doesn’t necessarily mean that marijuana caused or was even a contributing factor to accidents, traffic violations or fatalities.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Should we ban alcohol because people die in drunk driving accidents?

I will note that you ignoring some substantial points which point out how your study is flawed means you do not want to face the reality of the issue that just because someone had the presence of marijuana in their system doesn’t necessarily mean that marijuana caused or was even a contributing factor to accidents, traffic violations or fatalities.
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So we sacrifice "better" because it's not perfect??
 
faithful_servant said:
My argument was about something that's actually important - people dying:
Study finds fatal crashes in Colorado have risen since legalized marijuana | Colorado Springs Gazette, News
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OMG...

What punditry and LOL at you blind followers.

I just looked at the Colorado DOT fatalities. Before The average fatalities per year for the 2002 to 2008 timeframe is 613.57. The average fatalities for 2009 to 2015 is 479.

Fatalities dropped by 12% with the legalization of weed!

https://www.codot.gov/library/traff...nty/Colorado_Historical_Fatalities_Graphs.pdf

I am one that verifies what others say by trying to root source it.

You guys would be wise to follow suit.
 
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Lord of Planar said:
OMG...

What punditry and LOL at you blind followers.

I just looked at the Colorado DOT fatalities. Before The average fatalities per year for the 2002 to 2008 timeframe is 613.57. The average fatalities for 2009 to 2015 is 479.

Fatalities dropped by 12% with the legalization of weed!

https://www.codot.gov/library/traff...nty/Colorado_Historical_Fatalities_Graphs.pdf

I am one that verifies what others say by trying to root source it.

You guys would be wise to follow suit.
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BAM! A savage right cross drops the Chicken Little Drug Warriors to the mat!
 
All the legalization of pot does is allow our society to get a little bit worse for no benefit. Another avenue for escaping real life and another way to harm other people. People try to justify it, claiming that it's victimless, yet the people who have dies because of it beg to differ. There is no way anyone can honestly state that legalizing pot has made for an overall better society. Yet you will continue to try to justify it based on specious arguments, false comparisons and twisted statistics.
 
faithful_servant said:
All the legalization of pot does is allow our society to get a little bit worse for no benefit. Another avenue for escaping real life and another way to harm other people. People try to justify it, claiming that it's victimless, yet the people who have dies because of it beg to differ. There is no way anyone can honestly state that legalizing pot has made for an overall better society. Yet you will continue to try to justify it based on specious arguments, false comparisons and twisted statistics.
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No offense, but dead people don't have an opinion. They certainly can't speak up to call you out on misrepresenting what their opinions would be if they had them.

Your logic also implies that anything that doesn't better society should be illegal by default, and that anything that causes even a single fatality should also be illegal. That is seriously one ****ed up world you want the rest of us to live in.
 
Who has overdosed on pot? Are you for prohibition as well?

Colorado has actually made a lot of money that has gone to fund many things, including schools and public services, with relatively no uptick in negative consequences. So it has, indeed, benefited society here.
 
faithful_servant said:
All the legalization of pot does is allow our society to get a little bit worse for no benefit.
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Bare assertion that assumes facts not in evidence.
Another avenue for escaping real life and another way to harm other people.
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No, in real life, some people choose to smoke MJ. This seems to upset you to the point where you have to label it 'escaping' while other, more rational people call it 'enjoyment'.
People try to justify it, claiming that it's victimless, yet the people who have dies because of it beg to differ.
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You have not demonstrated that people die from it. Tell me, what's the fatal dosage of MJ? And I notice you've yet to answer if you want Prohibition reintroduced. Why is that?
There is no way anyone can honestly state that legalizing pot has made for an overall better society.
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Yet more hilarious dishonesty. Yes, I can honestly say it makes our society better. For one thing, it frees up LE resources to go after real crimes. It stops breeding contempt for the law. It gives one less reason for harassment of otherwise law-abiding citizens. It frees up jail space and cost for truly violent criminals, and the list just goes on and one.
Yet you will continue to try to justify it based on specious arguments, false comparisons and twisted statistics.
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LOL! Judging on this thread alone, you've offered nothing BUT specious and rankly dishonest arguments.
 
Lord of Planar said:
OMG...

What punditry and LOL at you blind followers.

I just looked at the Colorado DOT fatalities. Before The average fatalities per year for the 2002 to 2008 timeframe is 613.57. The average fatalities for 2009 to 2015 is 479.

Fatalities dropped by 12% with the legalization of weed!

https://www.codot.gov/library/traff...nty/Colorado_Historical_Fatalities_Graphs.pdf

I am one that verifies what others say by trying to root source it.

You guys would be wise to follow suit.
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According to the article you were attempting to refute, the number of fatalities involving drivers who tested positive for marijuana increased significantly.

To quote:

Study finds fatal crashes in Colorado have risen since legalized marijuana | Colorado Springs Gazette, News

"In 2009 when medical marijuana took effect, about 10 percent of all our traffic fatalities were marijuana related," Gorman said. "Now it's 19 percent. You'd have to be in total denial to say this is not related to legalizing marijuana. More people are going to use marijuana, and because of that you're going to have an upward trend in all these areas."​

So, does your data identify influencing factors, or just vehicle fatalities? I believe it's just fatalities overall, in which the noted reduction could be attributed to many things, despite the apparent increase in the number of fatalities where marijuana was found in the bloodstream of the dead.

While you might think you're the one who verifies things, you might want to be a bit more careful during your expedition to root things out.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Colorado survey shows what marijuana legalization will do to your kids

But if we legalize weed all our kids are gonna become lazy pot head hippies! Wait a sec, that prediction isnt materializing? Say it ain't so! [/FONT][/COLOR]
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I was in Colorado for 5 days last week. I didn't see anything different there than anywhere else. Its not over-run by drug crazed hippies and stoned out freaks. Of course, that was what the paranoid anti marijuana people want you to believe.

I visited a dispensary, they were incredibly helpful and nice, I got one pre roll that was very relaxing, and some gummy edibles that do a nice job. I really hope we vote to legalize in Nov in my state, its been hilarious watching the anti marijuana warriors lie and try to scare people.
 
ocean515 said:
According to the article you were attempting to refute, the number of fatalities involving drivers who tested positive for marijuana increased significantly.
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That doesn't mean they were under the influence.

You can easily test positive for THC a month after using. It makes sense that there will be more positives.

Just the same, fatal accidents decreased by 12%.
 
Lord of Planar said:
That doesn't mean they were under the influence.

You can easily test positive for THC a month after using. It makes sense that there will be more positives.

Just the same, fatal accidents decreased by 12%.
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Your claim doesn't mean they weren't. Just going by the numbers. I have no dog in this hunt. Get loaded for all I care, but rationally, there is no way to claim the decline, and passage of legal status are related.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Colorado survey shows what marijuana legalization will do to your kids

But if we legalize weed all our kids are gonna become lazy pot head hippies! Wait a sec, that prediction isnt materializing? Say it ain't so! [/FONT][/COLOR]
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Are you ok with kids smoking pot? You aren't right? So this really isn't something to gloat about. We should reduce the use of drugs and alcohol in underage kids. Leads to all kinds of mental developmental problems.
 
blackjack50 said:
Are you ok with kids smoking pot? You aren't right? So this really isn't something to gloat about. We should reduce the use of drugs and alcohol in underage kids. Leads to all kinds of mental developmental problems.
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Oh boy! I say we hand joints out to all kids! :roll:
Anyways, yes I am against kids using drugs when they are not of age. But news flash, a good chunk will do it anyways, and I was also one of those kids who did so in one way or another. But..... the claims that "if we legalize marijuana then more underagers will use marijuana" has not come to fruition.... In fact rates of underagers using marijuana decreased....
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Oh boy! I say we hand joints out to all kids! :roll:
Anyways, yes I am against kids using drugs when they are not of age. But news flash, a good chunk will do it anyways, and I was also one of those kids who did so in one way or another. But..... the claims that "if we legalize marijuana then more underagers will use marijuana" has not come to fruition.... In fact rates of underagers using marijuana decreased....
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Do you understand the point I'm making? I'm stating that we need to stop with the "it is harmless" mentality. It isn't true. We really should encourage responsible use of any kind of drug, or at the very minimum? Provide the information on what it actually does.
 
blackjack50 said:
Do you understand the point I'm making? I'm stating that we need to stop with the "it is harmless" mentality. It isn't true. We really should encourage responsible use of any kind of drug, or at the very minimum? Provide the information on what it actually does.
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Where did I state that marijuana is "harmless"?
 
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