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CNN: Support for Israel now a liability for Democrats

Dans La Lune said:
Good luck in 2026, AIPAC Dems.
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I just want to remind everyone that Jews controlling all the most powerful organs of government/society is the oldest slander used to justify everything up to and including the Holocaust.

I want to further remind everyone that "but I remembered to say ISRAEL ("AIPAC") is not a complete defense. And you can't claim you're talking about AIPAC specifically until you articulate how AIPAC could possibly be more powerful/convincing than the many more hundreds and HUNDREDS of billions the PAC/Special PAC networks of everyone else pump into our elections....AND the fact that every single country that can tries to influence every other country internally.

It's particularly obscene when a ton of Israelis despise Bibi. And the same Americans who embrace anti-semitic memes would be insulted deeply if they were accused of everything MAGA is doing despite supporting it.




If you think Bibi's going beyond what Israel had a duty to do to protect its citizens justifies those memes.... you could not be more wrong no matter how ****ing moral you think your stance is.

American Jews have generally supported Democrats to the tune of 80-90% because they are not beholden to Israel first. But the more who see people on the left (in which my policy positions put me) casually tossing off anti-semitic shit like it's just common sense, the more that can change. Hopefully that doesn't mean they support MAGA.

But I honestly don't know what I'll do if the lesson Democrats have to take is "I have to blindly oppose Israel and toss off anti-semitic memes to get votes" in order to win.



So, go ahead. Show your epidermis. Or not. But you all need to stop pretending to oppose all ism if you're casually tossing around certain memes, because in that case you only do it situationally.
 
Mr Person said:
I just want to remind everyone that Jews controlling all the most powerful organs of government/society is the oldest slander used to justify everything up to and including the Holocaust.
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I acknowledge that the Jews control the media and the banks are tropes that predate Nazi Germany and were amplified during the Nazi regime. I would acknowledge that pro-Palestinian advocacy, just like pro-Israel advocacy, can transgress lines from being legitimate criticism about Israel (particularly the Likud) and pro-Israel political activism, engendering outright anti-Jewish hostility in the process.

But with that being said, I respectfully push back on the idea it's necessarily antisemitic to point out that there at least seems to be an apparent mismatch between the representation that Israel's advocates have in American society, in government, in popular discourse, as compared to Palestinians or even other Arab nations (or Iranians). Aside from those we've labeled extremists, I don't think I've ever heard a single instance of an American political figure or other prominent figure go into an interview and say "Gaza has a right to defend itself." I mean, maybe I see people like Mehdi Hassan or The Young Turks making that point but these are not particularly influential people beyond their following.

Mr Person said:
I want to further remind everyone that "but I remembered to say ISRAEL ("AIPAC") is not a complete defense. And you can't claim you're talking about AIPAC specifically until you articulate how AIPAC could possibly be more powerful/convincing than the many more hundreds and HUNDREDS of billions the PAC/Special PAC networks of everyone else pump into our elections....AND the fact that every single country that can tries to influence every other country internally.
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With respect to Israeli policy and how the US manages relations with Israel, I would say AIPAC is rather influential. It is certainly not the only factor in terms of US Israeli policy or broader policy in the Middle East region. I'd also point out Jews are not the only Zionists per se; there Christian Zionists. Beyond that, I think US-Israel relations changed significantly after 9/11, which, in a sense, forced the US to view terrorism as something more existential, which is how Israel has seen it for decades. And because groups like Al Qaida either directly or indirectly invoked the plight of the Palestinians and the presence of infidels in holy lands, I think the US and Israel embraced each other in a war against Islam/Arabs. Certainly not all Americans or Israelis felt this or viewed it so, but I think you know what I mean.

Mr Person said:
It's particularly obscene when a ton of Israelis despise Bibi.
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Fully acknowledged, just as tons of Americans despised George W. Bush and now similarly despise Trump. Unfortunately, they have the power, and they use that power in the name of all, and an unfortunate consequence of that is that people on the receiving end of that pain don't always make that distinction. It's perhaps not fair, but it's understandable. I still support Israel to the extent that it needs to defend itself as a free, sovereign nation, but it has gone so far beyond what can be called defense it's sickening. My opinion of Israel has never been as low as it is now. My opinion of my own country is pretty low too, to be honest, but this is my home and I'm probably stuck here. I figure the best I can do is be a moral, decent, law-abiding citizen at least.
 
Mr Person said:
I just want to remind everyone that Jews controlling all the most powerful organs of government/society is the oldest slander used to justify everything up to and including the Holocaust.

I want to further remind everyone that "but I remembered to say ISRAEL ("AIPAC") is not a complete defense. And you can't claim you're talking about AIPAC specifically until you articulate how AIPAC could possibly be more powerful/convincing than the many more hundreds and HUNDREDS of billions the PAC/Special PAC networks of everyone else pump into our elections....AND the fact that every single country that can tries to influence every other country internally.

It's particularly obscene when a ton of Israelis despise Bibi. And the same Americans who embrace anti-semitic memes would be insulted deeply if they were accused of everything MAGA is doing despite supporting it.




If you think Bibi's going beyond what Israel had a duty to do to protect its citizens justifies those memes.... you could not be more wrong no matter how ****ing moral you think your stance is.

American Jews have generally supported Democrats to the tune of 80-90% because they are not beholden to Israel first. But the more who see people on the left (in which my policy positions put me) casually tossing off anti-semitic shit like it's just common sense, the more that can change. Hopefully that doesn't mean they support MAGA.

But I honestly don't know what I'll do if the lesson Democrats have to take is "I have to blindly oppose Israel and toss off anti-semitic memes to get votes" in order win.



So, go ahead. Show your epidermis. Or not. But you all need to stop pretending to oppose all ism if you're casually tossing around certain memes, because in that case you only do it situationally.
Click to expand...
I am not sure I even understand this post. I either refer to Israel or I refer to Bibi depending on whether I want to talk about the leader and the nation. I can't even recall discussing AIPAC. Whether what I post fits someone's idea of an anti semitic 'meme' or not is nothing but coincidence + an active imagination. I am almost never discuss either a Jewish ethnicity, a culture or a religion when I discuss Middle East geopolitics and have no intention of being accused of meaning to. If Israel acts like a bully or a craven opportunist I will say so. If the Israeli population endorse, or enable their govt to be cruel via the ballot box, I will hold them responsible, as long as they democratically elect those decision-makers. Voters should be responsible for who they vote for.

I won't fall into that anti-semitic trap, and I sure as hell won't let anyone else push me into that trap. When I want to refer to Judaism or Jews in a post, I know how to spell those words.
 
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The power of TDS. If Trump is for it, then I'm against it.
 
The next Democratic nominee for President needs to be explicitly anti-Zionist and anti-ICE.

If you can't be against the bombing and starvation of kids, then you're a ****ing coward and I will not and cannot count on you for all the fights ahead against fascism, and for a better economic platform like Universal Healthcare, UBI, 4 day workweek, strengthening labor etc.

If you can't pass such a basic moral litmus test then you are no ally of the working class.
 
Dans La Lune said:


Dem sympathies now see a 56-point swing in favor of Palestinians. Good luck in 2026, AIPAC Dems.
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I guess the next question is, who's a Democrat at this point? I'm not saying that to be a smart-ass, but the party is as weak as it has ever been. I welcome a new Democratic party regime that can bring some balance to the debate/conflict between Israel and Palestine (and the rest of the region for that matter), but being anti-Israel isn't a winning platform. "From the River to the Sea" isn't a winning slogan. I get the sentiment, but it's just not.
 
StillBallin75 said:
The next Democratic nominee for President needs to be explicitly anti-Zionist.
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Hard disagree. Anti-Likud, yes. Anti-Zionist to the point of being anti-Israel (some would argue they're the same, but not sure I do) is not a winning ticket.

I do think it is fair to point out that this right wing government in Israel is inhumane, just as the right-wing government in the United States is inhumane.
 
dmpi said:
The power of TDS. If Trump is for it, then I'm against it.
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Maybe if he stopped killing jobs and Americans I could appreciate his admins more. But I’m a Patriot, so it’s hard.
 
multivita-man said:
Hard disagree. Anti-Likud, yes. Anti-Zionist to the point of being anti-Israel (some would argue they're the same, but not sure I do) is not a winning ticket.

I do think it is fair to point out that this right wing government in Israel is inhumane, just as the right-wing government in the United States is inhumane.
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I don't give a ****. Anti-Israel is the correct position.

The entire state and society should be ostracized, no differently than Russia, or Serbia, or apartheid South Africa.

Zionism is an inherently evil and oppressive movement and the proof is right in front of your very eyes. Even the "left" in Israel are just liberal ethnonationalists.
 
multivita-man said:
Hard disagree. Anti-Likud, yes. Anti-Zionist to the point of being anti-Israel (some would argue they're the same, but not sure I do) is not a winning ticket.

I do think it is fair to point out that this right wing government in Israel is inhumane, just as the right-wing government in the United States is inhumane.
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Bibi did it to himself. Them's the breaks.
 
The Brad Dad said:
Centrists Dems need to realize it’s over.
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Centrism needs to be redefined. Politics is the art of the possible. Compromise where it's possible, not where it's comfortable.
 
multivita-man said:
Centrism needs to be redefined. Politics is the art of the possible. Compromise where it's possible, not where it's comfortable.
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Compromise is fine, I agree with you. The country has 350m people in it, the idea of a purity test is a nonstarter. My own issue with so called centrists is their center increasingly buckles to the right when push comes to shove. I’m one of the folks that believes Harris lost in part due to backing down on being a lefty.
 
The Brad Dad said:
Compromise is fine, I agree with you. The country has 350m people in it, the idea of a purity test is a nonstarter. My own issue with so called centrists is their center increasingly buckles to the right when push comes to shove. I’m one of the folks that believes Harris lost in part due to backing down on being a lefty.
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She had Walz, she shelved him; she toured with billionaires instead.
 
reinaert said:
She had Walz, she shelved him; she toured with billionaires instead.
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I like Walz but people need to remember the VP doesn’t tend to move the needle overall. The Liz Cheney Superfriends tour was a god awful decision. If Republicans want to endorse Dems, go hold their own town halls or whatever. Dems need to be super clear to American voters where they stand. Gaza isn’t about Jews or Palestinians, it’s about genocide. Trans people are Americans looking to pursue happiness. These are fundamental values we all have, we just need to express it in a manner of inclusivity. But first and foremost: money. Everyone is tired of this garbage rigged system.
 
Mr Person said:
I just want to remind everyone that Jews controlling all the most powerful organs of government/society is the oldest slander used to justify everything up to and including the Holocaust.

I want to further remind everyone that "but I remembered to say ISRAEL ("AIPAC") is not a complete defense. And you can't claim you're talking about AIPAC specifically until you articulate how AIPAC could possibly be more powerful/convincing than the many more hundreds and HUNDREDS of billions the PAC/Special PAC networks of everyone else pump into our elections....AND the fact that every single country that can tries to influence every other country internally.

It's particularly obscene when a ton of Israelis despise Bibi. And the same Americans who embrace anti-semitic memes would be insulted deeply if they were accused of everything MAGA is doing despite supporting it.




If you think Bibi's going beyond what Israel had a duty to do to protect its citizens justifies those memes.... you could not be more wrong no matter how ****ing moral you think your stance is.

American Jews have generally supported Democrats to the tune of 80-90% because they are not beholden to Israel first. But the more who see people on the left (in which my policy positions put me) casually tossing off anti-semitic shit like it's just common sense, the more that can change. Hopefully that doesn't mean they support MAGA.

But I honestly don't know what I'll do if the lesson Democrats have to take is "I have to blindly oppose Israel and toss off anti-semitic memes to get votes" in order to win.



So, go ahead. Show your epidermis. Or not. But you all need to stop pretending to oppose all ism if you're casually tossing around certain memes, because in that case you only do it situationally.
Click to expand...

I'm actually saying that Jews are not supporting Israel's action, and actually have formed a coalition with Zohran Mamdani in New York.

 
Dans La Lune said:
I'm actually saying that Jews are not supporting Israel's action, and actually have formed a coalition with Zohran Mamdani in New York.

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I think the correct answer is that Jews are not a monolith. No ethnicity is.

I can't say I haven't occasionally let my outrage get the better of me. We live in times of perpetual outrage, on our own soils and outrages from many thousands of miles away.
 
Dans La Lune said:


Dem sympathies now see a 56-point swing in favor of Palestinians. Good luck in 2026, AIPAC Dems.
Click to expand...

Its actually a mutual power play. The US uses Israel to project American power in the middle east.
 
Democrats have always been the party of anti-Jesus, anti-Serb, anti-Israel, anti-Russia rootless cosmopolitans.
 
multivita-man said:
@StillBallin75

Should Israel be eliminated? I don't think that's what you're saying, but I can't let that question go unanswered.
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The basis of the question is flawed. It is Palestine that is the fake country. (Palestine is as fake as Ukraine, Kosovo, or Bosnia.)
 
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